Rigid Vs. Soft: Some Observations

[TheDutchGuy]

In my 20-odd collection I've got a number of high-quality pens with rigid nibs ("nails") as well as some with soft, bouncy nibs. I'm not talking about true flex nibs, just feathery nibs that give a little when writing. Apart from the obvious difference in rigidity I've noticed some more distinctions (see below) between the two kinds. There's more to it than just a cushiony feeling with soft nibs that's not there with rigid nibs. The soft nibs have tines that move much more: relative to the feed as well as relative to each other. These movements, when coupled to my rather poor writing technique, lead to quite noticeable differences compared to rigid pens. These differences have nothing to do with nib material, I've noticed it both in steel and gold nibs.

 

My personal preference is definitely towards soft, bouncy nibs. I adore that cushiony feeling. But due to these differences, I tend to use the soft pens more in controlled conditions (correspondence, long sessions, a proper table, etc) and the rigid pens more in less controlled conditions (travel, quick notes, etc).

 

Not sure if I'm the only one, but if not, then this might be of use to those who are wondering if they should buy a soft or a hard nib.

 

Here's what I found:

 

-the soft nibs tend to make the inks shade more

 

-rotating a soft nib when writing (a bad habit of mine) will not feel much different: the nib is forgiving. But the pen's performance goes down a bit (i.e. giving me an occasional skip). As an exception, my Visconti is very forgiving to rotation.

 

-with a soft nib, on downstrokes, the first part is dry-ish, so most of the ink shows up in the bottom half of the stroke. I assume this is because the soft nib moves away from the feed somewhat on a downstroke and then the feed 'catches up' when I get to the bottom half of the stroke. Note that I tend to write very fast downstrokes, another bad habit. PS I'm not talking about a hard-start here.

 

-for some reason that I haven't figured out yet, on my soft-nibbed pens the ink tends to dry on the nib more when the pen is not in use, i.e. after a day or two the first few letters might be a bit of a struggle.

 

In contrast, my rigid pens will tell me if I rotate the nib by becoming toothy, so they're less forgiving, but their performance won't go down. They tend to have more equal flow on downstrokes, the ink flow always keeps up, which I assume is due to the tines moving much less. And they're always ready to write, regardless of how long it's been.

 

For the sake of reference, some of my rigid pens are:

-3 modern 14k Sailors (HMF, HM, HM)

-a modern 18k Cross Peerless 125 (with stock M Sailor nib)

-a vintage 14C Montblanc 146 EF

-a vintage 14k Sheaffer PFM-III M

-a vintage 14k Parker 51 M

-3 modern steel-nibbed Kawecos (Classic Sport F, Dia2 M, Sport 1.1)

 

...and some of my soft pens are:

-a steel-nibbed Leonardo Momento Zero F

-a steel-nibbed Leonardo Furore F

-a vintage 14k Montblanc 342 F

-a modern 23k palladium dreamtouch Visconti Homo Sapiens Midi Lava Steel F.

[Bo Bo Olson]

In my 20-odd collection I've got a number of high-quality pens with rigid nibs ("nails") as well as some with soft, bouncy nibs. I'm not talking about true flex nibs, just feathery nibs that give a little when writing. Apart from the obvious difference in rigidity I've noticed some more distinctions (see below) between the two kinds.

 

There's more to it than just a cushiony feeling with soft nibs that's not there with rigid nibs. The soft nibs have tines that move much more: relative to the feed as well as relative to each other. These movements, when coupled to my rather poor writing technique, lead to quite noticeable differences compared to rigid pens.

 

These differences have nothing to do with nib material, I've noticed it both in steel and gold nibs.

 

My personal preference is definitely towards soft, bouncy nibs. I adore that cushiony feeling. But due to these differences, I tend to use the soft pens more in controlled conditions (correspondence, long sessions, a proper table, etc) and the rigid pens more in less controlled conditions (travel, quick notes, etc).

 

Not sure if I'm the only one, but if not, then this might be of use to those who are wondering if they should buy a soft or a hard nib.

