A New Twist On A Pen Cleaning Question: Vintage Sac Fillers!

[eharriett]

Theres lots of posts here about cleaning out our pens. One of my first posts was about this very topic. But now, I have a new pen cleaning question. And while it is touched upon in other posts, I have searched and not found a thread dedicated to this specific pen type. So here goes:

 

When it comes to vintage pens, my favorite type, from across the brands, are sac filling pens. We are talking pens with the lever on the side and the latex sacs in them. The Esterbrook, the Watermans (it is actually a Taperite that prompted this question), my beautiful Majestics, etc.

 

I know these pens were originally designed to hold one ink and very rarely, if ever get cleaned out and the ink changed. This I accept. But that was then and this is now. Today, I have a bunch of vintage pens I love to use. And when I want to use something else, I clean them out, put them away, and go on. But it is the cleaning out that I always wonder about.

 

It takes me about 3 days to clean out a sac filling pen, and even then Im not sure Ive cleaned it out and it has me worried Ill contaminate a bottle of ink the next time, months later, I want to put a new ink in it.

 

Without disassembling them, I cant exactly run water through it until it is clear, so I fill/dump, fill/dump, fill/dump, until the dump is mostly or completely clear. Then I fill again with water with a little soap, and let it sit for a bit, then dump. That water is almost completely color. Then I repeat, gradually increasing time for about 2 days. Each time, the water I dump has color, although it gets lighter. But at a certain point Im not sure if Im seeing ink or latex sac residue. Finally, by day three, I decide it is enough and I let it completely dry out, then put it away until its next adventure. But I am always concerned the moment I dunk and fill, there will be an exchange and some of the residue of whatever I had in it before will contaminate the new ink.

 

So I ask: what is your system for cleaning out a sac pen? Not a P51, not a Snorkel, not a Cartridge/converter pen. JUST a standard Bb sac filling pen. And how clean does it get for you before you say it is C-L-E-A-N?

[praxim]

With my lever fillers I have a concern for the longevity of the lever and pivot mechanism. They are not new in my hands. I will flush them 3-5 times, fewer is better, until the cup of water in which it is immersed when emptying is only lightly tinted. Then I rest it nib down on cloth or paper towel for 24 hours; the usual routine discussed here often enough.

 

By this time any residual effect from the old ink should be negligible in relation to the volume of new ink. I never put red inks in my sac pens.

Edited October 30, 2018 by praxim

[Roger W.]

Keeping in mind your method everything else is going to look pretty lacking. OK, I use Skrip blue, blue-black or black so mainly falling into your category of the pen only (mostly) ever got filled with one color. So I would fill it a few times and dump it a few times mostly to clean the fins and the channels in the feed. I would not be a purist in adding a special color ink and want to know it was 100% but, I' might fill it with water and let it sit a day and flush it a couple more times and call it a day. Much more than that and your a hastening the deterioration of the spring and the life of the sac. The larger issue of the two is hastening the decline of the spring. If I were motivated by using the different varieties of inks I wouldn't use a lever filling pen. An alternative would be to buy new sacs and take the old one off cleaning the nib unit thoroughly by flushing with a bulb (I wouldn't bother knocking out the nib and physically cleaning the channels - let's not go too nuts here - too much risk of breakage). That would be pretty damn clean and not really that expensive though you risk breaking the barrel threads taking the section out and in. Lever fillers are just not optimal for color changing where you want to be sure the color is pure. If I was wanting to optimize ink purity I'd use a Sheaffer school pen and a cartridge where they could be easily cleaned. Or get packs of those dollar pens from Pakistan and fill them and toss them as desired. We use these pens for the ink testing station at the Chicago Pen Show and I clean and flush 300 pens annually after the show.

 

As stated above - red is by far the worst ink to clean out. I might flush the pen 30 times and the barrel is stained forever.

 

Roger W.

Edited October 30, 2018 by Roger W.

[amberleadavis]

I fill up a cup with water and a soap high in glycerin. I do the lever thing a few times. Then I fill it up and shake. (Insert song)) Then I fill dump three more times and call it quits. The first rule of course, is NOT to let the ink dry out in the sac, so I will fill with soapy water until I have time to flush it.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Good idea with the soapy water.

