I Think I've Figured Out Why I Hate Converters

[JakobS]

The best converter I have ever used is the one made by Rotring, fills fully the first time, lets ink flow out of the pen without ever thinking about it...

 

But I agree that its my least preferred filling system.

Edited December 24, 2018 by JakobS

[inkstainedruth]

I know with piston fillers you're supposed to bleed out a few drops when you fill them... occasionally I do... usually I do not... but either way, I've never had a ink starvation problem with a piston filler.

 

I have on occasion with lower-end piston pens: some of my Noodler's pens and the Dollar 717i (but the 717i was free, and is something like a five buck pen to start with, so I'll cut it some slack). I do on very rare occasions have issues with the TWSBI 580-AL (depending on the ink), but that pen doesn't have the piston reach the end of the feed -- which I think is a design flaw on TWSBI's part: you can get an air bubble when the piston is fully extended and that air bubble can block the ink from reaching the feed.

I've NEVER had an ink starvation problem, as far as I can recall, with any of my Pelikans.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[pen2paper]

One is a visual gift to the eye, just like their pens - Nakaya.

[bobje]

Dill makes a very good point — they’re consumables and they wear out. Pen2paper’s reminder about Nakaya converters reminds me to think about painting my own designs on converters. Nail polish, maybe?

[eharriett]

This is an interesting discussion. I happen to be opposite the OP post. I prefer C/C over piston filling, but for a specific reason: I enjoy changing and refilling my pens often. I specifically got a VERY expensive custom made pen in C/C format and with the warning I'd get maybe only a couple pages out of it, the way I had them put the nib in because I only wanted a few pages written at a time and then I either refill or put the pen away.

 

I've only had two converters ever break on me. One was a Jinhao (obvious reasons) and the other was a Waterman converter wear out after a decade of use. Never had any other converter failures, and I do very much enjoy flushing a pen with blue black and then filling it with a different blue black.

[DrDebG]

I think we can all agree that converters can be a royal pain. I have had many of the same mixed blessings with converters. I have just decided not to let them get to me anymore. When a converter doesn't work well, it is replaced with another that does, or I use cartridges and refill them.

 

With converters that just don't work, I either replace them or just use cartridges in that pen. I have not had good luck with Pilot converters, so I use cartridges in my Pilot VPs and Metros.

 

Yet, I have many "lesser quality" converters that work better than more premium converters. For example I have a MontBlanc converter that is a piece of junk. I use cartridges in my MontBlanc now and refill them as needed.

 

I have also found that converters do wear out over time. For a pen that I always have inked, the converter generally only lasts a few years if that.

[pajaro]

After fixing the drying out problem with a few Sonnets, I have no further flow issues. I have taken the converters apart and put a tiny bead of silicone lube in them and worked the converters. The pistons move more smoothly. None of the priming and screwing around stuff.

[Driften]

I have had mixed feeling about C/C pens and for awhile I had been selling those off and sticking to piston fill pens, but the last few pens I bought were C/C pens. For quality of the experience the higher end Visconti converters with the metal knob feel nicer, but had flow issues until cleaned with dish soap. The Aurora Talentum I just got has a generic looking converter but gave a full fill on the first try with both inks I tested and has worked perfectly out of the box without cleaning.

 

I do agree it would be nice if high priced pens came with converters that were higher then standard quality but many people wouldn't want to pay the extra cost added to an already expensive pen. It's not like those companies will cut their profit margin unless forced to.

[Mech-for-i]

actually I've found Cross screw in style converter to be one of the better one and I do agree the Pilot Con-70 is a piece of engineering satisfying in operation ( but then when its all tune up and work, which it seem to had a reputation for not doing so with regular occasions ).

Edited December 24, 2018 by Mech-for-i

[ParkerDuofold]

Dill makes a very good point theyre consumables and they wear out.

 

Hi Bob,

 

This is true,... but my interpretation of HB's post has more to do with initial, overall quality rather than long-term reliability... at least that's how I took it, because I know the pen usually out lives the converter... hopefully.

 

 

...painting my own designs on converters. Nail polish, maybe?

 

Nail polish... ...nail polish is usually an enamel... standard enamels can craze or melt some plastics... not counting the plastic used for imitation nails,... but a better choice may be acrylics... or enamels specifically geared for plastic... like Testor's model paints. Just a thought.