 

Here's what I found:

 

-the soft nibs tend to make the inks shade more

 

-rotating a soft nib when writing (a bad habit of mine) will not feel much different: the nib is forgiving. But the pen's performance goes down a bit (i.e. giving me an occasional skip). As an exception, my Visconti is very forgiving to rotation.......................(((If you tend to rotate/cant your nibs often, look for vintage German semi-flex obliques.)

 

-with a soft nib, on downstrokes, the first part is dry-ish, so most of the ink shows up in the bottom half of the stroke. ((A great description of shading )

 

I assume this is because the soft nib moves away from the feed somewhat on a downstroke and then the feed 'catches up' when I get to the bottom half of the stroke. Note that I tend to write very fast downstrokes, another bad habit. PS I'm not talking about a hard-start here.

 

?????-for some reason that I haven't figured out yet, on my soft-nibbed pens the ink tends to dry on the nib more when the pen is not in use, i.e. after a day or two the first few letters might be a bit of a struggle.

((((I tend to have a lot of pens inked....normally @ 17 so have a rubber sponge cup for stamps that i dip the nib in if slow to start.)))

 

 

 

Soft is what the Japanese users seem to be calling regular flex...........regular flex was once regular issue.

Pelikan 120, Geha School pen, Pelikan 200/100/150 are regular flex nibs. '82-97 400 later 800&600, also.

I don't know French pens.

 

Your descriptions are quite good!

 

I don't have any problem with note and go with regular flex or semi-flex...but may have had my Hand lightened in the first three months of semi-flex use...........I can scribble just as fast with a nail as a semi-flex...............one does have a retired English/French teacher on call for deciphering fast writing. Right?

 

Semi-flex would be 'soft' ++..............easy flair....but more care needed between paper and ink

to shade in semi-flex due to ease of tine spread semi-flex is a wetter nib.

 

I've come to like the nice springy ride of a regular flex/'soft' nib....and M is a good shading or glitter ink nib. M is better on the rougher laid or linen paper.

[AAAndrew]

Softness in a nib used to be much more desirable, especially to those who still remembered the quill. In early days of metallic pens, makers and reviewers talked about a pen's "action" which incorporated softness, flex, smoothness, etc...

 

Some makers tried for softness with materials, some with physical cut-outs or modifications.

 

For an early American maker who seemed to focus on the mid-pen spring you call softness, check out Myer Phineas, a maker in NY in the 1840's-60's. In the article I show the only known example of one of his pens, and it shows the pierces that greatly reduce the amount of material in the center of the pen. This gives the pen a bit of spring. He also was awarded a patent for another design that also used cut-outs to reduce the amount of material and add spring to the center of the pen. (see the article linked to).

 

Others tried to use different materials, and they were often called "amalgam" pens. This Rhoads and Sons (aka Rhoades and Sons) ad from 1853 captures the concerns well. When it mentions "the nib of the pen" they are talking about just above the tines.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I talk more about "action" in this article on my website.

Edited April 16, 2019 by AAAndrew

[Karmachanic]

Hmm. I have soft nibs on five pens, none of which dry out after even a week or two.

[Honeybadgers]

I tend to prefer soft nibs in basically every situation as long as they aren't prone to hard starting.

[surprise123]

One exception to this "soft = forgiving" is my OM Lamy 2000. The nib is very bouncy and wet, but rotate it the slightest and it will tell you. As in, screaming in your ear, "STOP THAT!".

 

I find Parker 51 nibs to be on the side of wet, but stiff. This is why bold Parker 51 nibs are so valuable.

[Freddy]

Very interesting.....Thanks...

Personal references likes/dislikes

History ?

Some not dryin' out

Likes soft nibs

Personally..I never met a pen I didn't like.

Surprise 123 "wet, but stiff.....so valuable.." That's a good one...{thumbsupthingie}

Fred

I love the colorful clothes she wears And the way the sunlight plays upon her hair

I hear the sound of a gentle word On the wind that lifts her perfume through the air......

