Does Anyone Use Red Ink Anymore?

[Moruk]

Do you count Diamine's Oxblood and Burnt Sienna as reds? If so, I use them.

[Ebberman]

I like black, dark blues and dark browns for maximum legibility on white paper. Reds and greens have less legibility but more shock value. I have a bottle of red Quink from childhood. I also have a bottle of the same added to my collection from when I married. It had dried to a powder which I re-constituted by adding water. Red is not a useful colour generally - that's why these two bottles have lasted for over 50 years. A couple of months ago I tried mixing Quink red and blue and was rewarded with nice colours I could use. Use a test tube or similar, add one drop of blue at a time to the tube of red and stop when you like the colour. Do the same with the colours reversed. Don't mix equal amounts of each unless you want mud.

[TSherbs]

. Don't mix equal amounts of each unless you want mud.

Especially if they are decades old inks....

[Ebberman]

Especially if they are decades old inks....

Well, my Quink Blue and Red are decades old, but I don't like them so I mix them rather than throw them away. Nothing I produce with them compares with Diamine colours, though.

[Manalto]

I've noticed that the teachers around me have stopped using red ink. When I ask them about it, they generally give a mealy-mouthed explanation referring to the harshness of red.

 

I had a student a few years ago snatch my red pen from my hand, she was so upset that her work wasn't perfect. Since then, I give a little speech which states the obvious: 1. My corrections are to help you, and 2. Red is hard to miss. When that has sunk in, I coyly add in my most charming manner, "I say nice things in red, too." And I do. I believe success in learning English as a second language depends somewhat on the student's ability to feel encouraged and supported, so those words are offered in bright, saturated red.

 

I use a ballpoint for marking papers. I'm afraid to put red ink in a fountain pen because of all the reports of clogging problems. Am I mistaken?

Edited June 27, 2020 by Manalto

[LizEF]

...

 

I use a ballpoint for marking papers. I'm afraid to put red ink in a fountain pen because of all the reports of clogging problems. Am I mistaken?

Depends on the ink. I really like Waterman Audacious Red - it doesn't have any clogging, nib crud, or staining problems. Of course, if you want water resistance, then something else will be needed.

[Manalto]

Thanks, Liz. I'll give Waterman's AR a try and try to be a little bit more careful about my cocktail.

[Ebberman]

"I say nice things in red, too."

Yes, I have only nice memories of red marking. It always said VG - 10/10

[bayindirh]

I've noticed that the teachers around me have stopped using red ink. When I ask them about it, they generally give a mealy-mouthed explanation referring to the harshness of red.

 

I had a student a few years ago snatch my red pen from my hand, she was so upset that her work wasn't perfect. Since then, I give a little speech which states the obvious: 1. My corrections are to help you, and 2. Red is hard to miss. When that has sunk in, I coyly add in my most charming manner, "I say nice things in red, too." And I do. I believe success in learning English as a second language depends somewhat on the student's ability to feel encouraged and supported, so those words are offered in bright, saturated red.

 

I use a ballpoint for marking papers. I'm afraid to put red ink in a fountain pen because of all the reports of clogging problems. Am I mistaken?

Personally I was one of the students affected by the mood created by red ink. Most of the time I understood that red was for highlighting but, sometime it got to me. When combined with the fast writing style, it conveys a mode of being angry and hostile while reading the papers, especially on the courses that I was struggling.

 

Struggling on a course and being angry towards me by the instructor about it was never a good combination for me. I'd just do the bare minimum to pass the course and nothing more.

 

An energetic green is much easier on the mood and eyes while grading papers I think. Unless something's extremely important, I also use green for personal notes and corrections on the academic papers that I read/write.

 

Students are kinda sensitive sometimes.

[Manalto]

 

Students are kinda sensitive sometimes.

No, students aren't "kinda sensitive sometimes" - students are sensitive. For this reason, I would much rather gently and respectfully adapt them to the world of red ink (red-ink here is a metaphor for the inevitable harsh realities each person is certain to face in his or her lifetime); I consider it an important aspect of growing up. To pander to a student's objection to my choice of color only reinforces the idea that complaining may result in acquiescence - which it does sometimes, of course, but that's a strategy already learned in infancy. Edited June 28, 2020 by Manalto

[TSherbs]

....To pander to a student's objection to my choice of color only reinforces the idea that complaining may result in acquiescence .

