Leuchtturm Paper Quality

[tooloose-letrek]

I have been using Leuchtturm journals for a while now, mostly because they are locally available at Barnes and Noble. Lately I've noticed more bleeding through the pages, using the same fountain pens I've been using for the past few years. Perhaps 4-6 years ago I recall that B&N had a sale on the full line of these notebooks and at first thought they might be dropping them, but no. I'm wondering if this company changed the paper quality and wanted to clear old stock.

 

I use mostly fine nibs.

 

Anybody else notice a change?

 

Thanks.

[Kenlowe]

I wonder if Barnes and Noble had some old stock?

 

I trialled Leuchtturm in 2012 and my view was that the paper was a little better than Moleskine in respect of FO use, but not by much. The problem was showthrough on all inks and nibs and bleedthrough on anything other than Fine nib and dry ink combination. The size I used was A5, I have heard that other paper sizes were a little better.

 

The date would fall in line with your special offer at B and N.

[sansenri]

I wonder if Barnes and Noble had some old stock?

 

I trialled Leuchtturm in 2012 and my view was that the paper was a little better than Moleskine in respect of FO use, but not by much. The problem was showthrough on all inks and nibs and bleedthrough on anything other than Fine nib and dry ink combination. The size I used was A5, I have heard that other paper sizes were a little better.

 

The date would fall in line with your special offer at B and N.

same experience, better than Moleskine but not by much. Some bleed through was there, so that was my last Leuchtturm notebook, as improvement was not sufficient to settle for it. I'm back to Clairefontaine although I do prefer the hard covers on the Moleskine and Leuchtturm.

[Kenlowe]

It is a pity because these notebooks are well made with some good features.

 

Bleedthrough isn't too bad simpler inks such as Parker Washable Blue and used in a pen that is not a wet writer, not that such steps should be neccessary in a quality product.

 

The bottom line is that if you need to write on both sides of the page then you may need to look for another brand of notebook.

[A Smug Dill]

Anybody else notice a change?

 

Since when in what exactly? Which product lines or styles? Acquired how and where? Between which points in time in the past and recently?

[Kenlowe]

 

Since when in what exactly? Which product lines or styles? Acquired how and where? Between which points in time in the past and recently?

 

 

Sounds a bit aggressive.

 

Not sure if, or more pertinently why, you think the OP should be answering your questions.

 

If you haven't noticed any change in the performance of Leuchtturm paper, at any point, then this thread is not for you.

Edited June 12, 2020 by OilMugs

[A Smug Dill]

Sounds a bit aggressive.

 

Not sure if, or more pertinently why, you think the OP should be answering your questions.

 

Because he/she wasn't specific in the question posed, so I'm trying down to narrow down the scope before I -- or anyone else -- can answer whether any change was noticed within the scope of his/her question.

 

I don't know why some people assume that not putting things in a friendly or gentle tone is necessarily aggressive. The O.P. is seeking information, and so am I. We're not friends, and we're not opponents, but just strangers and equals who know nothing of each other, feel nothing for each other, but share some common interests in the hobby and prospectively engaging in exchange of ideas and information.

[Kenlowe]

For your first paragraph if there has been any change in any period then that is enough for a response. The company relaunched their products in 2012 and the quality of the paper went downhill for fountain pen users at that time. I suspect that B and N had the previous version of the notebooks for their special promotion which had paper that was close to Rhodia in terms of quality and writing performance. The company is aware of the change of paper performance.

 

For your second performance I note that you use the phrase some people, the bottom line is that this is a forum that makes every effort to be warm and friendly. You asked eight questions in less than two lines without a please to be seen and no attempt at why you wanted this information. If you were to machine gun eight questions in quick succession in real life I think you would be well on the way to an argument. In my book, that is called aggressive and this post by you is not unique in that regard.

 

As regards the final part of your paragraph, you have barked questions at a stranger and really expect a reply?

 

The OPs question could have simply been answered by a Yes or No, if you had noticed a changed you could have explained when you noticed that change.

 

I have heard from others by PM that they have tried to give you advice on moderating the manner in which you respond, you really should have taken heed.

[tooloose-letrek]

I do like the hard covers. I have used Clairefontaine and like it. As I said, I'd shop local because of the convenience; I've only recently begun purchasing online. (I still prefer supporting my local area.) Thanks for the feedback.

