Buying A Pelikan M900 Toledo

[Gobblecup]

I am planning on getting one in the next month or so, where is a good place to buy it? What are the differences to the smaller Toledo besides size? What are your favorite things about this pen? Also I would love some enabling and pictures of the pen in question! Thanks

[Barutti]

Hi Gobblecup,

 

Below some photos with M900 (M800 size) and M700 (standart M400 size) Toledo's. Main differences besides the sizes and what is common to regular series is details of engravings- M700 sleeve details made in more accurate manner and very precise.

Both pens I purchase from e-bay, both were used and without boxes.

 

[Bo Bo Olson]

Sigh cubed. Only seen one of them in real life.

 

Have to sell off many pens to get one.

[praxim]

No time for pictures at the moment. Otherwise, allow me to enable.

 

I have an M900. I do not expect to regret pen expenditures and I certainly do not regret this one. Bought new, in another country from you.

[Gobblecup]

Thank you Barutti for the wonderful images and detailing the differences you notice between the two models. I was thinking that the 900 would have more attention to detail based on the price. However, I assume some difference is due to different craftsmen perhaps?

 

I appreciate all of the enabling!

[Nyanzilla]

I decided to buy a M900 Toledo as my last Pelikan pen. I have so many by now that there are only about three Pelikans left which I want to add to my collection.

[Kalessin]

I just bought an M910 old style (with the engraved chrome logo on the cap, and the chrome disk at the end of the turning knob), and have been getting used to it. I love the pattern and the appearance, but there are some things to be aware of:

 

1) The metal binde (barrel sleeve) plus the metal piston mechanism makes this a heavy Pelikan. Luckily, I like heavy pens as well as light ones.

 

2) The artwork cuts are precisely done, and beautiful, but the little tiny edges can certainly be felt on the side of my hand as I write.

 

3) Having a 910 makes me want to get a 900, a 700, and a 710. I will probably not be able to afford any of these for a long time.

 

If you haven't yet, read the Toledo topic that's pinned to the top of this forum: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/211924-toledo/

[1nkulus]

The M910 is definitely on my buy list, either black or yellow.

I like the silver trim rather than gold.

[1nkulus]

I just bought an M910 old style (with the engraved chrome logo on the cap, and the chrome disk at the end of the turning knob), and have been getting used to it. I love the pattern and the appearance,

 

Great choice.

Enjoy the reams of happiness. It is my definitely my favourite Toledo, both the old and new variants.

[Pelikanyo]

I purchased my M900 Toledo in the late 1980's, and have used it every day. With all the pens in my collection, it's the one I always return to as my favorite. The engraved detail varies from pen to pen both by chance and intentionally. The three primary engravers all have slightly different styles and lines. On some you will find five wing feathers on the large bird, and on others only four. Also, if you can find an original West German piece with it's original nib, these nibs were "preferred" by many. Bottom line...it's a beautiful and fantastic piece...old or newer...big or small. Good luck and enjoy!

 

Warm regards,

Pelikanyo Paul

Edited April 26, 2019 by Pelikanyo

[Gobblecup]

Hello again friends, I have finally ordered a Toledo after months of saving, deliberating, and searching for the right one. I ended up getting an uninked old style M910 engraved by CT for less than I expected to pay. Certainly a good deal from another FPNer. I will post pictures when I do get it and the time. Thanks all for your kind remarks in this thread thus far. It is good to know so many are long happy with the ownership of their Toledos!

[Bo Bo Olson]

With a 700 one can use monotone regular flex nibs of '82-97 or vintage '50-65 semi-flex nibs.

In the 700 has been around in a while, so had the thinner, cleaner lined regular flex and semi-flex of those era's.

I find the double kugal/ball modern nib to be fat, blobby, and the line due to the nib being a round ball, not clean. But if you are more interested in 'looks' of a two toned nib..............get a modern semi-nail.

 

It is possible that there are the W.Germany and to '97 two toned 18 K nibs to be had in a nice springy regular flex.

[Gobblecup]

With a 700 one can use monotone regular flex nibs of '82-97 or vintage '50-65 semi-flex nibs.

In the 700 has been around in a while, so had the thinner, cleaner lined regular flex and semi-flex of those era's.

I find the double kugal/ball modern nib to be fat, blobby, and the line due to the nib being a round ball, not clean. But if you are more interested in 'looks' of a two toned nib..............get a modern semi-nail.

 

It is possible that there are the W.Germany and to '97 two toned 18 K nibs to be had in a nice springy regular flex.

