Thoughts on possible pens for investment ?

[jchch1950]

To buy something thinking on the resale value is a risky position. I as a collector I buy what I will enjoy and use. Speculation can be a way to earn income, but I prefer to value the enjoyment a pen, ink or paper will give me.

[txomsy]

I've refrained from posting here since day 1, but nevertheless...

 

Investment, any investment, is, has always been and will always be a risky business. There is no way one can predict future other than self-fulfilling profecies, and those do not yield any benefit, quite the opposite.

 

If one has to invest, that is the first and foremost consideration.

 

Then, value. It will depend on a number of factors, like demand, as already mentioned, some of them driven by others in turn (like demand on fashion, fashion on cycles, etc...). So, one has also to know that and factor it.

 

Anything desired now will likely not be after some period. So either you buy for short selling (with probably little benefit) or you have the capacity to store it long enough for its value to come up again after it goes out of the market, and can guarantee you will have no need for income until its value returns. Thus, either you have a large reserve of money (or money sources, don't put all your eggs in the same basket) or you risk having to undersell it.

 

If you go long term, you need to factor inflation. And that is even more difficult to predict. You can expect some "stability", but you can also have a new war (like now on Ukraine or any day in Korea, or Taiwan) and prices rise so fast that all your benefits disappear.

 

You may also try to game the market, use marketing (more or less aggressive) to create a necessity and demand (real or fake), but then, again, you need deep pockets to astroturf the Net, flood media with ads, or whatever.

 

There are more factors. So one has to know economics, politics and marketing too. That is a second consideration.

 

But, for any of this to work, you need a workable product to start with. A marketing campaign may work for a few sells until buyers discover it is a scam. If there is a demand, your offer needs to be better than that of others. Etc... So, when investing you also need to be able to predict what people in the future will want or may be induced to want, and that it will be scarce, desirable and attractive enough for buyers to pay.

 

In other words, you need to know the product in depth so you can be selective at buying and attractive at selling. That's the most important consideration.

 

If you are "just and investor" and do not know or do not care to know a product, you should also remember that ignorance may be bliss but expensive, and therefore, knowledge is worth conversely. And you, as an unknowing investor, should be ready to pay for assessors to help you (i.e. share your benefit with other partakers in the enterprise). It is (qualifier omitted, fill in your own one) to come to others and ask everybody to do your work for you so you can get rich at their expense for free.

 

As for FPs... if one is to invest, one has to consider what -if any- pens may be worth something in the selling horizon. Short term is likely the less risky, and also the less productive, and is the one that requires deeper knowledge of the product (FPs).

 

Long term, anything will eventually be valuable, if you wait long enough. Even a broken piece of clay, after 5000 years. OTOH...

 

While in Florence last week, at the Accademia Gallery, in one section a tourist asked the warden if any of those pieces could be bought. Well, of course not, they are considered National Heritage. But even if they were, current legislation in many countries forbids any Heritage item being carried out of the country and requires the owner a heavy investment in keeping it in perfect conditions, making it accessible for display to the public a minimum of time a year, and imposes heavy restrictions on any downstream selling.

 

So, if you get a FP, once it is some time (cannot say, maybe >100years) old, beautiful enough or rare enough or culturally interesting, it becomes a Historical Artifact, and as soon as the government knows of its existence will enter it in the Catalog of Heritage. Which puts a cap on what you can "traffic" with and a serious burden on the owner. Unless you decide to hide in the black market, which has its own additional burdens and risks.

 

Note that buying one now for your own enjoyment is not forbidden, but as soon as you want to go public, you need to be prepared.

 

It is not that investing in FPs is a bad idea. But you need to know the business, know about FPs in depth, have deep pockets, and be ready to take the risks.

 

Let's do an exercise:

 

The Montblanc Calligraphy Flex could be bought up to last year. It is highly demanded now and if you got one, you might expect to get over with maybe 1.5-2 times the original price now. Considering current economy, would it be possible? There are likely much less buyers. If you get less, would it cover inflation? And in six months? Given demand, what if Montblanc decides to make another pen with a flex nib, in a different, LE design? What if a new Montblanc Calligraphy pen (with, say, an italic nib) attracts all attention and suddenly nobody wants any longer a difficult to use flex pen and prefer italics? Your "investment" would suddenly be 1.5-2 times less worth.

 

I agree, it is probably not worth the hassle for the average person, but IMMHO for heavy investors who know what they do, have good lawyers, advisors and a good marketing, it might (just might) be a marginal diversification investment.

[Bo Bo Olson]

A fine post!

I've been here on the com, through a depression and a recession and a world wide infatuation phase.... Being in Germany I missed the continuous to me high US inflation.

