A broad, smooth and wet gold-nibbed pen under $250?

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

11 hours ago, MHBru said:

coming in late on this conversation but I also vote in favor of Lamy 2000 med or broad depending on how broad you want it.  A Lamy medium is nearly a Pelikan broad and a Lamy broad is damn near a sharpie.  I agree that the M200/400 series is lovely but they are much smaller pens.  If your budget was high enough to get an M800 series then it's an entirely different ball game.

 

If that's the case then Lamy sounds perfect! Yeah, the M805 is just divine. I actually got to hold a M1000 before and it's pretty comfortable for my medium small hands! I guess that's going to be in my college years haha.

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

7 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

 '50-70 is a great balanced semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex Medium-Large pen.I lucked into a maxi-semi-flex.  Better balanced than the large 146.

 

For a Large pen the 146 had  not too shabby balance. Fairly light and fairly nimble. The medium-large 146 is the better pen.

 

Great balance in a Large pen is  the thin, Snorkel. It's thinness balances the length for one of the very few Large pens with balance.

To tell the truth I was shocked the Snorkel was a large pen; when I accidentally lay it next to a Safari. I had thought it a medium-large pen because of its great balance.

 

The modern '70-90's is a Large pen, my two have regular flex nibs an eyeballed F and a BB stub. I don't know what the newer 146's have for nib flex rate..

 

 

I shall look at them vintage pens! @carola is right, too many options!

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

3 hours ago, carola said:

A friend of mine also has a Lamy 2000 with a BB nib. I love broad nibs, but that one is so broad, you need a big sheet of paper for a short note. Before that, I would never have thought a BB nib would be definitely too broad to be a daily writer for me, but I was very happy to learn that lesson before I purchased mine.

 

Seems that the BB is good for short letters! 

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

2 hours ago, gyasko said:

 

 

I disagree with the notion that a modern pen is always the less complicated option.  When i first got into fountain pens, i went right for modern Pelikans.  I heard all the same things you folks are saying now: wet, smooth, reliable, etc.  

 

That wasn't my experience.   I was looking for smooth broad nibs with generous flow.  The m800s i received  were bad writers: they had inconsistent flow and skipped.  One wouldn’t even write out of the box.  Would not write!  That is, it was a complete failure as a pen.  I would never recommend a modern Pelikan to someone who wasn’t prepared to tinker with the nib.

 

 In contrast, when i got my first vintage 400, it wrote wet and smooth from day one.  I still have that one, years later.  I still haven’t had a problem on a vintage Pelikan as bad as that modern one that wouldn’t even write.   

 

 

 

I guess that the reason why Vintage pens write better than modern ones is because the former are already adjusted while the latter are out of the box. Just my two cents. 

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 hour ago, Detman101 said:

My vintage eyedropper Swan is a gusher.
Flexing that noodly thing puts enough ink on the page to soak through on some papers.

Are you using a dry ink in the Swan or a wet one. It has no buffering of later '30's + feeds.

4001 Blue Black....can't be got in the states, try another of the 4001 inks, outside the new dull green, for a dry ink.

One of the R&K IG inks perhaps.

 

Do you post the old Swan like it was designed to be...then it is not 'too small'....too thin perhaps.

Many refuse to post and then complain it is too small....it is when it is....un-posted.

[Aysedasi]

12 hours ago, MHBru said:

A Lamy medium is nearly a Pelikan broad and a Lamy broad is damn near a sharpie.  

 

I love broad nibs but the L2K broad was too big for me as an everyday writer.  I have a medium and it writes a lovely broad.....

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

4 minutes ago, Aysedasi said:

 

I love broad nibs but the L2K broad was too big for me as an everyday writer.  I have a medium and it writes a lovely broad.....

 

Interesting! Seems that it's either a Lamy 2k M or B for me then!  Although I think I'll be getting the Medium.

[sansenri]

10 hours ago, amk said:

Sorry for not replying earlier, had roofing issues to sort out... Yes, Lamy runs w-i-d-e.

 

And I have a Lamy BB nib. 🙂 It could join the fire department tomorrow. 

 

And I thought my B was a firehose...  BB must be like the whole brigade...

[Detman101]

4 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

Are you using a dry ink in the Swan or a wet one. It has no buffering of later '30's + feeds.

4001 Blue Black....can't be got in the states, try another of the 4001 inks, outside the new dull green, for a dry ink.

One of the R&K IG inks perhaps.

 

Do you post the old Swan like it was designed to be...then it is not 'too small'....too thin perhaps.

Many refuse to post and then complain it is too small....it is when it is....un-posted.

 

I use a fairly wet ink, "Iroshizuku Tsukushi" in it. I could indeed tame it with a dry ink 🤔 if I actually used it. I prefer to keep ink in it after wondering if leaving it empty would damage it or dry it out as the whole pen is ebonite minus the 18k gold nib and trimmings on the cap.