I agree with you that the 700 offers a lot more in terms of nib variety, however, I do not always have such a strong abhorrence for modern Pelikan nibs. In fact I find those blobs to make wonderful italic nibs, which is what many of mine become. I rarely have time to take advantage of flexibility in my writing as it requires an entirely different cursive script than I normally write with. It takes up more space on the page and generally seems to be more for looks than even the considerations of pen size, because its showy penmanship. Regardless, I have collected many vintage nibs, from both eras you refer to. I just dont often take advantage of them in my daily journaling and note taking. Therefore the Kugel nibs, the italic grinds, they have become my best friends for fast writing that still looks good. That said, nothing compares with vintage flex in terms of feel!

 

Edit: I should add: I do plan to get a 700 someday, I am not sure when. I first want the red and the yellow 910s. I prefer the size and weight of an M8xx/9xx sized pen hands down.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Gobblecup

[Bo Bo Olson]

I don't see the Semi-flex as a flex nib, but as a flair nib. There is IMO no special cursive script needed in it is not a superflex nib. It is not semi-flex. There is quite a ways from semi-flex to superflex.....

 

One just writes and one gets flair......the first letter or part of letter is wider, the loops of a l or b is wider than stiffer nibs, there is a couple ways to cross a T that has a bit of flair, the trail of a last word e narrows nicely. .perhaps at the end of a paragraph, if one feels like it a fancy decender can be made.............and best of all I don't have to do a thing but write.

 

""""I rarely have time to take advantage of flexibility in my writing as it requires an entirely different cursive script ????? than I normally write with. It takes up more space on the page??? (two, three letters a line??) and generally seems to be more for looks than even the considerations of pen size, because its showy penmanship."""" ?????

 

The looks of flair is automatic and ....unless you push a semi-flex looking for some sort of superflex fancy. Flair is not a drawn letter.

 

My guess is you must be overstressing your semi-flex nib and drawing fat letters instead of writing normal.

I just scribble along ...doing nothing special, and flair is automatic. Don''t get much flair in regular flex/Japanese 'soft' unless one is mashing the nib.........don't have to mash a semi-flex to get that old fashioned fountain pen flair.

 

I rant against over stressing a semi-flex very, very often. All one sees in Youtube or someone selling a semi-flex pen on Ebay is over stressing. People selling sprung as you watch, for your convince semi-flex nibs.

Some nice poster, linked me to such, asking my opinion of buying. I recommend against. So I stole a couple pictures to show what I think is overstressing a semi-flex.

It, maxi-semi-flex and regular flex are part of a 3 X max flex set. When I started using my first semi-flex a 140 OB, I was ham fisted and sitting at max, and that is slower....but the natural easy to 2 X from 1X is nothing that slows one down.....It took me some three months to lighten my Hand, down to not maxing the nib all the time or much at all...........and if and when one wants to add a touch more fancy, one can demand it.

A good poster said, "Stub and CI are 100% line variation. (Believe he was referring to modified stiffer nibs) Semi-flex is line variation On Demand."

Vintage German semi-flex is factory stubbed as normal issue

 

This poor nib has been over stressed....if it's not already sprung, it will be by the new owner, in he thinks he's got a super flex nib.

The first quick fox is ok, the second is 'maxed' at 3 X , the funny X's are really, really over stressing the nib. That's at least 4 X perhaps more.

 

 

 

...Yep, that is dead slow, and one has to change one's script to maltreat a nib so much.

 

There are so many modified nibs today that write to at least the first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex or even Wet Noodle.....(May not be great on snapback, but when one can worry about snapback one has finally gotten a good superflex nib.) But if one is most worried about how fat they can write a letter, usually don't have any interest in snapback.

The ones who can write over in the Penmanship subsection worry about how fast a nib snaps back to the narrow line than how wide they can make a letter. Skinny wider to skinny.....not Fat, Fatter and Fattist.

Semi-flex is for flair, not fancy. Maxi-semi-flex can give you some easier fancy up to 3X.....there are modified inexpensive 'flex' nibs to be had if one wants fat letters.

Edited July 6, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[Gobblecup]

I don't see the Semi-flex as a flex nib, but as a flair nib. There is IMO no special cursive script needed in it is not a superflex nib. It is not semi-flex. There is quite a ways from semi-flex to superflex.....

 

One just writes and one gets flair......the first letter or part of letter is wider, the loops of a l or b is wider than stiffer nibs, there is a couple ways to cross a T that has a bit of flair, the trail of a last word e narrows nicely. .perhaps at the end of a paragraph, if one feels like it a fancy decender can be made.............and best of all I don't have to do a thing but write.

 

""""I rarely have time to take advantage of flexibility in my writing as it requires an entirely different cursive script ????? than I normally write with. It takes up more space on the page??? (two, three letters a line??) and generally seems to be more for looks than even the considerations of pen size, because its showy penmanship."""" ?????

