Any Other B&m Stores In New York City?

[Parker51]

It is my understanding that it is not only pen shops in NYC which have disappeared.

My daughter was there last year with her family, staying in her father inlaw's apartment in Brooklyn and traveling to Manhattan (His home is here in Ohio, but he works in Manhattan, or remotely). Too many Starbucks she reported and similarly common chains.

She was however impressed by the high quality fresh produce and meat!

So while you may no longer be able to easily find a variety of speciality stores catering to your interests, getting some good fresh food remains an option and when open, some amazing restaurants of course.

Edited October 10, 2020 by Parker51

[welch]

Art Brown's closed because they could not continue to pay $50,000 a month in rent. Warren and Marilyn-the-Pen-Goddess had hoped to pass the store to heir son, David (I think his name is David). They lost space when they moved from 46th Street to 45th... no longer had the upper floor for paper and such-like. But even the single-floor store was too expensive.

 

I'd guess that its a killer to pay for a store on 45th Street just off 5th Avenue. Last I walked their block, it was mostly filled with restaurants that came and went. I bought pens from the Browns for about 25 years -- fiber-tipped pens and ballpoint refills and fountain pens and inks. There were stationery stores all around Midtown, many of which were squashed when Staples and Office Depot opened mega-stores. By now, those mega-stores are gone.

 

By the odd tax laws, a landlord does not, apparently, lose money when they raise rents and drive a tenant out of business. I would have expected commercial landlords to suffer when a storefront stays empty, as have too many places. I'm thinking, for instance, of what had been a women's clothing store called Liberty House, a few blocks from the Columbia U. campus. It has been empty for more than five years.

[corniche]

Art Brown's closed because they could not continue to pay $50,000 a month in rent. Warren and Marilyn-the-Pen-Goddess had hoped to pass the store to heir son, David (I think his name is David). They lost space when they moved from 46th Street to 45th... no longer had the upper floor for paper and such-like. But even the single-floor store was too expensive.

 

I'd guess that its a killer to pay for a store on 45th Street just off 5th Avenue. Last I walked their block, it was mostly filled with restaurants that came and went. I bought pens from the Browns for about 25 years -- fiber-tipped pens and ballpoint refills and fountain pens and inks. There were stationery stores all around Midtown, many of which were squashed when Staples and Office Depot opened mega-stores. By now, those mega-stores are gone.

 

By the odd tax laws, a landlord does not, apparently, lose money when they raise rents and drive a tenant out of business. I would have expected commercial landlords to suffer when a storefront stays empty, as have too many places. I'm thinking, for instance, of what had been a women's clothing store called Liberty House, a few blocks from the Columbia U. campus. It has been empty for more than five years.

 

Hi Welch, et al,

 

As one who is involved in real estate and land development; I can answer this for you.

 

Very often, especially in key cities like NY, the land beneath the building is worth many times more than the building (or other improvements) that sit on top. Speculators will usually leave buildings empty in the hopes that it will be able to be turned over in a few years at a profit. Why not lease it in the meantime?

 

Because most commercial leases are longterm - the average is 10-15 years. Having tenants in a building can complicate the turnover of the property as the prospective buyer usually has other plans of his own for the property. Furthermore, tenants increase insurance and liability risks for the owner - as well as adding to the wear and tear of the improvements to the land.

 

Another frequent issue is the owner dies and they bequeath the building to heirs who don't know - or cant get a consensus on - what to do with it.

 

Also, some commercial tenants ask for a "right to go dark" clause which enables them to vacate a building, but maintain the lease so they can reserve the building for future use. There are more reasons for vacant residential and commercial properties, but this will give you the jist.

 

 

- Sean

[corniche]

 

Did it close again after re-opening in 2017?

https://blog.rhodiapads.com/2013/08/09/art-brown-international-pen-shop-closes-in-new-york-city/#:~:text=I'm%20glad%20to%20announce,%3A%2F%2Fwww.artbrown.com.

 

This is from a 2017 post:

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/250074-art-browns-has-closed/page-3?do=findComment&comment=3957529

Hi Gary,

 

I was away from pens and FPN during 2017; I wasn't aware they had re-opened.

 

 

- Sean

[inkstainedruth]

By the odd tax laws, a landlord does not, apparently, lose money when they raise rents and drive a tenant out of business. I would have expected commercial landlords to suffer when a storefront stays empty, as have too many places. I'm thinking, for instance, of what had been a women's clothing store called Liberty House, a few blocks from the Columbia U. campus. It has been empty for more than five years.

