Question On Iron Gall Ink

[kharrisma]

Hi Forum Folke,

 

I know, iron gall ink is more in the dip-nib camp than fountain pens (unless you don't mind it slowly eating your nibs), but I'm hoping some iron-gall-guru might have a couple of words of wisdom here.

 

I went to use some Old World iron gall ink yesterday; it's about 2 (maybe more) years old, and has been sitting for almost all of that time. I used it for a wedding invitation project and haven't touched it since. Anyway, after prolonged shaking and stirring, I went to write, and instead of the rich black I got the last time I used it, I've got this thin, grayish fluid (black in short stretches, but even then not the rich black of before) that has no opacity consistency at all... from nearly water-clear to a medium gray; all transparent. Even the black can be seen through; it's not opaque at all. In addition, that cap was tightly screwed down (took a channel-lock plier to open it), but it was only about half-full upon opening, and I know I didn't use that much ink for that project!

 

Is this a common characteristic of iron gall ink, or do I have something strange going on here? And more importantly, is there any way to 'refresh' this stuff, get it back to where it was (like add vinegar a few drops at a time, or something like that?) Not that it's especially expensive stuff, but it it can be restored to usefulness without much trouble, I'd rather do that than just chuck it and get more (not even sure it's the ink I want to use yet.)

 

Thanks for any input!

[JakobS]

I have never used Old World Iron Gall ink which is a dip pen only iron gall ink made in a traditional method with logwood dyes and gum arabic. But it does sound like the ink has either evaporated a bit, or solidified. From one of the retailers of this ink, it sounds like this is a common issue in so much as they recommend reconstituting the ink with distilled water, and letting it sit over night. I suppose a little trial and error will be involved, with less being more in all regards....

 

Here is actually a snippet from their help section of their website:

When I tried to use a bottle of Old World Ink again after it set on the shelf for around eight months, it was watery on the top and thick (like gouache or acrylic paint straight from the tube) on the bottom. What should I do?

With normal use the ink usually does not settle, but under some circumstances it can settle if left undisturbed for a long time. Everything is water soluble, so stirring with a coffee stick, and then shaking the jar (with the cap tightly sealed), should put it right back to normal. After this if the ink is too thick, you can add distilled water to suit your needs.

 

----

 

And though this ink is in the dip pen camp of iron gall, there are a great many fountain pen friendly iron gall inks these days: Diamine Registrars, ESSRI, R&K Salix and Scabiosa, KWZ IG, Akkerman #10 and the Platinum Classic line being some of the better ones...

Edited September 11, 2019 by JakobS

[silverlifter]

I know, iron gall ink is more in the dip-nib camp than fountain pens (unless you don't mind it slowly eating your nibs)

 

 

there are a great many fountain pen friendly iron gall inks these days: Diamine Registrars, ESSRI, R&K Salix and Scabiosa, KWZ IG, Akkerman #10 and the Platinum Classic line being some of the better ones...

 

^ Emphasized this. Your nibs, and pens, are perfectly safe with modern iron galls. Even steel nibs, if you use the aforementioned brands.

[SchaumburgSwan]

Hi,

 

sorry to say it frank, but your ink is rotten.

Much oxygen leading to much sediment over the time... shaking or heating won't help.

That ink sounds interesting, so maybe it is a good idea to get a new bottle.

 

I love IG inks like the ones mentioned above in FP's for their style and look...

 

Best

Jens

[inkstainedruth]

I haven't tried ESSRI, but I've tried various colors of the other ones listed; and that was even with stainless steel nibs in some pens. There have been where I didn't care for the colors, but the only one I didn't like overall was Diamine Registrars, because it oxidized to a washy blue-grey (had great shading, but that's all I can say on its behalf). Oh, and I picked up a vintage bottle of Sanford Pen-It (which *may* be IG ink) and I think it's gone bad -- got almost no color out of it and in general it didn't seem well behaved; OTOH, I'm only out a buck....