..Good, good , good , good vibrations She's giving me the excitations

I'm pickin' up good vibrations..........................................

[pajaro]

I find this confusing. Soft, hard, nail, regular flex, semi-flex, sounds like black is white and up is down.

[AAAndrew]

It all comes down to movement.

 

Soft = movement (flexing) in body of the nib, does not relate to spread of tines. This can be accomplished by physical modifications (cuttings, pierces), or material (thin or alloy)

 

hard = nail = doesn't move, flex, bend or open at all without damaging levels of pressure. Think modern pens like TWSBI.

 

Flex (as it's talked about today) = movement of tines apart. Can vary widely by how easily the tines spread (how much pressure you have to exert to spread the tines, which is sometimes confusingly talked about as how "soft" a flex nib is), how far they move apart, how quickly they move back to neutral position, etc...

[Bo Bo Olson]

soft, is what I call 'Springy' when talking of a Falcon, modern MB or the grand Lamy Imporium....good tine bend with only 2 X tine spread.

Yes I know modified Falcon nibs are pressed out to 5X superflex by some.

 

I developed a flex rating system, but with out a regular flex pen, it don't work.

Regular flex nibs use to be normal regular issue....back in the day of semi-vintage or vintage. The Pelikan 200/(100/150) is that today. Seems to be a very rare flex rate. Some Esterbrooks, Waterman, Shaeffer, and Wearever or Venus pens were regular flex.

 

Parjaro

Nail= 1 X the stiff nib has no tine flex nor tine spread. Very, very many nails, P-51, Townsend, Pelikan 800.

Semi-nail, can be mashed out to 2 X tine spread....not much tine bend. P-75, post '97 Pelikan 400&600

 

Regular flex/soft, semi-flex, maxi-semi-flex belong to the same tine spread set of 3 X vs a light down stroke.

Regular flex the nib can be mashed out to 3 X tine spread vs a light down stroke.. The Pelikan 200's, '82-97 era 400/600/800 and the Pelikan in house 1000. Some Esterbrook nibs I have. Wasn't in the States so didn't chase US pens.

 

Semi-flex needs only half that pressure to to 3 X. Some English; Swan and others, 40's Eversharp, and German pens from '50-70. MB, Geha, Pelikan and many more. Factory modified Pilots are semi-flex.

 

The rarer maxi-semi-flex (a term invented by me) half of that, or 1/4th the pressure needed to max a regular flex. More Osmia the Supra nib....but I have Geha, MB and Pelikan also in this flex rate. Had an English Wyvern that I swapped for an Osmia both in this flex rate.

 

I have 29 semi-flex and 16 maxi-semi-flex pens.

 

"Soft"/Springy, good tine bend often more than regular flex but only 2 X tine spread. Not as much as semi-flex. I rate this as a stand alone flex rate....because tine spread don't match tine bend.

 

Superflex requires less pressure for both tine spread and bend. Sometimes one only does only 4 X, often 5-6 X and rarely 7 X a light down stroke...................many pens are over stressed to 7 X to sell or on Youtube Olympic Splits programs.

 

For 'noobie's to superflex....my system works fine. To those with a number of superflex pens, there is much variance and the borders blur. I have a couple superflex that one time I might say that is a Wet Noodle, but when I compare they fall towards Easy Full Flex....so are not quite Wet Noodle but are a bit easier to flex than Easy Full Flex. More variance, even in Wet Noodles.

Mauricio, who deals and fiddles hard to get a perfect fit of nib and feed for max performance, don't care for my system in superflex.....but he sees lots more pens than me. But as a start off guide I think my system works enough in superflex to be helpful to the noobie.

 

The first stage of superflex, Easy Full Flex, one half of a maxi, should you have one, or 1/8th of the pressure needed mash a regular flex to what ever tine max the nib has.

Wet Noodle half of Easy Full Flex or 1/16th of a regular flex.