 

The looks of flair is automatic and ....unless you push a semi-flex looking for some sort of superflex fancy. Flair is not a drawn letter.

 

My guess is you must be overstressing your semi-flex nib and drawing fat letters instead of writing normal.

I just scribble along ...doing nothing special, and flair is automatic. Don''t get much flair in regular flex/Japanese 'soft' unless one is mashing the nib.........don't have to mash a semi-flex to get that old fashioned fountain pen flair.

 

I rant against over stressing a semi-flex very, very often. All one sees in Youtube or someone selling a semi-flex pen on Ebay is over stressing. People selling sprung as you watch, for your convince semi-flex nibs.

Some nice poster, linked me to such, asking my opinion of buying. I recommend against. So I stole a couple pictures to show what I think is overstressing a semi-flex.

It, maxi-semi-flex and regular flex are part of a 3 X max flex set. When I started using my first semi-flex a 140 OB, I was ham fisted and sitting at max, and that is slower....but the natural easy to 2 X from 1X is nothing that slows one down.....It took me some three months to lighten my Hand, down to not maxing the nib all the time or much at all...........and if and when one wants to add a touch more fancy, one can demand it.

A good poster said, "Stub and CI are 100% line variation. (Believe he was referring to modified stiffer nibs) Semi-flex is line variation On Demand."

Vintage German semi-flex is factory stubbed as normal issue

 

This poor nib has been over stressed....if it's not already sprung, it will be by the new owner, in he thinks he's got a super flex nib.

The first quick fox is ok, the second is 'maxed' at 3 X , the funny X's are really, really over stressing the nib. That's at least 4 X perhaps more.

 

 

 

...Yep, that is dead slow, and one has to change one's script to maltreat a nib so much.

 

There are so many modified nibs today that write to at least the first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex or even Wet Noodle.....(May not be great on snapback, but when one can worry about snapback one has finally gotten a good superflex nib.) But if one is most worried about how fat they can write a letter, usually don't have any interest in snapback.

The ones who can write over in the Penmanship subsection worry about how fast a nib snaps back to the narrow line than how wide they can make a letter. Skinny wider to skinny.....not Fat, Fatter and Fattist.

Semi-flex is for flair, not fancy. Maxi-semi-flex can give you some easier fancy up to 3X.....there are modified inexpensive 'flex' nibs to be had if one wants fat letters.

I suppose I must use a fairly light touch when I write because even with the most flexible of vintage pelikan nibs that will go 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure I get very little to no expression with my normal writing. I do enjoy the feel, but it hardly ever translates to flair in my writing. At least not to the point that I cannot get pleasure from firmer nibs. My writing with my early script nibs looks fairly the same as with my more modern nibs unless I try intentionally to coax line variation from the nib. My normal writing applies no pressure, it allows the weight of the pen alone to do the work for me. I think even small amounts of pressure, not stressing a nib, requires me to change my hand position to a degree that is not practical for long writing sessions (300-1000 words without long pauses or capping of my pen). Granted, I am not trying to demote the extreme value and enjoyment you or even myself can get out of vintage nibs. However I much prefer the always on line variation of a grind to the on demand line variation of flex for every day journaling and letter writing. The best of both worlds would be my super-flex BB 140 nib which is a stub shape, that gives me on demand flexy flair for a signature but consistent and non demanding line variation in normal text. Thank you Bo Bo for sharing your knoweldge!

 

Edit: I tried to upload two writing samples, one of my writing with a 100N with a fine script nib, the other of a M605 with a modern medium italic M6xx nib. There is far more line variation visible in the second sample than in the first. It is just my no pressure everyday writing. The files were too large to upload sadly so Ill try another time.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Gobblecup

[Bo Bo Olson]

""""of vintage pelikan nibs that will go 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure I get very little to no expression with my normal writing.

The best of both worlds would be my super-flex BB 140 nib which is a stub shape, that gives me on demand flexy flair for a signature but consistent and non demanding line variation in normal text.""""""""

 

I didn't know a 140 came in superflex, I have heard someone had one in maxi-semi-flex. My two are normal semi-flex.

I have a post war 100n in first stage of superflex. Easy Full Flex, the stage under wet noodle, it will go 5 X. I strive to not go over 4 X, as explained below.

 

""""even with the most flexible of vintage pelikan nibs that will go 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure..!!!!!!

 

I have an Ibis, 500 and 400nn that maxi-semi-flex, total I have 16 maxi-semi-flex , four are Osmia Supra nibs. One Geha, two MB, the rest are no names.

I have 29 semi-flex, Three '50-54 400's and two 140's.

None of the semi-flex nor maxi-semi-flex 'go 4-5 tine spread with out some force.