So, caring about the nature of another person's psychology and your relationship to that person is a form of "pandering"? Students may be sensitive (cuz all people are), but you appear reactionary (not all people are this). Can't you tone this down to a reasonable middle ground, where the adult isn't just the master dispensing life lessons with what appears to be disregard to possible injury to the relationship of trust that deep learning rests upon?

 

As I said above, the color usually doesn't matter. But the relationship sure does, especially that perceived by the student. It's their brain doing the learning.

[Manalto]

"Possible injury" I will leave for psychiatric professionals to judge. Your smug instructions to "tone it down" and implications of a domineering environment are presumptuous and deliberately ignore my earlier description of a classroom environment that I insist be supportive and encouraging. (My repeat students and those they've recommended to me would appear to bear this out.) This discussion has become circular and adversarial, so I will withdraw from it, which I assume is your goal.

[TSherbs]

"Possible injury" I will leave for psychiatric professionals to judge. Your smug instructions to "tone it down" and implications of a domineering environment are presumptuous and deliberately ignore my earlier description of a classroom environment that I insist be supportive and encouraging. (My repeat students and those they've recommended to me would appear to bear this out.) This discussion has become circular and adversarial, so I will withdraw from it, which I assume is your goal.

More reactionary response. I don't want you to leave at all.

 

So let me ask you a question for further discussion: why do you consider possible psychological injury to a student not your purview as a teacher? Why to be left to a psychiatric professional only? I really don't understand. At my school I am trained to recognize and respond appropriately to all sorts of psychological distress cues (the worst of which would be injury or trauma) from students (I teach teens). If I said publically what you wrote above, I would be fired for negligence. Am I reading some sort of resentment between your lines? What gives?

[bayindirh]

No, students aren't "kinda sensitive sometimes" - students are sensitive. For this reason, I would much rather gently and respectfully adapt them to the world of red ink (red-ink here is a metaphor for the inevitable harsh realities each person is certain to face in his or her lifetime); I consider it an important aspect of growing up. To pander to a student's objection to my choice of color only reinforces the idea that complaining may result in acquiescence - which it does sometimes, of course, but that's a strategy already learned in infancy.

I had a different response in my head when I first read your response but, reading your other responses only a single quote comes into my mind:

 

"You don't always have to cut things with the sword of truth. You can point with it too."

 

Using a gentler color doesn't change the outcome of the exam or the resulting grade. Only provides a more gradual but well grown resistance to real world. Also, being "the teacher" in the classroom doesn't make one the most right person. Many of my teachers have explicitly apologized me for thinking that I was not capable of doing the things I'm doing today and saying "these things" to me.

 

As a teacher you can either bring out the best version of a person like my maths teacher who showed me that I'm not inferior to others or can make one to seal himself/herself forever like my arts teacher who made me leave painting and drawing forever.

 

With great power comes great responsibility.

Edited June 28, 2020 by bayindirh

[Ebberman]

If I have a garden containing thorns do I

a) Warn my children that there are prickly things out there?

Remove the thorns so that they can have an extended childhood?

 

One of those will prepare the child for life.

 

All you people who are "triggered" by red pen must have made a great many mistakes. The red pen on my work always said: Excellent, or some other similar praise. Criticism isn't automatically negative. The colour red, as noted by others, is simply to get noticed. Traffic lights use it for the same reason.

Edited June 28, 2020 by Ebberman

[bayindirh]

While you're right, the analogy is off. To re-iterate myself:

 

 

...sometimes it got to me. When combined with the fast writing style, it conveys a mode of being angry and hostile while reading the papers, especially on the courses that I was struggling. (Emphasis mine).

 

I want to make this more clear: I'm an introverted person and I had my fair share of self-confidence problems. It doesn't help to get angry to someone who cannot trust himself, is introverted and struggling with something. You'll just push that person inwards more and make him lose motivation.

 

Editing in non-red ink doesn't remove thorns. Introduces them to thorns in a more gentle way. To be extremely blunt it's:

 

- Hey! you did something wrong here.

vs.

- YOU CAN'T DO THIS! YOU'RE S*UPID!

 

Exam result doesn't change. If you fail, you fail. What changes is perception. First one becomes "I've failed". Second becomes "You made me repeat the class!". I don't think that second one improves one's understanding of responsibility and prepare one to life.

 

I got my fair share of praises in red ink. I also got my fair share of criticisms with it. The thing I think I cannot make clear is writing carries emotions and intentions beyond words. Ink color, writing style... all conveys something. Like in verbal communication, empathy is essential in written communication, especially the receiving party is both inferior and not matured completely. A small seed on the wrong place can move a lot of stones in the wrong places in the future.