Weak Kneed Wet Noodle a term invented by John Sowoboda(sp) the English nib grinder. Is less. How much less I don't know, I don't have any, nor want any. Or I'd have to learn how to write.

I did test a MB Safety Pen that was so. And that was coming up on dip pen flexibility.

 

Not every Waterman 52 is a superflex nib.

What I found funny, was some fine poster posted an article of what Waterman was after in the '30's, which was lots of tine bend and only 3 X tine spread...................so it might well be that we are all overstressing our 52's....and that a Pink Nib....is only supposed to go to 3 X.

 

There are only middle of dip pen flexibility that makes a wet noodle look uncooked....and something like a Hunt 99-100-101 flex in the cup when an earthquake happens in California is much more flexible than a Weak Kneed Wet Noodle. .

Edited April 18, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[TheDutchGuy]

Soft = movement (flexing) in body of the nib, does not relate to spread of tines. This can be accomplished by physical modifications (cuttings, pierces), or material (thin or alloy)

 

hard = nail = doesn't move, flex, bend or open at all without damaging levels of pressure. Think modern pens like TWSBI.

 

Flex (as it's talked about today) = movement of tines apart. Can vary widely by how easily the tines spread (how much pressure you have to exert to spread the tines, which is sometimes confusingly talked about as how "soft" a flex nib is), how far they move apart, how quickly they move back to neutral position, etc...

+1

[minddance]

Hi DutchGuy:

 

My experience with some soft nibs is quite different from yours, probably because from your list, which are all western pens, my guess is that your nibs are more rounded inside out, up down left right.

 

My post is not to doubt or disagree with your pleasant experience with Western soft nibs but to share what I experienced with some Japanese soft nibs, mainly Pilot soft nibs in the Custom 74 and 74x series.

 

Due to the nib grind and nib finishing, I find it quite difficult to get the two ever-moving tines (due to softness) to conjugate to always provide a very sweet spot, especially in a Pilot 74 soft fine (sf) and 743 falcon (fa) nib. The writing experience, if not careful, can turn out rather scratchy and certainly rough.

 

I understand softness does not always translate to flex, it can mean bounce and probably just a bit of spring or a little 'give' when writing.

 

Nib tines can move up away from the feed (very slightly, of course, when there's no flex), and in the case of flex, apart from each other. Even when there is not flex, many soft nibs also have tines that move slightly apart from each other at some point or other when writing. So my point is the tines will certainly move, whether there's flex or not.

 

This also means the tines, if they are not moving at same distance and rate, in other words, if they do not move absolutely together, due to rotation of pens or loops and curves in the natural motion of writing, which inevitably happens, the sweet spot 'changes'. And these things become ever-changing. it would be forever weaving in and out of the sweet spot, or sometimes completely miss it, if there's only one very specific and small sweet spot.

 

But if the inner tines and areas all around the sweet spot are well-rounded enough, a smoother writing experience could be expected - within certain limits, of course.

 

I cannot generalise if a soft nib absolutely provides a better writing experience in my experience with Japanese soft nibs. I would say it is all nib-grind and flow-dependent.

 

but there are exceptions to the 74 series - the sfm nib, which absolutely agrees with my hand - still, there are limits.

 

my experience is that rigid and hard nibs provide a stable and fixed sweet spot; a soft nib has an ever-changing spot in contact with paper, and it may not always be as sweet as I desire. A soft nib might be smooth if the nib grind allows for an ever-changing sweet spot. If a soft nib is tuned for only 1 sweet spot, then the writing experience could be unpleasantly scratchy.

 

(for some people, even putting the nib down to paper already causes the tines' distance from feed and/or distance from another tine to be already unequal to start with, due to the position of the pen. It can be rather tedious for the hand to balance both the tines, the pen and constantly be aware of these things.)

Edited April 19, 2019 by minddance

[Bo Bo Olson]

Wow... ................Definitely learned much about Japanese nibs Minddance.

I own none, and don't expect to ever own any................don't buy much in new pens as is, and used Japanese pens are as scarce as hen's teeth on German EBay.