 

Be well.

 

 

- Anthony

 

EDITED to correct typos.

Edited December 24, 2018 by ParkerDuofold

[ParkerDuofold]

I have on occasion with lower-end piston pens: some of my Noodler's pens and the Dollar 717i (but the 717i was free, and is something like a five buck pen to start with, so I'll cut it some slack). I do on very rare occasions have issues with the TWSBI 580-AL (depending on the ink), but that pen doesn't have the piston reach the end of the feed -- which I think is a design flaw on TWSBI's part: you can get an air bubble when the piston is fully extended and that air bubble can block the ink from reaching the feed.

I've NEVER had an ink starvation problem, as far as I can recall, with any of my Pelikans.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

Hi Ruth,

 

Fortunately, I don't have any of the piston fillers you mention... except I do have a Konrad in the Jersey Devil scheme,... and a TWSBI Eco,... but I haven't had any troubles with them yet. I've heard complaints about the TWSBI 700 Vac having problems, but I didn't know the 580 had those issues, too. I've been meaning to get a 580...

 

Be well... Merry Christmas...

 

 

- Anthony

[A Smug Dill]

This is true,... but my interpretation of HB's post has more to do with initial, overall quality rather than long-term reliability... at least that's how I took it, because I know the pen usually out lives the converter... hopefully.

As a consumer in this capitalist world (ahead of all considerations of technological advancement and engineering capability), you don't reasonably expect a sub-$10 consumable component to be designed and constructed to feel either iron-clad or luxurious, do you? Honeybadgers' gripe is that converters don't feel 'premium' to him, but are only 'a cut price piece of junk'.

 

By no means do I want to invalidate his sentiment; like I said, there's no arguing with that. However, US$5 is not a 'premium' price in my book, especially in the context of being a component that is critical to the function in a US$100 or US$1000 instrument.

 

Now, he has clarified that he would be prepared to pay for converters fashioned from lead crystal adorned with hand-cut patterns and precious metal trim for prices some ten-fold what 'international standard' converters typical sell for in the market. Fair enough; I wouldn't buy one myself unless I wanted to put it in an illuminated glass case as a display piece. I wonder how big a market there is out there. Would buyers of a US$700 Nakaya be keen to spend another US$70 on top of that for a converter that they wouldn't usually see or touch when using the pen as a writing instrument?

 

'Premium' products are often fragile, if beautiful and masterfully constructed. My best ultra-thin hand-cut French crystal wine glasses are far more fragile than much cheaper everyday glasses from which I usually drink. Take into account the dimensions of a converter, and how thin the walls of the tube must be so as not to sacrifice ink capacity, and you end up with a converter that is ten-fold the price and probably ten times easier to break through use.

[tamiya]

IMHO the biggest issue with converters is, they're there to convert a cartridge design - which usually means an inkflow bottleneck where the cartridge is attached/pierced. This causes a lot of unknowns from the ink's particular properties (viscosity, surface tension etc) vs shape & material/s causing the ink to hang around or flow out freely.

 

Piston & vac fill avoid this issue; might have other issues of their own making,

 

Best solution to avoid both? What about a "eyedropper filled" design but instead of simply filling the barrel with liquid, there's an inner cartridge that's neatly the full volume of the barrel. Mouth of that cartridge is near full width at the section, not just a tiny pinhole = less flow impedance.

 

There's a thermal break between barrel and cartridge, less chance of burps from hand heat. Plus inadvertent unscrewing of barrel won't cause a flood or leak. There's no reliance on the barrel threads to be watertight (which they're NOT designed to do); whereas cartridge mouth is designed to seal against section without needing extra gaskets or grease.

 

And if you can't be bothered filling with eyedropper... there'll be prefilled cartridges sold! or better still, sell refill inks in squeezy bottles with a pointy spout, just inject straight into the cartridge - simples.