[Runnin_Ute]

My first Leuchtturm notebook (A5)was purchased in 2014. Went through a couple, both dot grid, current one blank pages - it seems less good than the first two. But because it is blank pages versus dot grid I have been withholding judgement until I can try another dot grid, which I purchased earlier this year, but haven't opened yet.

[PaperDarts]

I use F and XF nibs, and haven't found any bleed-through problems with the Leuchturm 1917s. Mind you, all of mine are fairly recent purchases (within the last 5 years). I use a variety of inks, and haven't found problems with any of them. Leuchturms are my go-to notebook these days, I've been quite pleased with them.

[Kenlowe]

The first batch I tried in 2012 was as bad as some others in 2018.

 

With an XF nib and ink such as Parkers the paper is ok, still has showthrough but not bleedthrough.

 

With a medium or wider nib and a wetter ink there is some feathering and bleedthrough.

 

If you are comparing the brand to Moleskine it is better but then it is worse than the better rated papers.

Edited June 15, 2020 by OilMugs

[Arcadian]

I am a huge Leuchtturm fan, and use both their pocket and their a5 versions every day.

 

Recently they changed the printing of lines on the paper, as well as the font they use. It is no doubt an attempt to make their notebooks look more "modern", but in my opinion it has only made them less desirable. The lines, date etc. are now far more prominent, whereas they used to be quite subtly printed on the page.

 

I have no specific examples or proof, but it seems to me that the paper they use has taken a turn for the worse at the same time. I haven't looked into it, but I would not be surprised if the company was bought by a hedge fund that is now trying to score every coin they can by dropping production costs.

 

Please, let me be wrong…

 

 

- P.

[sansenri]

I use F and XF nibs, and haven't found any bleed-through problems with the Leuchturm 1917s. Mind you, all of mine are fairly recent purchases (within the last 5 years). I use a variety of inks, and haven't found problems with any of them. Leuchturms are my go-to notebook these days, I've been quite pleased with them.

same here, however I'm forced to use F not to get noticeable bleed through, which is ok when note taking, as my Leuchturm is an A6,

with wider nibs it is irritatingly noticeable though. I'm still using it, as still some space left, but will not be getting another one.

[max dog]

I don't like the forever for the ink to dry glossy, slippery Rhodia or Clairefontaine type paper notebooks. They are usually too bulky or dont have enough pages to be practical anyway. Leuchtturm are fountain pen friendly enough and have a nice compact form factor similar to Moleskine that I like. I highly recommend it for people who want the practicality of Moleskine journals but with fountain pen friendly paper that is resistent to bleed through and feathering.

Edited June 15, 2020 by max dog

[Keyless Works]

What is the appeal of this brand? I don't mean that in a critical way. My question comes from genuine curiosity.

 

I've been interested in paper and notebooks for a long time and I think the Leuchtturm notebooks look pretty but they always seemed expensive to me.

 

The paper that you get from Midori and Maruman for less money is about as good as paper gets before you start looking to truly high end paper.

 

If I wanted to buy one what would be the most representative model?

[A Smug Dill]

I've been interested in paper and notebooks for a long time and I think the Leuchtturm notebooks look pretty but they always seemed expensive to me.

Well, let's put the price, per book or per page, aside for the moment since that is heavily dependent on the circumstances of the individual consumer (in terms of access to retail channels, availability/oversupply of stock, and promotional/discount offers) at any given time and look at the product quality and features.

 

When I first got into using relatively 'top-shelf' hardcover A5 journals for everyday work use several years back, and specifically looking for dot grid paper, the primary candidates were Moleskine, Rhodia Webnotebooks and Leuchtturm1917.

 

Moleskine had the worst paper quality, at least with regard to use with my fountain pens and (at the time, predominantly Noodler's) inks; and it priced it dot grid journals as if they were in the same league as Rhodia and Leuchtturm1917, even though it was made in China. It's only redeeming feature, so to speak, was being high on the average punter's awareness by having a prominent product stand in every bricks-and-mortar department store, office supplies and/or stationery store, bookstore and even most newsagents here. I see it as marketing with a similar strategy to Parker and Cross (especially after they moved higher-volume models to Chinese production). Moleskine was thus removed from serious consideration.