 

A regular flex Pelikan from '82-97 has a different nib tip shape, more oblong, tear drop...like a Pelikan 200....than the round double ball...top, bottom and thicker tip of a modern 400/600/800 & 1000 Pelikan.

 

Well unless the nib is oblique, I don't cant or rotate the nib........but could see how one could get away with canting/rotating one's nib more easily with the modern round, fat and blobby Pelikans.

 

Of the last pens I did buy one was a used 1005, & W.Germany 600 which has the tear drop form of a nib. The few new pens I've bought have been tear dropped 200's., a EF & M and a 215 M.

[TheDutchGuy]

Thank you for your thoughtful contributions, everyone!

 

@Minddance: thank you for pointing out that 'soft' does not necessarily imply 'forgiving'. As you say, the constant movement of the tines can lead to avariety of writing experiences, depending on the idiosyncracies of the writer and on how well the nib was cut, tuned and polished. And while I wouldn't want to generalize, you might have a point when you imply that perhaps Western pens are more oriented towards smoothness (and therefore more prone to have baby's bottom) than Oriental pens.

 

@Honeybadgers: I agree. Personally I also prefer soft nibs, but I do find that they are more prone to skip. No doubt this is mostly due to my poor writing discipline, though. For no-fuss, fast and reliable writing I'll grab a rigid-nibbed pen like a Kaweco or a Sailor.

 

@AAAndrew: very informative posts! I learned something!

 

@Bo Bo: as always, thanks for sharing your experiences with us in such detail.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Once someone who knew more about it than me, said the Japanese nibs were designed for a tiny printed script.

Western for the flowing cursive.

 

That might have to do with era and place of manufacture in Western nibs more.

German '50-60's nibs; stub semi-flex are different than US/(English), "American Bump Under" nibs.....in outside the Nail Lamy and it's regular flex Artus subbrand, which did have the American Bump Under tipping, or the regular flex 120 or Geha School pen................German pens were flat....stubs and semi-flex.

Parker was mostly a nail, with an occasional semi-nail like the P-75.

 

Modern Pelikan, Lamy & M are wider than French Parker/Waterman....Pelikan has had the 'American Bump Under....from the '80's ....I don't have the '66-82 pens so can't comment on them but expect them to have the bump under tipping.

Pelikan was once much narrower than it is now....narrower than Parker or Sheaffer.

 

I think if one prints, a Japanese pen might well be the one needed more than a western cursive pen.

 

What I'd be interested in.....but no where enough that I'd actually buy a Japanese pen. .........it's against my religion to buy new pens as is........but I'd be interested in someone's view who has a couple Japanese pens and either some regular flex Pelikan 400 '82-97 or late '80's to now 200's vs a 'soft' Japanese nib. Would one say they are the same flex?

Edited April 20, 2019 by Bo Bo Olson

[OMASsimo]

In my 20-odd collection I've got a number of high-quality pens with rigid nibs ("nails") as well as some with soft, bouncy nibs. I'm not talking about true flex nibs, just feathery nibs that give a little when writing. Apart from the obvious difference in rigidity I've noticed some more distinctions (see below) between the two kinds. There's more to it than just a cushiony feeling with soft nibs that's not there with rigid nibs. The soft nibs have tines that move much more: relative to the feed as well as relative to each other. These movements, when coupled to my rather poor writing technique, lead to quite noticeable differences compared to rigid pens. These differences have nothing to do with nib material, I've noticed it both in steel and gold nibs.

 

My personal preference is definitely towards soft, bouncy nibs. I adore that cushiony feeling. But due to these differences, I tend to use the soft pens more in controlled conditions (correspondence, long sessions, a proper table, etc) and the rigid pens more in less controlled conditions (travel, quick notes, etc).

 

Not sure if I'm the only one, but if not, then this might be of use to those who are wondering if they should buy a soft or a hard nib.