 

If I pretend to be totally ignorant to the things I've just written above, I may have equally just asked:

 

- All you people who are "triggered" by people dislike grading using a red pen must have some need to assert their superiority so badly.

 

How does being labeled feel?

Edited June 28, 2020 by bayindirh

[IThinkIHaveAProblem]

If I have a garden containing thorns do I

a) Warn my children that there are prickly things out there?

Remove the thorns so that they can have an extended childhood?

 

One of those will prepare the child for life.

 

THIS.

 

Using a "gentler colour" is IMO asinine for the following reasons:

1) you are, as noted above, not doing the students any favours by shielding them from the truth. It will simply hit MUCH harder when a boss, who pays their salary doesn't coddle them! If they don't learn to handle criticism at a young age, life will be much harder for them later on.

2) as noted in previous posts, if all teachers used, say, a nice soft teal like Vert Reseda for corrections, a generation or two from now, you'd have "adults" who are "triggered" by vert reseda and consider it to be "too aggressive" not because of the colour, but because they never learned to DEAL WITH IT.

3) you don't HAVE to be cruel when giving corrections, but the colour of the ink used is NOT related to how cruel the person is. Bad Teachers will still be bad teachers even if they use a nice soft mint coloured ink.

[bayindirh]

I'd like to politely and disrespectfully disagree on some issues with you here.

 

 

If they don't learn to handle criticism at a young age, life will be much harder for them later on.

 

I absolutely agree with this but, I also agree that there's an art in giving criticisms. It's extremely important to separate the business from character and not make it personal. Business and is business and is serious, however it's never OK to insult someone personally while doing giving criticism. The strongest criticism I got is from someone who's very soft spoken. You get your criticism, understand what's wrong and correct it. Nothing personal is get involved.

 

There's something powerful in being calm and, most people fail to understand this as far as I see.

 

 

as noted in previous posts, if all teachers used, say, a nice soft teal like Vert Reseda for corrections, a generation or two from now, you'd have "adults" who are "triggered" by vert reseda and consider it to be "too aggressive" not because of the colour, but because they never learned to DEAL WITH IT.

 

As long as blood, violence, STOP signs, negative numbers in accounting books and anything and everything negative is denoted by red in our world, this is very unlikely. It's about the meaning of red in this universe. If you change all red things including blood to vert reseda, your hypothesis might hold true.

 

Also "feeling bad" is not being "triggered". There's a very thin slight yet extremely important difference.

 

 

you don't HAVE to be cruel when giving corrections, but the colour of the ink used is NOT related to how cruel the person is. Bad Teachers will still be bad teachers even if they use a nice soft mint coloured ink.

 

That's also correct. However please see both previous point and my previous post with my emphasis.

 

I think it's very hard to separate the criticism from the anger which, generally comes bundled with it. However anger doesn't improve criticism, but blurs it.

 

Edit: Corrected some mistakes I've made due to multitasking w/ red ink.

Edited June 28, 2020 by bayindirh

[Intensity]

I'd like to politely and disrespectfully disagree on some issues with you here.

 

 

I absolutely agree with this but, I also agree that there's an art in giving criticisms. It's extremely important to separate the business from character and not make it personal. Business and business and is serious, however it's never OK to insult someone personally while doing criticism. The strongest criticism I got is from someone who's very soft spoken. You get your criticism, understand what's wrong and correct it. Nothing personal is get involved.

 

There's something powerful in being calm and, most people fail to understand this as far as I see.

 

 

As long as blood, violence, STOP signs, negative numbers in accounting books and anything and everything negative is denoted by red in our world, this is very unlikely. It's about the meaning of red in this universe. If you change all red things including blood to vert reseda, your hypothesis might hold true.

 

Also "feeling bad" is not being "trrigered". There's a very thin yet extremely important difference.

 

 

That's also correct. However please see both previous point and my previous post with emphasis.

 

I think it's very hard to separate the criticism from the anger which generally comes bundled with it. However anger doesn't improve criticism, but blurs it.

 

 

Well said, I agree with everything you wrote. There seems to be some schadenfreude in connection with doling out the 'red', but it's not really about the color. There might develop an association with the color after the fact, combined with all the stop signs, etc.

[Helen350]

Having just purchased a costly bottle of Akkerman Dutch Masters Scharlaken van Jan Steen/120 ml (reminds me Classic

Sheaffer Red), I will be writing with this color for a verrrrrrrrrrrrrry looooooooooooong time. Thank goodness I do a lot of

journaling. .