Waterproof

[silverlifter]

 

I've seen modern stainless nibs subjected to intense iron gall lose gold plating and start to pit with time. I wouldn't use it in a steel nib pen I loved or couldn't easily replace the nib on.

 

Gold plated nibs are at a much higher risk to modern iron galls; plain stainless steel much less so, to the point of it being negligble.

[Paganini]

Well, let's be specific. What is "intense iron gall?" What is "time?" What is a "modern iron gall?"

 

I have about 5 plated nibs of one sort or another (or 20, if you count all the crappy Wing Sung nibs I got off eBay looking for a replacement nib for my Metro).

 

My IG inks are R&K Salix, Platinum Blue Black, and Pelikan 4001 Blue Black. My Bock and Jo Wo plated nibs have been in continuous contact with one of those 3 inks for from roughly 3 months (for the newest one) to a year (the oldest one) with no problem.

 

On the other hand, the plating started to flake off of those Wing Sung nibs after about a week of being filled with Serenity Blue!

 

I can't help but read Honeybadger's post in a tone of Grave Seriousness, as though it Proves that Iron Gall Inks are Unsafe. It doesn't, though. Maybe that nib was going to pit and flake, regardless of what kind of ink flowed through it. That cuts both ways though... maybe I just got lucky with my 5 nibs. Ultimately, this kind of argument from personal experience is just not very compelling.

I wouldn't want to put any other ink in pens I care about... because if I didn't I wouldn't be able to use those pens for the things I need pens to do. On the other hand, I can understand the psychological impulse that might lead someone to not want to give a pen they care about what amounts to an indefinite acid bath.

 

- N

[bayindirh]

The inks you all use are modern IG inks. I have a Pelikan 120, first production run. It has a plated steel nib. There's no plating around and below the breather hole to the tip. This is probably due to iron gall inks of 60s and 70s (grandpa was a fan of greenish blue black inks). I cannot tell anything exact about "time" but the plating looks "long gone", so it's not too much if you ask me.

 

Newer production methods (both ink and steel and, also plating) is much improved upon the older techniques. So things are probably safer now.

[A Smug Dill]

I wouldn't use it in a steel nib pen I loved or couldn't easily replace the nib on.

 

 

Whereas I'd happily use an iron-gall ink in my Diplomat Aero with a (silver-coloured, presumably un-plated) steel EF nib that I love. Actually, any Japanese pen with a silver-coloured steel nib, e.g. a Sailor Procolor 'Stardust', even though the Japanese 'Big Three' brands aren't of the habit of selling replacement nibs on demand to retail customers.

 

I haven't seen any of the steel nibs on my Sailor Procolor and Lecoule pens develop pits or tiny craters in the metal surface from corrosion, but even if it does, as long as it doesn't affect the writing experience or outcomes, who cares?

 

For what it's worth, I love the [/gold-plated/] F nib that came originally on my first Pelikan M200 Smoky Quartz, and after six or so months of the pen being filled and writing with Platinum Classic Ink Khaki Black, I haven't noticed any flaking or other cosmetic damage to the nib.

[CAG_1787]

Maybe it's just me, but my Pelikan Blue-Black is most definitely not waterproof.

 

Though somewhat pricey, I think Montblanc Permanent Black and Permanent Blue are now the only expressly waterproof inks made by a pen manufacturer.

[silverlifter]

Though somewhat pricey, I think Montblanc Permanent Black and Permanent Blue are now the only expressly waterproof inks made by a pen manufacturer.

Rohrer & Klingner's Dokumentus line is ISO certified and archival grade waterproof. De Atramentis also have a line of document inks.

 

I would also consider DRI and ESSRI to be waterproof.

[bayindirh]

 

Rohrer & Klingner's Dokumentus line is ISO certified and archival grade waterproof.

 

You're trying very hard to make me buy even more inks. You're a bad influence!

[CAG_1787]

Rohrer & Klingner's Dokumentus line is ISO certified and archival grade waterproof. De Atramentis also have a line of document inks.

 

I would also consider DRI and ESSRI to be waterproof.

 

Unless I missed something, none of those are pen manufacturers.

 

Probably affectatious, but I just trust pen manufacturers more to make safe inks.

[silverlifter]

 

Probably affectatious, but I just trust pen manufacturers more to make safe inks.

 

Noodlers makes pens (or at least sells them under their brand)...

Edited May 29, 2020 by silverlifter

[CAG_1787]

 

Noodlers makes pens (or at least sells them under their brand)...