I'd just water cleaned.

 

Coming from back in B&W TV days when we didn't even know we were supposed to clean a pen....also just blue, BB and Black (and some girly inks) (bookkeepers and teachers used red)..., ((same with cartridges (where when you scrounged an ink cartridge at school, some times got girly colors **, so there was always a color difference when changing inks)).

 

I would suggest a half a squeeze filling (1/4th a sac full), of the safe color range you are headed for.......then it wouldn't matter if you were going from blue to violet or purple or brown. The second loading will be the color range you have settled with for now....

You may have to plan your ink changes, and have an idea where you are heading....heading dark is no problem. Heading light would take the most planning.

Some people dedicate a pen by color to that color of ink...for ease of sorting. Could also used different colored cups to store that filled ink in. I did the latter once. Had five cups out.

 

Never did after the first pen that matching color thing.......being in Germany where black and gold, is the main color of used pens. Hadn't gotten into green ink for my green stripped Pelikan....and by the time I got into brown....I'd given up the idea of matching ink to pen color.

 

How ever I didn't have any lever pens then....and when I did and could well have matched colors, I didn't. I once had some 15-17 lever pens. Am down to four now. I did have 5 of the 8 smoky gray Esterbrook's, along with some blues, 3 greens, a copper. (not counting the black ones, or the white one......hard to get white ink. ).

Wearever made a good solid second tier pen as good as Esterbrook, just before and after The War.

The ones before the war, like everyone but Parker and Esterbrook have the clip in the middle of the cap. The war and after the war pens the clip started at the top of the top...........the reason we won the war. All those REM*, running around making poor soldiers, and they were dead poor, buy a new pen, that didn't bludge the top of their fatigue pocket. Wearever for enlisted, Esterbrook for SGT's and name pens for Officers. Untidiness loses wars.....and gives us a great sub-collection area.

 

It's just the mostly 3rd tier and some 4th tier pens bring Wearever down. They were once made more pens than all the other companies in the world.

 

 

.......seems now that it's harder to clean out lever pens than I thought. I just squeezed it some 20 times, wrapped it in a paper towel, shook it like any other pen and put it aside for a day nib down, in the towel, in a cup for a day.

 

It might take a bit more planning to do light inks, pink, yellow or orange inks. If one is a tad OCD, might put those inks into a container so the bottle don't get contaminated.

 

** hurray for 'girly colors' out side of pink. Not into red jeans either, nor green. Sometimes it's hard to shake off one's upbringing.

Hummmm.........did sac pens back in the day 'prevent' ink switching? Or folks weren't so total ink color hidebound. Willing to take a bit of in the pen home mix as normal?

When I was 'noobie' after 4+ decades away from fountain pens, thought Turquoise ... a wild ink color.

[Marcwithac]

I fill up a cup with water and a soap high in glycerin. I do the lever thing a few times. Then I fill it up and shake. (Insert song)) Then I fill dump three more times and call it quits. The first rule of course, is NOT to let the ink dry out in the sac, so I will fill with soapy water until I have time to flush it.

 

Shaking is a good idea. I also use lever fillers a lot and recently realized that unless you turn the pen nib up when filled with water (whether soapy or not), you won't get to the ink that is at the far end of the sac. So I also do a little shake each time I fill with fresh water (no song, though).

[eharriett]

OK. These are some good tips. I'll try leaving the pen nib down for a bit and see if this helps get more of the ink cleared out.

[ErrantSmudge]

My cleaning method is exactly what eharriett described in the OP, and truthfully I find sac-fillers inconvenient.

 

I have successfully filled one of my Esterbrooks from a vial, so if you are concerned about back contamination you could transfer ink to a vial and fill from there. It’s a legitimate concern; I have a sample of Noodler’s Apache Sunset that is contaminated by blue ink from the sac of a vintage Eversharp Skyline.

[BaronWulfraed]

 

Shaking is a good idea. I also use lever fillers a lot and recently realized that unless you turn the pen nib up when filled with water (whether soapy or not), you won't get to the ink that is at the far end of the sac. So I also do a little shake each time I fill with fresh water (no song, though).