15 years ago, the last time I was in the States,  I was shocked at the high price of US groceries, as use to as I was to high German prices....that suddenly weren't.

 

I do notice how much more a pen can be sold for in the US than in Europe. I've stated a common vintage 400 goes for @€100 on the auction section of German Ebay......and for @ $285 in US Buy Now,.....could be last years price, and it could be lower now no one has any money due to inflation.

 

My P-75 was once worth $225 some 15 years ago when I got started in this addiction. In the Depression, I could kick my self had I wanted to invest in a $75 P-75................but I had one. There were 'other pens' I "needed",

 

Investments need to be watched....work, to know when to sell high.....and having all those NOS pens just sitting around is rather boring....with gold cons one can look at the front and back....You did buy proof coins? Right?

 

 I was chasing either various nibs, and or them with a pretty pen attached.........I missed buying investment pens...........

 

Invest in a Toyota car............my last one ran 24 years.........the one I just bought will run until they get rid of the gas stations. I don't trust battery cars, they burst into flames unexpectedly and the fire companies have to bring a container to put them in because they can't put out the fire. If one runs a paid for car for 20 years, that is a great investment.

 

 

[txomsy]

Added: which just does not mean one cannot get rich buying and selling fountain pens.

 

One of the museums I visited in Florence (and another amazing one by the way) was that of Stefano Bardini. Turns out he started out as a painter but had a nose for antiques. As he was commissioned to overhaul old houses whose furniture was deemed worthless, and met more patrons and dealers he could create an impressive collection, and at times auctioned parts at a nice profit on major auction houses (like Christie's at NY) to hugely wealthy Art collectors. One has to see the museum to get an idea of the dimensions.

 

The point is: if you know, build connections, hunt discarded items, can value undervalued goods at their actual value, can get them on car sales or at cheap prices, build a collection and at the right moment sell the right items at the right place to the right people, you may have a chance of making a nice profit and maybe even a life.

 

But -as Stefano did- you need to know, work hard and build your contact network, invest wisely, make a name for yourself, wait for the opportunity, jump at it and, even so, probably also you also need to be lucky.

[JulieParadise]

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

Added: which just does not mean one cannot get rich buying and selling fountain pens.

[...]

But -as Stefano did- you need to know, work hard and build your contact network, invest wisely, make a name for yourself, wait for the opportunity, jump at it and, even so, probably also you also need to be lucky.

 

Wisely said, because what you described is just ... work. Dedicated, long term, patient work. (I needed to look up Stefano Bardini: Wow! So interesting, thank you!)

[Bo Bo Olson]

1 hour ago, txomsy said:

at the right moment sell the right items at the right place to the right people,

Buy low, sell high, and don't hold until you end up selling lower than you bought.

..........

 

I buy high, and sell low...timing is everything in this world.

That and having junk that is more than junk.

 

 

[Inkoherent]

I've never understood the concept of investing in things that are manufactured as collectables.  If you think about it, a lot of valuable antiques or collectables are valuable because no one valued them that extraordinarily when they were new.  So they were used until they wore out or were too dinged up, or they were put aside and forgotten when they became obsolescent  or unfashionable.  I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, such as fancy overlay pens, but by and large, I'm guessing that only a small fraction of the Conklin Crescents or Waterman Safeties that were made are still around, while  in 100 years there will probably be about 15,998 Montblanc Virginia Woolfs, most of them in cosseted near mint condition.

[Inkoherent]

On 2/14/2021 at 12:38 PM, silverlifter said:

 

Conids... scarcity + demand = kerching! 😛

On 2/14/2021 at 1:54 PM, zaddick said:

Until they start making them again. 

On 2/14/2021 at 2:34 PM, silverlifter said:

 

Assuming they do, of course...

 

Mark your calendars...

https://www.conidpen.com/upcoming-release-minimalistica/

[como]

Hey this post is quite alive again! Pens are not good investments, but they are fun! If the wife asks if handbags are good investments, what would you say? You are joking, right? No.... you don't say that. You say, yes sure, they look lovely 😃.

[inkstainedruth]

14 hours ago, Inkoherent said:

I've never understood the concept of investing in things that are manufactured as collectables.  If you think about it, a lot of valuable antiques or collectables are valuable because no one valued them that extraordinarily when they were new.  So they were used until they wore out or were too dinged up, or they were put aside and forgotten when they became obsolescent  or unfashionable.  I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions, such as fancy overlay pens, but by and large, I'm guessing that only a small fraction of the Conklin Crescents or Waterman Safeties that were made are still around, while  in 100 years there will probably be about 15,998 Montblanc Virginia Woolfs, most of them in cosseted near mint condition.