The real issue with iron gall inks will be with old-fashioned style nibs that are NOT stainless steel.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[kharrisma]

Thanks everyone for the replies. Shaking it for a LONG time seems to help darken it on the paper, but not all that much, and it's definitely lost that rich, dark black it had when new. I've learned that the gallic acid molecule is smaller than that of water, and can actually evaporate out through the walls of a plastic container, if it's thin-walled, as mine is. Going to put it in a glass bottle from now on... and remember to pick it up and give it a shake once a week or so!

 

I don't really use that much of it, it's an occasional-use ink for me, though the more I use it the better I'm liking it. I can pull thins that are half-a-hairs'-width with this ink, unlike all the others I've tried thus far; really just barely visible, but definitely there.... they won't reproduce, so it's definitely a by-hand-only ink in cases like that. The difference between the dark swells and the all-but-invisible hairline thins is quite dramatic, and it's growing on me.

 

I agree with Ruth re: old nibs and IG ink... I kept the one I used for the wedding invitations as an exemplar for anyone interested in using the stuff... it's got a coat of rust where the ink wetted the nib. If i'd rinsed/wiped it more frequently and neutralized it with ammonia when I was done, I might still be using it today... a vintage Gillott 303 super-flexible nib. I miss it! The new-production 303's are far from bad, but they aren't as good as the vintage ones... just a different feel to them, at least in my hand.

 

Thanks again for the input!

[kingcobradude]

It seems to me as if the iron salts have oxidized

 

I've learned that the gallic acid molecule is smaller than that of water, and can actually evaporate out through the walls of a plastic container, if it's thin-walled, as mine is.

 

Where did you read that?

[wallylynn]

I'm confident they're not. H2O is three atoms tiny and evaporates through easily. Gall is more than 3 atoms.

[BaronWulfraed]

Not to mention the sheer size of an iron atom...

[Randal6393]

Old iron gall ink has reacted with the chemicals in the bottle and will not properly oxidize to bring out the rich, dark black color. I have always replaced my dip-pen iron galls every six months or so. Old World Iron Gall is such a lovely, old-fashioned ink that it is worth replacing every so often. In fact, I only buy it when I have a project to do. McCaffrey and Blots are also good iron gall inks when fresh.

 

If you want an iron gall that does a good job with dip pens and lasts longer, give a fountain pen iron gall a shot. R & K Salix and Diamine Registrar's are two of my favorites. Being less active chemically, they seem to have a longer shelf-life than dip pen iron galls.

 

Best of luck,

[Mech-for-i]

ESSRI, Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, R&K Salix / Scabiosa, Hero 232, Diamins register, and ( I am not sure if it still is ) Koh-i-noor Document are some of the modern day fountain pen friendly Iron Gall ink .. to be frank I've been using IG ink for decades with both gold and steel nib , while I do agree they do eat the nib, particularly the plated coating ; they are not that strong to get hung up about it eating the nib ... so long you do the routine cleaning / maintenance.

 

Old world / traditional IG formula can be quite acidic and no the do not last ; sit it for like 1 month or so and you need to get a new fill ...

 

My usual document / archival ink I use these days is a roughly 1:1 mix of Iron Gall Blue Black + Carbon

[eharriett]

I have Old World ink. They're good guys. Mine is always just a but grayish, even when new. It darkened over time.

 

And btw, what others said about FP iron gall ink is correct. Platinum classic, KWZ, and Diamine Registrar's is just fine in even steel nibbed fountain pens.

 

And so is the vintage stuff. I have no problem filling my pens with vintage bottles of Skrip, Quink, Carters, Penit, and Waterman Blue Black (they have iron gall in them). Pens are just fine. And the experience is fantastic.

[Oldane]

ESSRI, Pelikan 4001 Blue Black, R&K Salix / Scabiosa, Hero 232, Diamins register, and ( I am not sure if it still is ) Koh-i-noor Document are some of the modern day fountain pen friendly Iron Gall ink ..

 

 

 

 

Agree - though I don't think Pelikan 401 Blueblack has had any IG in it for a number of years. I have a bottle and did my usual IG test by submerging writing on paper in water for a couple of hours. There was hardly any readable text on the paper after the test. As for Hero 232, don't be fooled by the very low price - it's excellent. One could also mention KWZ who has a series of fountain pen friendly inks with IG in various colors. And oh, there's also the old long since discontinued original Montblanc Blueblack which was my daily goto ink for 20 years. I stlll have a bottle of it.