There's a stretch of road south of Pittsburgh with a lot of strip malls with mostly empty storefronts. Apparently the people who own the property loan money to tenants or something, and then when the tenants can't repay in a timely fashion, they padlock the doors on the tenants. Then cry "poor me" to the county and state, and get rebates on the property taxes....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[corniche]

There's a stretch of road south of Pittsburgh with a lot of strip malls with mostly empty storefronts. Apparently the people who own the property loan money to tenants or something, and then when the tenants can't repay in a timely fashion, they padlock the doors on the tenants.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

This practice has been around for years; it's called "tenant financing." Its customary application has been for improvements. For example, a young, new doctor wants to lease a suite in a commercial building you own, but doesn't have the funds needed to convert the raw suite of rooms into something geared toward clinical use. The doctor might ask the owner (or management company) to float a loan to make renovations. The doctor gets a medical office and the owner gets his money back in addition to an improved space that is worth more than it was before. That's the win-win scenario.

 

However, since COVID19; a lot of lessees find themselves unable to pay their rent and are asking for tenant financing just to stay in the building. This is a thin ice deal, because your basically financing a failing business- which often results in both parties losing - and a lot of bad feelings and ill will.

 

You can't blame the owners, though; if you didn't pay your mortgage, the bank would lock you out just as fast... and there are also those owners who also have to pay a bank for the note on the commercial property their leasing out and cant afford to be left holding the proverbial bag themselves.

 

 

- Sean

[corniche]

I thought I should add that I'm blessed in that the residential/commercial properties I own are owned outright; which affords me the luxury of having more latitude with tenants - but, a lot of "owners" are leveraged themselves and don't have the luxury to "be nice"

 

Some banks are leveraged, too, (which has been going on since the '08 Crash - and the Pandemic stripped away the recovery progress we were making) - its a spooky picture out there.

 

 

- S.

[inkstainedruth]

This practice has been around for years; it's called "tenant financing." Its customary application has been for improvements. For example, a young, new doctor wants to lease a suite in a commercial building you own, but doesn't have the funds needed to convert the raw suite of rooms into something geared toward clinical use. The doctor might ask the owner (or management company) to float a loan to make renovations. The doctor gets a medical office and the owner gets his money back in addition to an improved space that is worth more than it was before. That's the win-win scenario.

 

However, since COVID19; a lot of lessees find themselves unable to pay their rent and are asking for tenant financing just to stay in the building. This is a thin ice deal, because your basically financing a failing business- which often results in both parties losing - and a lot of bad feelings and ill will.

 

You can't blame the owners, though; if you didn't pay your mortgage, the bank would lock you out just as fast... and there are also those owners who also have to pay a bank for the note on the commercial property their leasing out and cant afford to be left holding the proverbial bag themselves.

 

 

- Sean

Oh, this has been the practice of the property owners for some twenty or thirty years. The pandemic has nothing to do with it. I'm pretty sure they are NOT paying on the properties, themselves, other than possibly the property taxes; when they padlock the storefronts it's with very little (if any warning), and then basically confiscate and resell the contents with the store owners given no chance to try to pay up.

I heard the story from a friend of ours who used to live near where all these properties are, because at one point a number of years ago we had considered opening up a small business ourselves. The properties are all along a road that gets plenty of traffic on it, so it's not the case where customers have to go out of their way to find stores. The story I was told was that they deliberately inflate the values of the rental spaces, and our friend had nothing good to say about the landlords. They may have the legal right, but our friend was certainly of the opinion that it was deliberately done, with the intent that the leaseholders could NOT be able to pay.

As for our mortgage, we were given the option to refinance. The leaseholders of the store fronts? Not so lucky.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[corniche]

Oh, this has been the practice of the property owners for some twenty or thirty years. The pandemic has nothing to do with it. I'm pretty sure they are NOT paying on the properties, themselves, other than possibly the property taxes; when they padlock the storefronts it's with very little (if any warning), and then basically confiscate and resell the contents with the store owners given no chance to try to pay up.

I heard the story from a friend of ours who used to live near where all these properties are, because at one point a number of years ago we had considered opening up a small business ourselves. The properties are all along a road that gets plenty of traffic on it, so it's not the case where customers have to go out of their way to find stores. The story I was told was that they deliberately inflate the values of the rental spaces, and our friend had nothing good to say about the landlords. They may have the legal right, but our friend was certainly of the opinion that it was deliberately done, with the intent that the leaseholders could NOT be able to pay.

As for our mortgage, we were given the option to refinance. The leaseholders of the store fronts? Not so lucky.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Hi Ruth,

 

I misinterpreted your original post. Tenant financing - as I described it - goes back decades and is not what your referring to in this revised post. We were talking about two different things.

 

As far as I can see here; it all depends on what was contained in the lease your friend signed. If the tenant was in arrears in the rent beyond the specified grace period and if there was a chattel clause; then yes, the owner has the right to seize the contents and lock them out.