 

 

Think you've seen it before somewhere? yeah my old Marsmatic technical pens

[bass1193]

Think you've seen it before somewhere? yeah my old Marsmatic technical pens

And the gigantic cartridges that Nathan had made to fit the Konrad and Ahab

[ParkerDuofold]

As a consumer in this capitalist world (ahead of all considerations of technological advancement and engineering capability), you don't reasonably expect a sub-$10 consumable component to be designed and constructed to feel either iron-clad or luxurious, do you? Honeybadgers' gripe is that converters don't feel 'premium' to him, but are only 'a cut price piece of junk'.

 

By no means do I want to invalidate his sentiment; like I said, there's no arguing with that. However, US$5 is not a 'premium' price in my book, especially in the context of being a component that is critical to the function in a US$100 or US$1000 instrument.

 

Now, he has clarified that he would be prepared to pay for converters fashioned from lead crystal adorned with hand-cut patterns and precious metal trim for prices some ten-fold what 'international standard' converters typical sell for in the market. Fair enough; I wouldn't buy one myself unless I wanted to put it in an illuminated glass case as a display piece. I wonder how big a market there is out there. Would buyers of a US$700 Nakaya be keen to spend another US$70 on top of that for a converter that they wouldn't usually see or touch when using the pen as a writing instrument?

 

'Premium' products are often fragile, if beautiful and masterfully constructed. My best ultra-thin hand-cut French crystal wine glasses are far more fragile than much cheaper everyday glasses from which I usually drink. Take into account the dimensions of a converter, and how thin the walls of the tube must be so as not to sacrifice ink capacity, and you end up with a converter that is ten-fold the price and probably ten times easier to break through use.

Try to relax and enjoy life, Dill... it's far too short for such a long response to what I said.

 

Merry Christmas.

 

 

- Anthony

[sirgilbert357]

Hi all,

 

Well, piston style converters come in varying levels of quality... like everything else... some good... some bad...

 

...that said, my problem with converters is I think they are the root cause of the ink starvation issues I have with some of my C/C pens... a problem I never seem to experience with true piston fillers.

 

Be well all.

 

 

- Anthony

 

I have come to the same conclusion, Anthony. I don't experience any ink starvation issues on any of my Pelikans, my Lamy 2000, or my Wing Sung 3008's or the 601. My Pilots seem to have perfect flow, but I just refill a cartridge in my Decimo and my new Pilot 912 has the Con-70, so it's a on a different level than a normal screw type converter.

 

Every other pen I've had that was C/C would have flow issues and ink starvation at one point or another...either at the half page mark or later at about the full page mark -- seems to depend on the size of the collector. The ink being used varied and didn't seem to be as big of a factor as one would expect...I've come to the conclusion that I should just buy piston fillers only from now on, lol.

[sirgilbert357]

I will add that every pen I've ever owned with a Jowo nib also had ink starvation issues too, so it isn't always JUST the converter (some were piston fill TWSBIs). There are many people who don't seem to have the issues I've had, but I've had a sample of half a dozen between two pen makers and they all had the same issue.

[A Smug Dill]

The only time I've encountered ink starvation issues with my Sailor Professional Gear (Imperial Black edition) with Fine nib – which of course using the seemingly much hated and often maligned standard Sailor converter, of which I own and used many without problems – was when I put Sailor seiboku pigment ink in it. Yes, I hated that writing experience. However, no other ink in the same pen and same converter (or product line – I tried several converters) caused the same issue, so there is no reason to direct my 'hate' to either the Sailor converter, or converters as a filling mechanism in general.

 

Maybe one day I'll unseal my new Sailor Pro Gear Realo with Fine nib, and fill it with seiboku ink, just to see whether it has the same issue. I just can't seem to muster enough enthusiasm for piston-fill to put that pen into rotation, and I don't feel like risking clogging or leaving particles from a Diamine or J.Herbin shimmer ink in the internals of a $300 pen I cannot easily disassemble and clean.

[francoiacc]

I think 90% of the international converter are made by Schmidt and just rebranded. They are simple devices that don't need any unnecessary complication, plastic and rubber make good job and actually most piston filler pens use same material. There are pros and cons in both filling mechanism, mainly converters are easy to clean but don't hold many ink, piston hold more ink but requires more effort for cleaning. The worst thing is when you buy an expansive pen sold as a piston filler but in reality it has a built-in converter.

[FOUR X FOUR]

The converters in the Visconti Carbon graphite and the Porsche Solid 3135 are both very solid, strong converters