Hard Starts With Multiple Inks - Need Help Please!

[CoolBreeze]

I just bought a few ink samples the other day and had issues with a number of them. I kept getting hard starts if I paused writing for 5 seconds or more. I know that nibs can dry if left uncapped but 5 seconds seems unreasonable to me. I never had issues with the following inks before:

Pilot Blue

Private Reserve Tanzanite

DeAtramentis Document Inks (multiple colors)

Pilot Iroshizuku Ama-Iro

Monteverde Document Blue

Rohrer & Kingner Dokumentus Hellblau

Noodler's Upper Ganges Blue

Noodler's Legal Blue

Noodler's Bad Blue Herron

The only issue I had was with Noodler's Liberty's Elysium which I could barely get to flow out of my Pilot Prera. I moved it to Faber Castell Loom and it was only slightly better. Since, at the time, this was the only ink that gave me issues, I assumed it was the ink.

I just got the following samples

Worked Fine:

Monteverde Horizon Blue

Pilot Iroshizuku Asa-gao

Monteverde Ocean Noir

Herbin Eclat de Saphir

Diamine Sapphire Blue

Hard Starts:

Diamine Blue Velvet
Pilot Iroshizuku Kon-peki
Diamine Sargasso Sea

Monteverde Sapphire

I tried the above inks in 2 Faber Castell Looms with nibs untouched by me. They came from the factory nice for me and I haven't messed with them. The biggest shocker was Kon Peki which everyone seems to love. When it didn't start, I was able to to press harder to get the pen to start writing and the first letter was all sheen which made me think there was some evaporation. I did some research and I was unable to find any ink issues with the inks I was having issues with.

This makes me think it might be my pens? What do you all think and do you have recommendations to get these things flowing? Baby's bottom? Spread the tines more to get more flow. Move the tines together to get the ink closer to the nib surface? Check ink channels in the feeds? I honestly can't figure this out.

Edited February 18, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[ENewton]

In your place, I would not hasten to adjust the nibs on your pens.

 

One question that comes immediately to mind is whether you flushed your new pens before filling them for the first time. I am reading "untouched by me" as a clue that you filled each pen with ink before flushing it out. I admit that I have often filled a new pen without flushing it first, but best practice seems to be to flush before using.

 

A second question is whether you are switching from one of these inks to another in the same pen without cleaning the pen thoroughly between inks. It can happen, sometimes, that ingredients in inks collide in undesirable ways.

 

Finally, as to the inks themselves, a search of this forum will reveal that not everyone lauds Sargasso Sea for its behavior. I am in the unusual position of having tried only one Diamine ink, and it did annoy me by drying out in the nib as I was writing, but given the large number of inks produced by that manufacturer, it would certainly make sense to search on this forum for information on, say, Diamine Blue Velvet, to discover whether other users have experienced issues with flow.

 

As for your disappointment with Konpeki, I had a sample once and it did not dry out in my pens, but I also never saw any sheen. What I wonder is whether the problems you are experiencing are related, not to the inks themselves or to your pens, but to switching back and forth between them.

 

Now we wait for more expert replies than mine.

[CoolBreeze]

I appreciate your response. To answer your question: The pens were all cleaned thoroughly (several passes with bulb syringe and a drop or 2 of dawn then several flushing with clean water to rinse out any soap residue). With regards to the nib, I mentioned "untouched by me" because Faber Castell nibs have a pretty good reputation of being smooth and good performers out of the box (especially medium size - both of which the two pens are).

 

I honestly don't want to touch them if I don't have to......BUT Diamine inks and Kon Peki seem to have reputations of being "wet" inks so I was thinking maybe it is my pens. After all inks like Pilot Blue or DeAtramentis have more than generous flow so any issues the nibs have, the inks could have covered them up???

[jar]

How long have you been using fountain pens?

[OCArt]

That's quite an extensive list of inks that worked well. Given that I certainly would **not** make any mechanical adjustments to the pens at this point. Did you start having problems after using one of the document or permanent inks? I just wonder if those types of inks aren't playing well with a following load of normal dye inks.

My first line of attach would be *extensive* cleaning and flushing with a short glass of water, a drop of Dawn dish soap and a drop of ammonia. If you have a ultrasonic machine I'd do a treatment there too.

[much snipped......]
What do you all think and do you have recommendations to get these things flowing? Baby's bottom? Spread the tines more to get more flow. Move the tines together to get the ink closer to the nib surface? Check ink channels in the feeds? I honestly can't figure this out.

Edited to say that I posted just after Enewton's good advice. great minds think alike

Edited February 18, 2019 by OCArt

[CoolBreeze]

Here are a couple pics

[CoolBreeze]

Couple more. Best I could do.

[senzen]

It's the pens, not the inks. Every single time I've had this problem in my endless ink rotations, it's a simple matte of cleaning the pens thoroughly. You can do this easily with a bulb syringe, even better by leaving the section in lukewarm water with a single drop of dish soap overnight.

 

In extreme cases I disassemble the pens and clean the feeds with a tooth brush: when the pen hasn't been cleaned in years or with gunky inks such as Rouge Hématite.

[CoolBreeze]

How long have you been using fountain pens?

About 6 months now.