I keep thinking about the stories on the news a few years ago about the "Beanie Babies bubble"... and how people who bought them as "investments" (rather than as "collectibles") lost their shirts when the "bubble" bust.  Me?  I have a few that I bought (mostly for a couple of bucks -- and most of those to give away) because I thought they were cute.  And I remember the "Cabbage Patch doll" craze before that -- my neighbor got up super early to go to some store that was getting a shipment in to get her daughter the "right" one for Christmas -- my mother thought she was nuts, and I'm not sure I disagree with my mom's assessment.  And I say that as the person who will get up at 0 dark 30 on a Saturday to get go to an estate sale on the hope that some pens shown in photos be ones I MIGHT want to buy, and get there before the "pickers" do....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

edited for typos

[Bo Bo Olson]

My pyramid is coming right along. I've ordered the first brick. I'm taking everything with me. Sadly when Indiana Jones opens up the vault....the plastic pen bodies will have crumbled.

[Mercian]

2 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

My pyramid is coming right along. I've ordered the first brick. I'm taking everything with me. Sadly when Indiana Jones opens up the vault....the plastic pen bodies will have crumbled.

…apart from the ones of your 1950s Parker “51”s…

 

…and, if Dr. Jones can successfully pry them out of your cold, dead hands, he may even find that he only needs to give them a quick flush in order to get them working again!

 

Oh, wait a minute…

 

…on second thoughts, no:

 

that is what he’s going to find when he manages to get the lid off my sarcophagus… 😉

[sandy101]

3 hours ago, Bo Bo Olson said:

My pyramid is coming right along. I've ordered the first brick. I'm taking everything with me. Sadly when Indiana Jones opens up the vault....the plastic pen bodies will have crumbled.

Ball points. Why did it have to be ball points?!

[Toolattack]

Can we all agree that ink is a very ‘liquid’ investment? 😂🤣😂🤣

[Bo Bo Olson]

MB Racing Green went from being the most hated ink in the world (15 years ago all things MB but the empty ink bottle were well hated on this com.), to most beloved ink in the world after it's discontinuance, to having two bottles can send your kid to two years of Yale.

 

There I was with a car, a  MX-5 in Racing Green, with the bottle of MB Racing Green  in my hand, that I as noobie was going to follow all the advice and empty it down the sink..............so decided to try brown instead....how was I to know MB Sepia wasn't 'brown' ...to me it was sorta.

Good enough I paid €19 plus postage for a discontinued €12 bottle of ink.........€12 was the price new of all MB 50ml inks. €13 was the price for the new shoe with 60ml. .....and at €23 I find it a rip off well over any body's inflation rate............how ever they had to keep up with the Jones; Japanese inks, Graf v FC, and C d'A inks.

 

30ml Pelikan 4001 was going for €3.50+.

 

Some day someone will talk about the cheap priced inks of today...............buy now, in bulk lots.

[txomsy]

You have got a point @Bo Bo Olson:

 

I was thinking... "luckily, I prefer all-metal pens". Maybe the feeder would vanish, but the rests would give up everything else when they find my ashes...

 

Then, I remembered old weapons from the bronze or iron age... not even metal goods will survive time.

 

But inks...

 

Now, there, Altamira or Lascaux still show pretty well the paintings after 10-30 000 years. And other artifacts preserve ink marks for even longer.

 

Maybe ink is a better investment. And for that, the results of using the ink. Some IG inks can survive the substrate they were applied to (or, in other words, protect from degradation the parts of the substrate they bound to). The only problem is one will not be around 30 000 years from now, when it has become invaluable, to collect the profits. But at least one might be pretty confident to have made a really good long-term investment

 

 

[inkstainedruth]

On 3/31/2023 at 5:38 PM, sandy101 said:

Ball points. Why did it have to be ball points?!

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Lamy4life]

Yeah, I agree with the sentiment of pens being a bad monetary investment. 

It reminds me a bit of the Hermes Birkin world, the bags do go up in value but they don't seem to be that stable long term. Certain variants go for more based on trends.  keep in mind I don't know that much about the Birkin Economy. 

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

10 hours ago, Lamy4life said:

Hermes Birkin world, the bags do go up in value but they don't seem to be that stable long term

I watched a small program part on German TV, some woman won a Hermes used pocketbook at a live auction for only €25,000 and she was happy.

[txomsy]

Some people simply has too much money and do not know what to do with it. That's a way to expend it like any other, I suppose. After all, beyond some quantity, everything else is anyway superficial or unnecessary.