OHTO Fude Ball 1.5

[drgt]

As they are not available where I live and to have them shipped is costly, I wonder if someone managed to refill them and cares to share the method and ink used.

 

Thanks

[dipper]

Your photo of an OHTO Fude Ball pen looks almost a clone of my Uni-ball "eye" rollerball pens. Except for the massive size of the ball tip on the OHTO, and the painted design on the pen body, every other feature of the pen and tip and cap look identical.

 

So, my method of refilling Uni-ball pens may work with the OHTO.

 

After careful experiments at lower temperatures this is my current method:

Set kitchen fan oven to 105 degrees Centigrade (or 221 Fahrenheit) and leave for half an hour to stabilise.

Remove pen cap and put that aside.

Loosely wrap pen in a paper kitchen towel and place into the oven, laid flat on an oven rack. Leave pen in oven to bake for 15 minutes.

Open the top of a bottle of ink and place next to the oven.

Remove wrapped pen from the oven.

Hold the hot pen, still in its wrapping, above the ink bottle and allow the pen to slide out of the wrapping directly into the ink bottle.

(The aim here is to get the working end of the pen submerged in the ink as quickly as possible before the pen begins to cool down.)

Leave the pen standing in the ink bottle for a few minutes.

 

In the oven, traces of ink inside the pen will partially vaporise, driving out air, and also a few inky spatters that the paper towel will absorb.

As the pen cools in the ink bottle the water vapour inside the pen will condense and atmospheric pressure will drive ink from the bottle into the pen.

 

Previously I have sucessfully filled Uni-ball roller pens with Waterman fountain pen ink, and also with distilled water (to make a dilute ink in the pen).

Currently I am using three Uni-balls all refilled with W&N Black drawing ink (a shellac based "Indian Ink"). All three were filled in one pen-baking session on 21 Feb 2021. Now 20 March and all three pens are still working very well - actually giving cleaner darker crisper lines with less bleed through than the excellent original Uni-ball ink.

 

Early experiments started at lower temperatures, including placing pens in simmering water. Those tests also worked but gave less ink suck-up than the oven baking method.

 

I also tried microwaving one pen in a bowl of water..... Not good. It turns out that the paintwork on the pen body is metalic, and it blisters in the microwave.

 

I know this method sounds ridiculous. Frankly, I was amazed myself when it worked.

 

If the OHTO pens are made from a different type of plastic then you may find the 105 deg C oven method destroys an empty pen. But if the only other option is to throw it into the waste bin ......🙄

 

The pens refilled with distilled water worked OK, but I found the results unappealing. So I emptied those pens and refilled with ink. Emptying was achieved by wrapping in two paper towels before the standard oven bake. In the oven all the water in the pens emptied itself into the absorbent towels.

[drgt]

I expected some syringe - needle approach, baking it, would not have thought of!!!

 

I appreciate your sharing that info, and you are right, if it does not work, it would be a throw away anyway.

 

Because  of the massive tip, I think if I use a regular FP ink, it would write all over the place. I am not familiar of those shellac inks you mentioned. Can you provide some info on those?

 

Thanks again!

[dipper]

As described in the article linked below, the name "Indian Ink" or "India Ink" covers a quite a few different types of ink.

 

The successful refill that I did with Uni-ball "eye" rollerball pens was intended as a test to destruction, choosing the thickest, densest, most waterproof, fountain-pen-destroying ink that I have in stock: Winsor & Newton Black Indian Ink - the one with the black spider on the label. This stuff dries like glossy black varnish. (I love it in dip pens.)

As I said previously, the result that all three pens are still working superbly one month later is a complete surprise.

 

 

Confusion... confusion...

 

W&N also make "Liquid Indian Ink" with a Chinese Dragon design on the label. That ink is not waterproof. That is not the ink used in my refill tests.

 

W&N have recently changed the labelling of the waterproof Black Indian Ink. (At least for me in the UK). My bottle purchased in 2020 has all references to India or Indian omitted from box and bottle. Only the famous ten-legged spider remains! Plus the small-print on the box lid.