Also, you are right, the pen is too THIN for my hands. I post it when I do write with it, but I prefer the girth of my Opus-88 Demonstrator or larger sized pens.
My Penbbs-355 pens are on the bottom end of what's acceptable for me. Anything thinner than those, I can't use.
 

[essayfaire]

On 3/8/2021 at 4:17 PM, sansenri said:

Wet pens, get a Pelikan.

With $250 your're short of an M600 with an M or B nib, but check for any special deals.

The Macrolon Lamy 2000 with an M (the B is a BB!) is also a good choice.

 

If you want a wet pen, the Japanese are not your pens of choice.

 

btw, I also often use Bock steel nibs B size in any pen that takes Bock (Ranga for example) exactly for fast writing (wet and heavy flow to cope with very fast writing),

I agree about the Pelikans.  The M200s aren't gold but write very smoothly and are in your price category; my gold nibs are (mostly) Japanese pens.

[sansenri]

more on the Lamy 2K nibs here, just for more references to size

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/358727-the-pain-and-agony-of-lamy-2000-nibs-the-m-is-too-broad/?tab=comments#comment-4411223

[hari317]

OBB is my favorite nib on the Lamy 2000. Some pics here:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/325098-welcome-to-the-broad-side/?do=findComment&comment=4293762

 

[hari317]

I am quite surprised to read that the 3776 Music nib was found not wet enough. My experience has been the opposite across several examples of this nib and the Cosu C width.

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

23 minutes ago, hari317 said:

I am quite surprised to read that the 3776 Music nib was found not wet enough. My experience has been the opposite across several examples of this nib and the Cosu C width.

 

I think the sample cartridge is to blame. 

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

So I'm 95% with the Lamy 2000 M but I recently looked at the Pilot Custom 823 and they have a Broad! The price is good too! What do you guys think about the Pilot 823 Broad nib?

 

[hari317]

The 823 and the 743 share the same nib. the 743 has more variety of point sizes. There is also the 845 with a two tone 18K nib IIRC.

 

I have tried all the nib tip sizes that Pilot has to offer.

 

Pilot 823 B is decidedly narrow.

 

On Pilot, you need either a BB or a C or a Music. Their Sutab (stub) is again a dry nib IME.

[Teterman2005]

I’ve never tried an 823 (or really any pilot except for the metropolitan), but I’d recommend you try one first.  Mainly because Japanese nibs are definitely finer than the European pens I’ve tried.  My sailor 1911s (actually a promenade, same difference) in M writes like a Fine Pelikan m205.  An 823 broad “might” feel like an ordinary M to you, and might not get the wet-broad lines it sounds like you’re looking for.

 

As for vintage pens (mine are mostly sheaffers), a M nib is pretty darn wet, lays a thicker line, etc, and I swapped to Pelikan 4000 black ink to fight feathering on cheap paper.

 

My Sailor Zoom on the other hand.... wow.  The Pelikan ink keeps the feathering in check (amazingly so given how wet the pen can write) and I can write big ‘ole fat lines like a sharpie.  Raise the pen slightly more vertical and it writes like a normal M.  Flip it over and it writes like an XXF

 

[Teterman2005]

15 minutes ago, hari317 said:

 

On Pilot, you need either a BB or a C or a Music. Their Sutab (stub) is again a dry nib IME

I agree, the OP might want to give a music, BB, or stub a try.  I bought a cheapie calligraphy stub before I knew anything about fountain pens, and it got me hooked.

 

After writing with a bunch of vintage pens (mostly Ms with a few Fs), I realized I tend to prefer the character and flow of the broader/super broad nibs.... but I write really big 😜

[Le.Pen.Supremo]

23 minutes ago, hari317 said:

The 823 and the 743 share the same nib. the 743 has more variety of point sizes. There is also the 845 with a two tone 18K nib IIRC.

 

I have tried all the nib tip sizes that Pilot has to offer.

 

Pilot 823 B is decidedly narrow.

 

On Pilot, you need either a BB or a C or a Music. Their Sutab (stub) is again a dry nib IME.

 

The 823 broad is finer than a Lamy M?

[Bo Bo Olson]

4 hours ago, JamesVanderCalvinist said:

So I'm 95% with the Lamy 2000 M but I recently looked at the Pilot Custom 823 and they have a Broad! The price is good too! What do you guys think about the Pilot 823 Broad nib?

 

The Japanese Broad is very close to if not a western M.......all Japanese pens are miss-marked a full size; in they have a tiny printed script, and not flowing cursive.

Japanese pens didn't hit the mainstream until the very late '90's or early 2000's....so it hadn't mattered as a local only pen, they were sized so different.

In many now, started with Japanese, they think that is the proper width and a western EF is fat F............and complain.

Course it could be they are printers instead of writers too.