 

Between Rhodia and Leuchtturm1917, at the time,

 

[/th][th] Rhodia	Leuchtturm1917
Country of manufacture	France	Germany_ (but seems to have moved in recent years; the metallic edition I bought in 2019 was made in Taiwan)
Item weight	370g	415g
Covers	thicker (i.e. less compact) with wider rims (i.e. less compact) finished with a soft 'leatherette' material only came in black or orange (before the introduction of the Rhodiarama line)	thinner (but still plenty stiff, tough and protective enough) with a hard, slick finish barely extend past the journal pages physically came in many different colours that are suitable for use in a professional environment all the same
Paper	cream-coloured 90g/m² 192 pages light grey guide marks (dots)	off-white (a teensy bit whiter than the Rhodia) 80g/m² 250 pages faint grey guide marks (slightly lighter than on the Rhodia)
Other features	elastic band for enclosure slim pocket on inside back cover	elastic band for enclosure slim pocket on inside back cover (unobtrusive) pre-printed page numbers 3 Table of Contents_/ index pages upfront (not included in the page count) 8 perforated pages at the end (starting from page 235) self-adhesive labels included

 

The covers on the Rhodia Webnotebooks have proven not to stand up too well to rigours of everyday use in my experience, exhibiting cracks and split after several months of being tossed into backpacks and messenger bags, then flaking over several years after being put away on the shelf or in storage. The covers on the Leuchtturm1917 can be scratched and scuffed too, of course, but show no further deterioration in the material over time.

 

So, I liked everything about the Leuchtturm1917 better, except the extra heft per book perhaps, and even that added to the impression of gravitas and matched the tough, slick-but-not-glossy, spartan feel of the covers. I haven't found the paper in either product to be perfect with all inks; the bright white, coated paper in Clairefontaine 'Age Bag' softcover notebooks is more resistant to feathering and show-through than the cream-coloured and off-white papers in the Rhodia and Leuchtturm1917 journals. However, the perforated and detachable pages at the end were great for testing pens and inks on the paper in each Leuchtturm1917 journal, before writing meaningful content with them only to find unacceptable feathering, show-through or bleed-through on the page.

 

Both products were about equally expensive to buy locally at the time; but when the opportunity came to ordering a whole lot of the Leuchtturm1917 books from the UK at discounted prices and reasonable international shipping rates, I did just that. I think we still have ten or so new journals in a box somewhere from that order years ago. (I also gave Rhodia a good go, and still have a dozen or so new books left over from bulk orders back in the day.)

 

The paper that you get from Midori and Maruman for less money is about as good as paper gets before you start looking to truly high end paper.

I never liked the idea of slipping what effectively serves as a refill into an 'executive' leather journal cover, and neither Midori (which I haven't heard of back then anyway) or Maruman makes hard-wearing hardcover journals. I also don't know that an A5 journal with 250 pages (or, say, 128 sheets) of Maruman paper would be cheaper than buying a Leuchtturm1917. I have used Maruman before, but not since my high school days back in Hong Kong. I got a couple of the spiral-bound Maruman notebooks last year from Kinokuniya here to try out in the name of this hobby, but they weren't exactly cheap; and I wouldn't have used them in my work setting anyway. I have yet to get around to testing them, but I do have some doubt as to how good the Maruman 70g/m² paper is in suppressing show-through.

 

If I wanted to buy one what would be the most representative model?

Probably the hardcover Medium (A5) dotted journals, but not the ones specifically marked as 'bullet' journals, which I think are priced higher but actually offer less. However, given Leuchtturm1917 has moved production from Germany and, as I understand it, not only has the paper changed (of course) but also the colour and presentation of the guide marks, page numbers, etc. what is representative of Leuchtturm1917's currently-in-production offerings may not quite match what long-term fans of the brand see or remember when they talk about Leuchtturm1917 on forums.

[dennis_f]

People are talking about the paper change in Leuchtturm notebooks. Roughly when did this happen?

 

I bought two new journals (dot grid, a5) in the fall; they were a new shipment, just in from (what I thought at the time was) Germany. The paper in those notebooks has been just as good as the paper had been previously.

Has the change in production location and/or paper quality occurred since then?