 

Other inks that may give equivalent results include Stephens Black Indian Ink, and DrPh Martin's Bombay Black India Ink. I know from past use that those two are similar dense shellac bound waterproof inks.

 

https://www.winsornewton.com/na/articles/colours/spotlight-on-indian-ink/

 

https://www.cultpens.com/i/q/WN68040/winsor--newton-drawing-ink-14ml

 

https://www.atlantisart.co.uk/dr-ph-martins-bombay-india-ink-black/

[sciumbasci]

Fountain pen ink will definetly not work. 

I tried refilling Pilot V5 back when the cartridge version wasn't available: my first attempts in doing so were... crude, and the results, disappointing. I yanked the tip out and filled the barrel with Waterman Encre Noir. I soon found however, that the type and wetness of the ink meat was a critical factor. As is, the ink was too dry for the rollerball, and although it wrote, the ball squeaked at every movement. The best results came adding dish washing soap to a full fill (one drop from a toothpick), however it caused the ink to broaden when laid down, making it near useless. 

Perhaps iron gall with adequate amount of surfactants may work. I never cared to check. 

[dipper]

That result by sciumbasci does make sense.

 

The W&N Indian Ink, that worked well as a rollerball refill ink, is almost "oily" in the way that it flows and lubricates.

 

Unlike adding soap though, the Indian Ink does not bleed or feather on standard office copier paper.

 

 

 

 

[drgt]

Quote

...I think if I use a regular FP ink, it would write all over the place...

I used FP ink in the past to fill a Pilot G2 1.0 refill and although it wrote just fine, it was at least 1.5 times broader than with the original ink.

Not to mention feathering and bleeding...

 

 

Great!

I will give W&N Indian Ink a try if I can find it.

 

What were the point sizes of the pens you filled?

[Chthulhu]

The Fude Ball pen uses a pigmented, water-based ink. Perhaps the Platinum Carbon ink would be suitable?

https://www.jetpens.com/Platinum-Carbon-Ink-Black-60-ml-Bottle/pd/3461

 

[drgt]

Here and here is a ...generous amount of the Winsor & Newton Black Indian Ink!!!

 

@dipper

Here is a non ...oven method for the V5.

[dipper]

Drgt,

My refilled rollerballs are all Uni-ball "eye" fine tip.

 

The "non-oven" method (youtube video) is a Uni-ball eye pen. Thank for the link. I did view that video a few weeks ago, before experimenting with alternative methods. When the steel jaw pliers came on screen and grabbed the poor little plastic pen parts I began to feel quite queasy!

 

A custom made tool could perhaps pull the second plastic tip part out without damage? I may try to make something.

 

Any method that involves disassembly carries some risks of damage and mess, but also has a few advantages such as the ability to flush the feed regulator parts, and refill into the body of the pen without saturating the feed fins in ink.

[drgt]

In the absence of special tool, you can use a piece of bike tire inner tube to cushion the pliers grip.

Where applicable, a string with a noose could be used to yank out a part.

[dipper]

Progress update at 20 April 2021.

 

Three Uniball eye pens, previously refilled with W&N Black Indian Ink, are still working well.

 

The ink refill are lasting such a long time that I have emptied only two of the three pens in two months of regular use. Hoping to empty the third pen fairly soon and try a further oven-bake refill experiment. (The OTTO 1.5mm fude rollerball, that is the main subject of this discussion thread would consume its ink fill more rapidly of course.)

 

Found the home website of OTTO in Japan. Really excellent translation english language pages. Here is the link to the page for the 1.5mm fude ball.

 

https://www.ohto.co.jp/english/product/cfr150fb/

 

Points of interest:

All the types of plastic used are listed. If anyone here is a polymer chemist we could deduce the max safe oven-bake temperature?

Writing line distance is stated as 600m.

Ink is described as "pigment" ink. That suggests Indian Ink refills may be more repeatable than if the pen was actually designed for a dye based ink.

