Ink Flow Problem Penbbs 456 Vacuum Filled Fountain Pen

[lawrenceloklok]

Because of the good comments and reviews on the forum, i have recently purchased a penbbs 456. However, my pen always ran out of ink right after i inked up the pen. I have unscrewed the bottom cap and can say the ink is blocked by the ink tension. Anyone have the same issue with me ? How do you solve this problem? Thank you!

Edited August 27, 2019 by lawrenceloklok

[drathbun]

Sorry you haven't received an answer to this question. I love my 456! It sounds like the end of the piston that seals the section isn't disengaging far enough to allow that bubble of air to move and ink to flow back into the section. Have you tried pulling back on the piston rod gently to give it a little more "breathing" room? Perhaps a closer examination is necessary. I just did a video on the PenBBS 355 and filled it with water with a couple of drops of ink so I can clearly see what's going on inside the pen. I was fascinated to see how when you unscrew the cap, how the little bubble forms and then moves back up into the ink chamber to allow the ink to flow. Maybe using water and watching under a loupe will help sort out the difficulties with yours? If it isn't working properly and you bought it from Beini on Etsy, send her a note.

[Ryanlim]

A bit late response, hopefully your problem has been solved. If not, there is a great video by the nibsmith on Youtube who explained how to remove the rubber seal in the Custom 823 to avoid the "seal lock" after tightening the bottom cap. This allows for free flow of ink without loosening the bottom cap. But you need the TWSBI wrench. Or you can order this wrench from Beini on Etsy. Hope this is useful.

[lawrenceloklok]

I still can't find a perfect solution to fix this problem. I pulled in and out the rod and let the ink pass through the piston, but after using the pen a while, this situation happen again. It just like the water tension forms a seal with the piston and the ink doesn't pass through the nib. I have even grinded down the material of the piston, but it just help a little bit. I have taken reference from twsbi vac, but I can't figure out of this situation doesn't happen in twsbi vac.

[drathbun]

I still can't find a perfect solution to fix this problem. I pulled in and out the rod and let the ink pass through the piston, but after using the pen a while, this situation happen again. It just like the water tension forms a seal with the piston and the ink doesn't pass through the nib. I have even grinded down the material of the piston, but it just help a little bit. I have taken reference from twsbi vac, but I can't figure out of this situation doesn't happen in twsbi vac.

Try cleaning the nib/feed/section with water with a drop of dish soap (and a drop of ammonia if you have it) mixed in with the water. Then rinse with clear water and dry completely before inking again.

[Lester Brooke]

Im planning to buy a vacuum filled pen, so Im very interested in the problems of such a mechanism, and how to deal with them. I watched a video from someone who bought two WS 699, of which one had its piston not reaching far down enough to seal off the nib chamber adjacent to the feed. Inconsistencies with penbbs pens are rare, but shouldnt be prematurely ruled out as a cause, as Douglas Rathbun implies. But before making a complaint I would, as Douglas suggests, watch the operation under magnification to get some hint. In some cases certain inks dont get along well with certain pens. Have you tried with only colored water? With a hint of detergent added? Have you checked de inside of the small ink chamber for silicone grease? A greasy surface enhances surface tension issues. So Dougs advise to do another thorough cleaning and complete drying seems sensible for that part. But primarily: a thorugh investigation is the foundation of successful problem solving. Do the same with your healthy TWSBI snd compare every detail. There must be a difference there, just waiting to be discovered, right? If you solve this problem it could be so very helpful to many of us.

[drathbun]

Im planning to buy a vacuum filled pen, so Im very interested in the problems of such a mechanism, and how to deal with them. I watched a video from someone who bought two WS 699, of which one had its piston not reaching far down enough to seal off the nib chamber adjacent to the feed. Inconsistencies with penbbs pens are rare, but shouldnt be prematurely ruled out as a cause, as Douglas Rathbun implies. But before making a complaint I would, as Douglas suggests, watch the operation under magnification to get some hint. In some cases certain inks dont get along well with certain pens. Have you tried with only colored water? With a hint of detergent added? Have you checked de inside of the small ink chamber for silicone grease? A greasy surface enhances surface tension issues. So Dougs advise to do another thorough cleaning and complete drying seems sensible for that part. But primarily: a thorugh investigation is the foundation of successful problem solving. Do the same with your healthy TWSBI snd compare every detail. There must be a difference there, just waiting to be discovered, right? If you solve this problem it could be so very helpful to many of us.