 

As far as the rent(s) being charged being deliberately inflated; again, I would refer to the lease they signed - it has to clearly define the rent(s) to be charged - including details involving rent increases, percentage based rents, (based on sales), etc. These should have been compared to the going market rates for that area at the time, (to determine if the rates being charged were inflated or egregious).

 

It sounds like your friend didn't do their due diligence and hired a schmuck of a lawyer to interpret the lease for them.

 

It also sounds like this owner has a long-standing reputation as a predator landlord - someone they could have avoided if they had researched things better before they signed a lease for that particular property, (such as talking to current and previous lessees; researching the turnover rate for that property, etc.).

 

It is a shame; they have my sympathy, but they were also fools to themselves.

 

 

- Sean

[corniche]

And now, back to the matter at hand. I miss the original Art Brown's, (to be fair, I should say that I haven't tried buying anything from the new Art Brown's that Gary referred to). I used to buy their custom inks, (and other things), by mail order and I always got polite, well informed assistance - not so much at FPH.

 

 

- Sean

[inkstainedruth]

Hi Ruth,

 

I misinterpreted your original post. Tenant financing - as I described it - goes back decades and is not what your referring to in this revised post. We were talking about two different things.

 

As far as I can see here; it all depends on what was contained in the lease your friend signed. If the tenant was in arrears in the rent beyond the specified grace period and if there was a chattel clause; then yes, the owner has the right to seize the contents and lock them out.

 

As far as the rent(s) being charged being deliberately inflated; again, I would refer to the lease they signed - it has to clearly define the rent(s) to be charged - including details involving rent increases, percentage based rents, (based on sales), etc. These should have been compared to the going market rates for that area at the time, (to determine if the rates being charged were inflated or egregious).

 

It sounds like your friend didn't do their due diligence and hired a schmuck of a lawyer to interpret the lease for them.

 

It also sounds like this owner has a long-standing reputation as a predator landlord - someone they could have avoided if they had researched things better before they signed a lease for that particular property, (such as talking to current and previous lessees; researching the turnover rate for that property, etc.).

 

It is a shame; they have my sympathy, but they were also fools to themselves.

 

 

- Sean

No, I think you misunderstand. My friend was not a victim of the predatory landlords, but I suspect he knew people who were, or else there had been enough local buzz (maybe some journalist who HAD done some due diligence) that he'd heard about them. I found out because I once mentioned that there seemed to be an awful lot of empty storefronts, all with that company's name on them.

Sadly, yes, there are people out there who do not do sufficient due diligence (a certain music group from the late 1960s comes to mind when they signed a contract with a label who promptly went belly up...). Fortunately for me, I was trained better than that....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[corniche]

No, I think you misunderstand. My friend was not a victim of the predatory landlords, but I suspect he knew people who were, or else there had been enough local buzz (maybe some journalist who HAD done some due diligence) that he'd heard about them. I found out because I once mentioned that there seemed to be an awful lot of empty storefronts, all with that company's name on them.

Sadly, yes, there are people out there who do not do sufficient due diligence (a certain music group from the late 1960s comes to mind when they signed a contract with a label who promptly went belly up...). Fortunately for me, I was trained better than that....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Hi Ruth,

 

No, I understand; I just said "friend," instead of "friend of a friend, acquaintance," etc., for the sake of simplicity. Any way you want to slice it, my advice remains the same.

 

 

- Sean

[wallylynn]

apathy from traditional retail with no appetit

e for innovation, no clear understanding of what customers want.

I take issue with this statement. It's very clear what customers want: cheap. That's for all intent and purpose mutually exclusive with brick and mortar retail.

[WRBNYC]

Others have already replied fairly comprehensively here, but as an NYC resident since 2012 I'll add a few notes - 

 

1. I might've missed it, but I don't think anyone mentioned Yours Truly, which is right down the street from where I live on Fulton Street in Fort Greene. They sell nice stationery (excellent selection of notebooks) and the store has what you might call a "cute Brooklyn" aesthetic. They carry fountain pens from a few brands like Kaweco, Lamy, and Caran d'Ache as well as mid-priced ($20-$100) rollerballs and ballpoints. It's worth a visit. 

 

2. I think some of the comments about Yoseka didn't give it enough credit. They not only sell a very solid variety of fountain pens (Pilot, Sailor, Platinum, TWSBI, Lamy...) but, more importantly, keep "floor models" out on a table and encourage you to use them, no asking for permission or assistance required (although I imagine this practice might be suspended temporarily due to covid).

 

I talk to people who say they've spent hours squinting at Amazon reviews and watching YouTube videos, agonizing over whether they'd be better off getting a Sailor Pro Gear or a Lamy 2000. At Yoseka it takes two minutes to try them out and see which one feels better in your hand while a friendly store clerk tells you about each pen's respective features. I think that really counts for a lot.