[dkreider]

Sorry to reply to this so late!

 

I have found that Old World Iron Gall dehydrates very easily, and I suspect that's what happened to your ink. I keep a bottle of distilled water for rehydration, as needed. Another member posted that his iron gall ink was more grey than black initially, and this has been my experience as well. Again, this is due to the evaporation of water from the ink. When I get a new bottle of Old World, I like to leave the bottle open for a day or two, to really get that pure black.

 

It's weird, just the other day I had a similar experience: I had a bottle of Old World that was almost empty, i.e. not enough to dip and write (calligraphy). I purchased a new bottle from paperinkarts.com, my intention was to use the new bottle until there was enough space to dump in the ink from the old bottle. Only about 3 weeks passed before I opened the old bottle, and it was sludge! But, once I added some distilled water, it was fine. You can look up how much to add, but there are no rules. If you add too much, just let it evaporate.

The risk with evaporating is, the ink may get contaminated by airborne microbes, which could ruin it. But if it's an old bottle, almost empty, then it may be worth a try. I have never seen nor heard of an iron gall ink getting contaminated in this way.

 

Note: you could probably use tap water, I haven't tried this yet. The reason why tap water is "bad" is because it has ions etc. that may screw with the ink's performance.

 

Good luck

[David0966]

On 9/11/2019 at 8:21 PM, SchaumburgSwan said:

Hi,

 

sorry to say it frank, but your ink is rotten.

Much oxygen leading to much sediment over the time... shaking or heating won't help.

That ink sounds interesting, so maybe it is a good idea to get a new bottle.

 

I love IG inks like the ones mentioned above in FP's for their style and look...

 

Best

Jens

Hello,

 

I love IG in medieval hands.  Please tell me more about the style and look.

For instance, (1) they go on grey, and turn black, (2) The black is super-dark, (3) they have great hairline thins, and (4) they are period-correct.

Something more please?

[David0966]

On 9/24/2019 at 11:23 AM, eharriett said:

And the experience is fantastic.

 

I'm curious. 

 

I'm about to buy more ink.... help me feel better about it being the IG you all talked about 4 years ago please.

 

 

 

 

[Schaumburg_Swan]

1 hour ago, David0966 said:

Hello,

 

I love IG in medieval hands.  Please tell me more about the style and look.

For instance, (1) they go on grey, and turn black, (2) The black is super-dark, (3) they have great hairline thins, and (4) they are period-correct.

Something more please?

 

Hi David,

 

well, period correct inks would be even stronger inks than our high IG inks today; used with goose quills etc.

Anyway Diamine Registrar's, Akkerman #10, ESSRI and Thom's Blaufließende have some additional blue dye. They start blueish and turn cold black then.

Super dark? If the pen writes wet enorgh...

Great hairlines? Absolutely.

I've seen medieval scripts here in Möllenbeck monastery (Schaumburg, Germany) looking like writen with brown-black Gutenberg G10 ink from a wet pen.

 

Best

Jens

 

[lapis]

1 hour ago, Schaumburg_Swan said:

 

 

I've seen medieval scripts here in Möllenbeck monastery (Schaumburg, Germany) looking like written with brown-black Gutenberg G10 ink from a wet pen.

I'll buy that (actually I already have done so, three times over the last few years). If you're really into medieval stuff, this is what to get. Turns -- as Jens said -- to brown/black, no blue here. And for 30 ml under 10 bucks, can't complain.

[David0966]

Thanks for the replies.

The idea of using something that is (more or less) the same as used hundreds of years ago has great appeal to me.

Why exactly do folks like IG inks?

(My guess is the very opaque dark blacks, and very thin hairlines.  Anything else, besides it being such an old ink?)

 

[Karmachanic]

2 hours ago, David0966 said:

very thin hairlines.

 

Are made by the nib/quill regardless of ink, in dependence upon the flexibility and cut of said nib/quill.  As seen here.