 

I do have a 100n in Easy Full Flex, super flex that will go 5 X. That is my only Pelikan that will go more than 3 X......with out it feeling that is enough.

 

I started off pretty heavy handed with my 140 OB. It took me close to 3 months to stop maxing that nib to 3 X all the time, and get a lighter Hand..........it worked in I'd not noticed the next semi-flex I got....was actually a maxi-semi-flex that 400nn OF......but then again I'd not discovered maxi at that time. I wasn't 'really' light handed, still am not, but my Hand is so much lighter than when I use to max my 140's nib to 3 X all the time. Now if I want to demand some wider line variation, I do,

I get the natural flair with out being heavy handed.

 

 

There are superflex pens that have only 4 X....I have just one....there are superflex pens that have only 5 X....have a couple of them perhaps a 6 X Easy Full Flex (am forgetful, it's been a while since I worried about it) ........A couple of 5-6X that are between an Easy Full flex and Wet Noodle,(also and a 6X and two 7 X wet noodles.

I don't really use my superflex all that much. But them I could say 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure.

 

Having read Richard Binder's fine article on metal fatigue....which I call 'how to spring your nib' I strive to never max my superflex pens.............In I only max my semi&maxi to 3 X and not often, I don't worry about them. My Pelikan 100n, which goes to 5 X, I strive to keep it at no more than 4 X.

My two 7 X Wet Noodles a 52 and a Soennecken, I strive to keep it at 6 X...............but there my problem lays on sweating to make them write XXF, thinking to make them write EF....and still being a tad heavy handed scribbling at F.

 

That will go 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure..!!!!!!

We have a major translation problem about excessive pressure..............A regular flex has to be well mashed to get to 3X a light down stroke. You can not write with it when maxed to 3 X.......................you don't want to take a regular flex to more than 3 X.....no reason for it, can't do anything with it.

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to get to a max of 3 X. They are a robust nib, that some what heavy handed can abuse as they learn to write with a lighter Hand.

Maxi, half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3 X. I don't know how robust the maxi really is, cause my Hand was lighter when I started using one. and I wasn't pressing hard enough to notice how much easier it was to widen.

 

At no time do I feel I can spread a semi or even maxi (out side an EF perhaps) to more than 3 X, with out stressing the nib.......................

 

IMO our excessive pressure is quite different

 

Could be you are using very wet ink and a 80g copy paper, all of which will make a nib write wider..............because I can not understand ....vintage Pelikan nibs that will go 4-5x tine spread without excessive pressure.

 

I just pressed a semi&maxi, both only went 3 X. Both are Osmia's the only company to 'mark' different nibs for semi&maxi....and gold is not better than their grand steel....great nibs.

Edited July 7, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[Gobblecup]

Bo Bo you honestly lost me I have tried to follow. In your diverse ratings of vintage flex, you seem to lose accounting of the variance of nib performances. It seems impossible to you that I could have nibs that flex over 3x. Okay. But you really get lost on THE POINT. I do not get any major line variation from vintage nibs without any effort!!!!! I DONT GET ANY LINE VARIATION FROM VINTAGE FLEX NIBS. NOT WITHOUT EFFORT. I do not get it. Maybe we write with different pressure. We almost certainly do. I think you must be ham-fisted. With my light touch I do not get any line variations. Modern nibs with grinds work better. End of story.

[Gobblecup]

Frankly, this topic was intended to be all about Toledos and how beautiful they are. Now it seems to be about Bobo and nibs. I am sorry I managed this thread so poorly. Alas. I still want to see others toledos. :/ #hijacked

Edited July 8, 2019 by Gobblecup

[Bo Bo Olson]

Many folks don't care for balance much either, being from a generation that has none.

 

I'm glad for you you like modern Pelikan nibs.

Nibs is where one era differs from another, and once a Toledo did have semi-flex or regular flex nibs, and they are available also. That you don't care for them fine.

I don't see that as hijacking.

 

I've done my simple system many times.....how ever many don't have a regular flex nib, like a Pelikan 120, or 200, which is the basis of my system, so it can't be compared with out that nib to rate nibs in my 1/2 and 1/2 system.

 

And you are over stressing your nib....in it's your nib, fine....but please don't sell them with out telling the truth about your 4-5 X tine spread sprung nibs.

[Kalessin]

The old-style M910 toledo is a special pen, and I bought one as a belated gift to myself for a big milestone birthday. I bought mine in slightly used condition, and it's great to write with. While it is heavy for an M800, I like heavy pens.

 

It was originally available only with F or M nib from the factory (probably other nibs by special order), and they used the regular two-tone nib. I also bought a new BB fully-rhodinated nib, but it has no line variation, and so I may be having it ground to offer a little bit of stubbish line variation.