[CoolBreeze]

 

That's quite an extensive list of inks that worked well. Given that I certainly would **not** make any mechanical adjustments to the pens at this point. Did you start having problems after using one of the document or permanent inks? I just wonder if those types of inks aren't playing well with a following load of normal dye inks.

My first line of attach would be *extensive* cleaning and flushing with a short glass of water, a drop of Dawn dish soap and a drop of ammonia. If you have a ultrasonic machine I'd do a treatment there too.

I primarily use DeAtramentis document inks for the last couple months- they always seemed to perform really well for me. I was trying to branch out for something that had a little more "pop" on the page. I did clean the pens but maybe I need to take them apart, soak them overnight, use amonia etc. on them. Maybe the bulp syringe and soap is not enough after a couple months of usage.

[CoolBreeze]

It's the pens, not the inks. Every single time I've had this problem in my endless ink rotations, it's a simple matte of cleaning the pens thoroughly. You can do this easily with a bulb syringe, even better by leaving the section in lukewarm water with a single drop of dish soap overnight.

 

In extreme cases I disassemble the pens and clean the feeds with a tooth brush: when the pen hasn't been cleaned in years or with gunky inks such as Rouge Hématite.

I may have to do that with the feed to try to get things flowing better.

[CoolBreeze]

When I look at the pictures or at the nib in the loop directly, it just seems like the ink retracts below the tines of the nib. I am not sure if that is normal and either 1) wetter inks like DeA start easier in this position because they are wetter, 2) maybe the feed is gunked up and there is not a enough flow to keep the ink wetter and/or closer to the tines edge, 3) the v-shape of the nib is causing the issue, or 4) none of the above!

[ENewton]

When I finish a fill of ink and anticipate switching to a different ink next, I first flush with distilled water until the water runs clear, then leave the section in a small dish of distilled water overnight, and then flush again in the morning.

[CoolBreeze]

When I finish a fill of ink and anticipate switching to a different ink next, I first flush with distilled water until the water runs clear, then leave the section in a small dish of distilled water overnight, and then flush again in the morning.

Interesting - do you usually get any ink to come out the next day? I bulb syringe with water and soap until it runs clear. Then bulb syringe with clean water 2-3 times, and then set the nib straight down on some paper towels in a shot glass and let capillary action drain whatever is left in there out to the paper towel.

Edited February 18, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[ENewton]

Interesting - do you usually get any ink to come out the next day? I bulb syringe with water and soap until it runs clear. Then bulb syringe with clean water 2-3 times, and then set the nib straight down on some paper towels in a shot glass and let capillary action drain whatever is left in there out to the paper towel.

 

Sometimes there is some residue the next morning. It depends on the ink.

[TheDutchGuy]

The nib photos suggest a case of 'inverse canyon', which may have similar symptoms as baby's bottom, i.e. skips and/or hard starts. If the pen is under warranty, best to return it. Otherwise a nibmeister can fix this in no time at all. Don't try to fix it yourself unless you're willing to risk ruining the nib.

[BaronWulfraed]

The photos are missing the critical angle; you've shown straight down onto the bottom side, and straight on from the front... but not at a tangent across the writing spot angle (approximately, have the slope of the feed -- from comb to nib tip -- pointing at the camera)

 

However, I have to agree with TDG -- that nib needs adjustment to parallelize the slit. (Or you start using a very soft/fibrous paper -- so fibers reach up into the slit to start the ink contact)

[CoolBreeze]

I did the best that I could with the pictures. I thought the first set of pictures was about 45 degrees in between.

 

I let the nib units sit in soapy water overnight and then flushed them in the morning and no additional ink that I could see flowed out. I decided to take the nib units apart to see what they looked like inside. Both feeds had what looked like "fuzz" 3/4 of the way back on top of the ink channel. I am not sure how to describe it but the best I could say it looked like was fuzz. I also don't know if it was "inside" the microscopic slit that is the feed channel but I assume it was. I took a brass shim and it seems likes it cleared out the feed channel. I then washed everything again with soapy water, and rinsed it with clean water. I haven't tested it again yet.

 

I am not sure how this "fuzz" could get all the way back in the feed (especially on both of them) when I have never taken either of them apart seems weird to me but I guess anything is possible. Maybe that is what happens to inks when they dry out? I guess it also shows that flushing a pen with soap and water doesn't always get everything out. Will it help? It can't hurt and I will keep you posted.

Edited February 18, 2019 by CoolBreeze

[Bo Bo Olson]

The nib photos suggest a case of 'inverse canyon', which may have similar symptoms as baby's bottom, i.e. skips and/or hard starts. If the pen is under warranty, best to return it. Otherwise a nibmeister can fix this in no time at all. Don't try to fix it yourself unless you're willing to risk ruining the nib.

My first thought was sever baby bottom but 'inverse canyon' seems the better description. In there is a slight difference between the two.

Go to Richard Binder's site he covers nib problems and nib info best.

 

Return to the company and ask for new nibs.

 

Sometimes the wrong paper will cover up problems. A better or slicker paper will show the problems much clearer.

[minddance]

Did you adjust flow on your pen? The tines look like shoulders of tines have been pulled away using thumbs.