 

Here's what I found:

 

-the soft nibs tend to make the inks shade more

 

-rotating a soft nib when writing (a bad habit of mine) will not feel much different: the nib is forgiving. But the pen's performance goes down a bit (i.e. giving me an occasional skip). As an exception, my Visconti is very forgiving to rotation.

 

-with a soft nib, on downstrokes, the first part is dry-ish, so most of the ink shows up in the bottom half of the stroke. I assume this is because the soft nib moves away from the feed somewhat on a downstroke and then the feed 'catches up' when I get to the bottom half of the stroke. Note that I tend to write very fast downstrokes, another bad habit. PS I'm not talking about a hard-start here.

 

-for some reason that I haven't figured out yet, on my soft-nibbed pens the ink tends to dry on the nib more when the pen is not in use, i.e. after a day or two the first few letters might be a bit of a struggle.

 

In contrast, my rigid pens will tell me if I rotate the nib by becoming toothy, so they're less forgiving, but their performance won't go down. They tend to have more equal flow on downstrokes, the ink flow always keeps up, which I assume is due to the tines moving much less. And they're always ready to write, regardless of how long it's been.

 

For the sake of reference, some of my rigid pens are:

-3 modern 14k Sailors (HMF, HM, HM)

-a modern 18k Cross Peerless 125 (with stock M Sailor nib)

-a vintage 14C Montblanc 146 EF

-a vintage 14k Sheaffer PFM-III M

-a vintage 14k Parker 51 M

-3 modern steel-nibbed Kawecos (Classic Sport F, Dia2 M, Sport 1.1)

 

...and some of my soft pens are:

-a steel-nibbed Leonardo Momento Zero F

-a steel-nibbed Leonardo Furore F

-a vintage 14k Montblanc 342 F

-a modern 23k palladium dreamtouch Visconti Homo Sapiens Midi Lava Steel F.

 

A lot of good information already was provided by others about soft/flexy vs. stiff nibs. What I noticed in your list is that the only vintage "soft" pen is a second tier Montblanc. Probably, once you tried two dozen top tier German vintage pens from the 50s/60s you might come to a slightly different conclusion. Many of them are flow monsters requiring good paper or the flood of ink will bleed through. Nearly none of my vintage "soft"/"flexy" pens shows flow issues at all, even after sitting unused for several weeks. A few of them might show what you described on the very first down stroke but not on any following one in a writing session. The up and down movement of the nib acts like an ink pump and the very slight tine spread does the same, pumping ink towards the tipping.

 

An excellent stiff nib will provide a very even ink flow just through the capillary effect. It's designed to give no line variation due to pressure and thus is pretty much a carefree writer.

 

Soft nibs might require a more subtle treatment and certainly a lighter hand for best performance. Also, the tipping of vintage nibs has a different shape, at least for all European pens. There have been special nibs for people rotating the pen during writing. German pen makers used to mark those nibs as Kx, "x" being the nib width and "K" standing for "Kugel" (= sphere). The tipping is closer to modern blob tipping. Of course, oblique nibs have less of a sweet spot due to their design. Otherwise they wouldn't give the wanted result of line variation.

[Bo Bo Olson]

The K nibs of the '50-60's and before are stubs on the bottom with a thicker tip and a ball on the top of the nib.

I'd inked a KM and a few M semi-flexes to see if someone was right of the KM writing thicker even when held low......they were right, it was fatter than regular M nib.

 

Modern Pelikans outside the 200/100 are double kugels so ball point users can use a fountain pen with out wasting three minutes learning how......also a reason they are semi-nails....stiffer....800 is a nail, so they are not so easy to bend in modern hands. Less repair costs...............there are a hundred horror stores of what happens to a fountain pen....even a nail, when a Ball Point Barbarian gets his hands on one for 10 seconds.

 

Semi-vintage '97-82 was a nice springy regular flex like the modern 200 with a tear drop tipping instead of the fat double blob.

Semi-flex pre '70's was mostly flat and stubbish.................not all are, I do have some '60's German no name semi-flex with the 'American Bump Under' tipping.