Excellent recommendations Lester.

[lawrenceloklok]

I have completely disassembled the penbbs 456 and cleaned it with tap water and tissue. Thus, no dirt and silicone grease on the shaft and piston. I tested it with color water with a hint of detergent. The result is as follows

;

Edited January 31, 2020 by lawrenceloklok

[lawrenceloklok]

I have another 456, i just cleaned the pen and filled it with Cross Black, it seems the pen encounters the same problem.

[janicec]

So glad I found your post (though almost 2 years later...). It was driving me crazy to think that only my 456 had this issue. I tried unscrewing the cap/ pushing the plunger further back/ using different inks but nothing helps (same as what you have shown with the color water). Now I have to shake the pen vigorously every few pages to let the ink through, which is very messy and annoying. Have you by any chance found a solution? 

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

I am not sure if it helps or not, but considering the improvements over CARTRIDGES or CONVERTERS from various manufacturers, adding a small ball or spring into the ink chamber may help. Just a thought. 

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Naoki NISHIKAWA

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

Here's an example of the improvement.

 

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

What some people did to solve the issue (DIY).

 

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

Now, the product does not have the issue as the manufacturer introduced the improved version of the product.

 

Edited March 13, 2021 by Naoki NISHIKAWA

[janicec]

Thanks, Naoki! I'll get my hands on a steel ball and a wrench - hopefully this will solve the issue. 

[Naoki NISHIKAWA]

On 3/15/2021 at 7:43 PM, janicec said:

Thanks, Naoki! I'll get my hands on a steel ball and a wrench - hopefully this will solve the issue. 

 

Good luck! Hopefully, a small steel ball breaks the surface tension...

Edited March 17, 2021 by Naoki NISHIKAWA

[Denver]

Loosening the cap and pulling the piston back 5mm was something I also had to do to keep my PENBBS 268 from running out of ink after a short writing session, and I think I now know why. The pens also had hard starts, and I initially cleaned the pens exhibiting this problem, adjusted the tines and changed the feeds, but these measures didn't help. Two years ago PENBBS pens had a nut on the top of the piston rod that extended all the way up into the end cap (see attached photo). My newer 268 and 456 pens stopped short, and full disassembly revealed a machining defect on all my PENBBS vac fillers acquired in 2021. (I suspect that the argument that this was intentional and intended to prevent in flight leaks is rationalization for the defect because the pen didn't have this in the beginning.) If you look at the top of the piston rod, you may find a shoulder that keeps the piston rod from extending all the way into the end cap. You may also note on inspection of an empty pen that the conical portion of the piston fully blocks the internal opening of the section like a cork in a bottle. Further, the larger rubber part of the piston is pushed against the face of the section and is even deformed by the pressure when the end cap is tightened. Combined these two issues isolate ink in the section available to the feed and limit the amount of ink that can be used when writing . . . unless, you loosen the cap and pull back on the piston rod to position the piston closer to the middle of the widened area in the ink chamber. I have the ability to re-machine the piston rod and remove the shoulder so that the nut on the end of the rod can reach the top of the cap. This fixes the problem with new 268 and 456 vac fillers from PENBBS. If the piston is in the middle of the widened portion of the ink chamber, you should be able to get ink to slosh past it and fill the section near the opening to the feed.

[Denver]

Attached photos show a PENBBS 268 pen before and after correcting the shoulder on the piston rod that isolated ink in the section.

 

 

 

 

 

[Denver]

This is how ink should flow inside the 2021 pen (corrected) with the end cap fully tightened.

[Denver]

I also removed the conical central rubber part of the piston, and this also facilitates ink flow into the section immediately above the feed. PENBBS doesn't provide instructions, but it seems that the conical rubber piece may have been intended to act as a cork during flying. Really? An engineer who probably doesn't use fountain pens must have come up with this "brilliant" idea.