[Keyless Works]

So, I liked everything about the Leuchtturm1917 better, except the extra heft per book perhaps, and even that added to the impression of gravitas and matched the tough, slick-but-not-glossy, spartan feel of the covers. I haven't found the paper in either product to be perfect with all inks; the bright white, coated paper in Clairefontaine 'Age Bag' softcover notebooks is more resistant to feathering and show-through than the cream-coloured and off-white papers in the Rhodia and Leuchtturm1917 journals. However, the perforated and detachable pages at the end were great for testing pens and inks on the paper in each Leuchtturm1917 journal, before writing meaningful content with them only to find unacceptable feathering, show-through or bleed-through on the page.

 

Both products were about equally expensive to buy locally at the time; but when the opportunity came to ordering a whole lot of the Leuchtturm1917 books from the UK at discounted prices and reasonable international shipping rates, I did just that. I think we still have ten or so new journals in a box somewhere from that order years ago. (I also gave Rhodia a good go, and still have a dozen or so new books left over from bulk orders back in the day.)

 

 

I never liked the idea of slipping what effectively serves as a refill into an 'executive' leather journal cover, and neither Midori (which I haven't heard of back then anyway) or Maruman makes hard-wearing hardcover journals. I also don't know that an A5 journal with 250 pages (or, say, 128 sheets) of Maruman paper would be cheaper than buying a Leuchtturm1917. I have used Maruman before, but not since my high school days back in Hong Kong. I got a couple of the spiral-bound Maruman notebooks last year from Kinokuniya here to try out in the name of this hobby, but they weren't exactly cheap; and I wouldn't have used them in my work setting anyway. I have yet to get around to testing them, but I do have some doubt as to how good the Maruman 70g/m² paper is in suppressing show-through.

 

 

Probably the hardcover Medium (A5) dotted journals, but not the ones specifically marked as 'bullet' journals, which I think are priced higher but actually offer less. However, given Leuchtturm1917 has moved production from Germany and, as I understand it, not only has the paper changed (of course) but also the colour and presentation of the guide marks, page numbers, etc. what is representative of Leuchtturm1917's currently-in-production offerings may not quite match what long-term fans of the brand see or remember when they talk about Leuchtturm1917 on forums.

 

 

During the time I have been aware of Leuchtturm, the notebooks have never been made in Germany, so this change must have happened several years ago.

 

I do get your point about the hardcover format. Leuchtturm has a lot of features. I have had Quo Vadis Habanas which are made in the USA with Italian leatherette hardcovers and Clairefontaine paper...these are $20 in A5 and have some of the same features (you do have to like the Clairefontaine paper though). There are also Black n' Red Hardcover A5 journals (casebound, elastic, numbered pages, pocket) that are made in Poland with their very good Optik 90gsm paper...there are usually $10-15...ugly branding though on the pages.

 

For similar money to Leuchtturm you can get Lamy notebooks which have very good quality paper, made in Italy. I also really like Gmund (a real German paper mill) hardcover A5 notebooks, they are a similar price but have had a harder time sourcing them in the last couple of years.

 

I've used Clairefontaine notebooks since I was a child. The formats have always been bad...I've used and use Rhodia paper a decent amount because it is inexpensive but their hardcover notebooks always had ugly branding on them.

 

Maruman paper, even their cheap school "smooth to write" paper does very well with fountain pen ink, as does their 80 gsm Mnemosyne paper.

 

I am going to try the Leuchtturm A5 dotted hardcover journal...I definitely need the experience.

[Beechwood]

People are talking about the paper change in Leuchtturm notebooks. Roughly when did this happen?

 

I bought two new journals (dot grid, a5) in the fall; they were a new shipment, just in from (what I thought at the time was) Germany. The paper in those notebooks has been just as good as the paper had been previously.

 

Has the change in production location and/or paper quality occurred since then?

 

The paper quailty has not been good for FP since 2011, the company had a relaunch. What you think of the paper really depends on how you use it, pencil and BP users will have no problems, FP XF and F users will have minimal problems, Medium and broad nib users, in my experience, will have showthrough and with some inks they will have have bleedthrough, one Noodlers ink that I had bled through the page and the words were visible on the follwoing page, i.e. Page 3 of the book.

 

The company is aware of these problems for FP users.

 

I would agree with all the points made by Keyless.

 

If you have a Lidl store near you they may carry their own small black notebooks which cost around 30% of the mainstream brands, 250 pages 80gsm and all of the expected features, they also have better paper quality,