A long cap-off safe time is claimed. (With OHTO original ink of course.) Recently I happen to have tested that same feature with Indian Ink/Uniball eye. My refilled pen #1 was nearly empty - cap off and left laid flat on desktop for seven days to allow tip to dry. After seven days the pen tip rolled about 2mm on paper before starting to work perfectly again! No signs of crusting, seizing of the ball, or thickening of the dribble of ink held in the pen's ink reservoir.

 

 

Edited April 20, 2021 by dipper
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[dipper]

Progress update at 25 April 2021:

 

Key result.... Oven baking refill method can be used for some number of repeat refillings with water soluble inks (=F.Pen inks),

but only once with waterproof indian ink!  Full story below...

 

At long last I have used up all the W&N indian ink in three Uniball eye rollerballs. So can now do a second refill test.

Three pens individually wrapped in paper and fan-oven baked for 35 minutes at 120 deg C (248 deg F).

Result found: Pens all firmly glued into their paper tubes by the traces of ink ejected during bake!

Shellac gunk peeled and cleaned off externally fairly easily. But blobs of black ink inside the pens look a bit dry and crispy...

Perhaps a water flush would be a good idea?

Pens heated and then inverted into a jam-jar half full of distilled water. All three filled themselves with crystal clear water. The dry ink inside the pens did not dissolve into the water at all.

 

Previously, using dye-based FP ink, oven baking to flush and refill a second or third time did not show this problem.

For repeat refills with indian ink we will need to find a safe and effective cold refill technique. That is worth more experiments in the future, because I really enjoyed using the indian ink refilled pens.

 

Meanwhile, what to do with the three internally shellac encrusted pens? ....... A maximum oven temperature bake to destruction!

I tried 10 minutes at 140 deg C (284 deg F).

Pen bodies bent like liquorice sticks. Feed fins, visible through the walls of the grip section, began to warp and crumple. And the roller tips fell out...🤓.

Conclusion: 105 to 115 deg C seems to be a safe and effective baking temperature. 140 deg C is way too hot.

---------------------------------

 

So now my latest carry-everywhere pen is a brand new Uniball eye, with original Uniball ink.  Sigh... It is an excellent pen, with excellent Uniball ink, but seems rather timid in comparison to the bold fat juicy black indian ink I have been using recently in the three ex-pens.

 

[dipper]

Another refilling test. This one uses no oven heating - it is an upside-down eyedropper rollerball. So, could be used for repeat fills with Indian Ink.

[dipper]

.... and another method. This one is the easiest and most effective so far.

 

 

[drgt]

Amazing work.

Excellent handwriting

Awesome graphics

 

Bravo!

[ColinK]

This trick doesn't work with the Uni-Ball, so the baking/screwing method seems to be required for them -- but for the Fude Ball, there's something much more quick and easy : if you look at the black plastic part holding the nib at the tip of the pen, you'll see a step. It's because on the Fude, that black plastic part is actually two plastic parts. Take a a rubber band (or maybe your fingers if they're grippy enough), and pull on the nib of the pen. It'll come out along a little black rod that fits in the feed, much like a Preppy. You can then refill it by plunging a syringe through the feed.

 

Right now I'm trying out some rOtring drawing ink in mine, which is less prone to bleedthrough than the original, but about as black and waterproof.

 

Enjoy !

[drgt]

@ColinK

Thanks for the info.

Would you please post a picture as to where to grab and what is pulled out?

How does the rotting ink compare to the W&N Indian black described above?

[ColinK]

Gotta see it to believe it? Fair enough. Here is, rubber band included.

 

 

The main difference between W&N and the rOtring ink is that I own a big bottle of the latter and not a drop of the former. As this is my first time refilling this pen, I suggest you do some research about ink properties and cost and chose chose your pick; I wouldn't know what's best myself, and I would imagine most drawing inks (india ink, shellack based, dip-pen inks..) would do the trick. I chose rOtring cause I can't put it in fountain pens and it's waterproof.

 

Cheers

[drgt]

I was not sure where to grip out of the shown 3 places, but I figured it out. Except mine was not coming out by rubber, so I used needle nose pliers!

 

Thanks for the info!