 

By contrast, FPH has a very uninviting vibe--the whole place is suffused with oppressively bright show floor lighting, the pens are kept behind glass, and most of the people who work there exhibit a less-than-charming combination of arrogance and ignorance (the black guy who I usually see behind the counter by the ink shelves is always friendly and helpful though, so props to him). I've occasionally stopped in there to grab a converter or a bottle of ink, but I generally try to avoid the place.  

 

3. I get no pleasure from saying this, but the sad truth is that fountain pens are often significantly cheaper to buy online and, as much as I might wish it were otherwise, it's unreasonable to expect people to pay a premium to support local businesses (a trend which covid has surely exacerbated). As much as I love what Yoseka is doing, they charge nearly twice as much as what you'd pay on Amazon for some of Sailor's gold nib pens. I don't blame the store owners and I understand that there are some inescapable reasons for why they can't afford to offer prices that would be competitive with online retailers, but the fact remains and I suspect this partly accounts for the relative dearth of b&m fountain pen shops in NYC.

[inkstainedruth]

That's why we in Pittsburgh were so happy for the Birmingham Pens B&M store (while it lasted) and keep hoping they'll find another location -- they tried to match the online prices as best they could, and had a good selection of brands, plus their "ink wall" (with stickies showing color swabs right at the specific brand/color).

But even in a more upscale neighborhood like Shadyside, rents are not going to be *anything* like what they are in NYC.

As for Yoseka, I just heard about them recently -- but haven't been to NYC since last winter, due to the pandemic.  I did get to Boston and Cambridge in September, and took commuter rail into South Station from the suburbs one day to go to Bromfield's and then to Bob Slate's in Cambridge (and another store walking back to the Harvard T-station that had some Kaweco pens and some journals (the place sold stuff like backpacks and such).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[alexwi]

On 12/21/2020 at 1:20 AM, WRBNYC said:

By contrast, FPH has a very uninviting vibe--the whole place is suffused with oppressively bright show floor lighting, the pens are kept behind glass, and most of the people who work there exhibit a less-than-charming combination of arrogance and ignorance (the black guy who I usually see behind the counter by the ink shelves is always friendly and helpful though, so props to him). I've occasionally stopped in there to grab a converter or a bottle of ink, but I generally try to avoid the place.  

 

That would be Jimmy. He's a very nice guy.

Marilyn, who used to own Arthur Brown & Bro with her husband, if she's still alive, is also very nice and is their resident inks expert.

 

The rest of the staff tends to show a no-nonsense attitude that makes it somewhat tense to go there and try out 10 pens with the possibility of not liking any of them. At now defunct Paradise Pens, Flax, or Art Brown, I could easily spend 2 hours and never felt that I was taking someone else's time.

 

The best times to visit FPH is when they have their events, when you'd be dealing with the brands' sales reps and have a chance to try dozens of pens without feeling any pressure whatsoever. But it also gets quite crowded then.

 

alex

[inkstainedruth]

The first time I ever went to FPH, I kinda got the same vibe.  I wanted to look at inks because I was trying to match what had come out of an Esterbrook SJ (a very nice blue-black ink) for color and shading).  Of course I had no idea what the ink was, or even if it was still on the market -- I was looking for a modern substitute.  The first guy told me I could try THREE inks.  Period.  But then another guy came over, told the first guy to go on break, and let me try more than three (except for the MB ink, possibly because it was shrink wrapped).  Didn't find a good match, but I left with a bottle of Noodler's Old Manhattan, a nice 3 pen zipper case (advertised on FPN for $20 because they'd gotten a deal somehow) and a copy of "Da Book" (the Frank Dubiel pen repair book). 

Usually when I'm there I am just looking at the ink swab book or the ink shelves, but one year I got the big Parker Vacumatic book when I saw they had it on a shelf, and another time I got a small Pelikan pen stand, and yet another time I got a couple of Esterbrook nib units in sizes/widths I didn't have.    

I think it's like any store -- if you go in and act like a grownup, they'll treat you like one.  I've never actually bought a pen there, because their prices are quite high (they ARE in lower Manhattan, after all).  But nearly every other pen store I've been in, the merchandise is in a case -- so it's not just them.  I've had them get out pens for me to try (I remember one being too heavy for its size).  But I asked politely, and let the staff deal with other customers while I window-shopped.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[KingsCountyWriter]

11 minutes ago, inkstainedruth said:

I think it's like any store -- if you go in and act like a grownup, they'll treat you like one. 

Unfortunately, their attitude has little do with customers acting appropriately. I've had unfortunate interactions with them in person as well as on the phone. 

 

Jimmy ALWAYS greets me upon entrance. Another dude who sits behind the counter has yet to turn his head or look up from what he's doing when I enter the workspace. It's a terrible vibe in that space, and I'm grateful for the other stationery startups that have appeared within the last decade around the city. Hopefully COVID doesn't undermine their existence.