 

I stand corrected and point conceded, because I don't generally trust Noodler's and they do produce hollow sticks called pens that occasionally blurt out ink

[silverlifter]

 

I stand corrected and point conceded, because I don't generally trust Noodler's and they do produce hollow sticks called pens that occasionally blurt out ink

Not to mention their unique "aromatic" quality!

[wallylynn]

 

 

On the other hand, the plating started to flake off of those Wing Sung nibs after about a week of being filled with Serenity Blue!

 

Its not well known, but Florida blue (now serenity blue) is rather acidic. Someone tested and published in a pen magazine and others here on fpn have used their own equipment. Exact values not stable but acidic was consistent (from what I remember).

[Paganini]

Its not well known, but Florida blue (now serenity blue) is rather acidic. Someone tested and published in a pen magazine and others here on fpn have used their own equipment. Exact values not stable but acidic was consistent (from what I remember).

 

That seems... unlikely. Do you have a source? Poking around with google gives nothing except a few passing mentions from various FPN threads where posters claim to have read that WSB has a PH of around 3. There doesn't seem to be any actual data; WSB is not, for example, on Richard Binder's Beeg List O' Ink PHs. Waterman's ad copy claims that their inks are PH neutral.

 

Given that WSB is more or less universally proclaimed as THE safest thing you can put in any pen, if it is actually an acidic ink, I'd have to conclude that PH is not a very important contributor to ink safety, one way or another, making IG inks even *less* dangerous than I'd previously supposed!

 

- N

[Thymen]

https://www.indy-pen-dance.com/Inks-Report-on-the-pH-of-More-than-60-Inks.html

 

Unfortunately Waterman Serenity Blue not listed here

 

Another source:

http://www.marcuslink.com/pens/ink/ink-and-ph-levels.htm

says 'Waterman Blue = PH 3.0'

Edited May 31, 2020 by Thymen

[A Smug Dill]

That seems... unlikely. Do you have a source? Poking around with google gives nothing except a few passing mentions from various FPN threads where posters claim to have read that WSB has a PH of around 3. There doesn't seem to be any actual data;

From http://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/339505-some-ink-ph-levels-available-in-japan-but-only-a-selected-222-few/:

[Paganini]

Interesting. Thanks for the links! I observe that Waterman Havana is listed at 7.0 (dead neutral) on the markuslinks page, while Waterman Absolute Brown is listed at 4.5 on Richard Binder's Beeg List. That seems like a Really Big Difference, even accounting for difference in variables like testing temperature, carbon dioxide exposure, etc. I was under the impression that Waterman changed only the branding and not the formulae of their inks during the marketing shakeup a few years ago.

 

This Japanese link thread is fascinating. I wish there was more info about their testing procedure - it looks like that part of the graphic wasn't translated. (Sadly, I can't read Japanese... ) It makes it appear as though Waterman (Mysterious) Blue-Black is more or less equivalent to loading your pen with pure water, while WSB is barely shy of the IG inks (Platinum Blue-Black at 2, e.g.)

 

- N

[Honeybadgers]

 

Gold plated nibs are at a much higher risk to modern iron galls; plain stainless steel much less so, to the point of it being negligble.

 

I have seen pitting on plain stainless monteverde nibs constantly inked with registrars.

 

It's not negligible. The stainless steel used matters a huge amount. Steel and acid are not inert to each other.

Edited May 31, 2020 by Honeybadgers

[silverlifter]

 

I have seen pitting on plain stainless monteverde nibs constantly inked with registrars.

 

It's not negligible. The stainless steel used matters a huge amount. Steel and acid are not inert to each other.

Yes, I should have been clearer. With cheap steel/nibs, all bets are off. I've had Kaweco and Jowo steel nibs inked constantly with iron gall inks and not been able to find any damage after more than a year (in the case of the Sport).

[Paganini]

Maybe it's just me, but my Pelikan Blue-Black is most definitely not waterproof.

 

Though somewhat pricey, I think Montblanc Permanent Black and Permanent Blue are now the only expressly waterproof inks made by a pen manufacturer.

 

That's strange. My bottle of Pelikan 4001 Blue Black is new-ish - 6 months old or so - and it is the proofiest of waterproofs. Soak it, run it under the tap, it won't budge until the paper disintegrates. It is basically indistinguishable from R&K Salix - I have to make a note which is which or I can't tell them apart.

 

- N