I suspect you could get a bit more fluid in by

 

nib-up; tap/shake

carefully extend the lever until you stop seeing bubbles at the feed and get a solid ring of fluid

holding the lever that way, invert (nib down) and into the fluid source, then release the lever

 

Granted, having the air bubble may make shaking more effective as the fluid impacts on the ends of the reservoir. completely full will optimize soaking.

 

I tend to use this technique when filling pens (squeeze bladder converters, or piston converter/pen) -- then the careful "squeeze out three drops" to provide air to handle heat expansion of the ink.

[Ron Z]

A centrifuge gets the extra ink and water out of a pen. I use one on a daily basis, and use the hand cranked one in the thread for larger pens like OS Balances and MB 149s. (yeh, I still have it, and it still works)

[Runnin_Ute]

My Esterbrook's I typically get the bulk out with a couple of times using rhe lever, unscrew the nib and flush with water in an ear bulb. Usually good enough.

[pajaro]

If I can, I unscrew a nib unit. Makes it easier.

[eharriett]

A centrifuge gets the extra ink and water out of a pen. I use one on a daily basis, and use the hand cranked one in the thread for larger pens like OS Balances and MB 149s. (yeh, I still have it, and it still works)

 

I forgot about that! I've been thinking of trying to make one of those using your instructions. I'm not too mechanically inclined. So it may not happen

[bsenn]

A centrifuge works great. Next best is, after rinsing, letting the pen wick into a paper towel (I use a drinking glass with a paper towel in the bottom). Repeat rinsing and wicking until the wicked liquid is clear. Could be over a period of a couple days if you're a little OCD.

 

Plus you end up with ink chromatography art.

[eharriett]

If I can, I unscrew a nib unit. Makes it easier.

Only sac filling pens with units I can unscrew are my Esties. And frankly, I like my deluxe model but the rest are not the right size. I accidentally sold the size like and kept the ones I didn’t. So the rest just kind of sit here.

 

Although the nib on my Eversharp recently fell out when I was cleaning it last time. The feed was still on, of course, since the sac was stuck in, but that was a new one on me.

[Erik Dalton]

Shaking is a good idea. I also use lever fillers a lot and recently realized that unless you turn the pen nib up when filled with water (whether soapy or not), you won't get to the ink that is at the far end of the sac. So I also do a little shake each time I fill with fresh water (no song, though).

I also do this with my P-51’s, UK Duofolds and vacs. Seems like that far end of the sac needs a good flush too.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I never found sac pens inconvenient....but I wasn't so OCD on getting every drop out....what about the ink that seeped through the rubber sack into the back of the pen? *

 

* Oh, that's to do piston pens....

 

Cleaning out a c/c pen with a baby syringe is fast and easy, can be done with a screw out nib pen too.

Or....One could just yank the nib and feed and use a baby syringe to clean the sac and let the nib and feed soak in a cup of water......only takes 2-3 minutes max....instead of the hours.

 

........buy an Esterbrook and unscrew the nib & squirt it clean....could have an Eastie in every color of ink one wants....so it won't matter much if a tad of blue got left in a blue pen...green, brown, black or red.

Might well need a second baby syringe spout cut for the feed unit, like I have for my Pelikans.

 

A long time ago when I had my 12 or so sac pens, I'd thought about Ron's gadget, but it was for me too much trouble. No space.

 

IMO realistically, clean enough for government work....and filling from a container vial instead of an ink bottle would do just as well. It would keep the ink in the bottle from being contaminated...........then sac pens wouldn't be such a pain to some.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Honeybadgers]

about ten flushes of the lever with lukewarm water is fine. even a little residual color shouldn't hurt. if it's REALLY not coming clean, fill it, put it nose down in just enough water to touch the section in an ultrasonic cleaner, and run it for a couple minutes. even worse than that, a touch of ammonia to the mix (if you have to do this, you did something wrong with the pen.)

 

I will never put glitter inks in a sac filler since cleaning is all but impossible (and it does really suck to refill with waterman black and have specks of glitter in it.) and I tend to refrain from my insanely saturated stuff like akkerman #5 since they can take 20-30 flushes.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Saturated ink are supposed to be a death knell for rubber sacs.

 

Once they were made so well that 30-40 years was standard before replacing a sac.

Now?? 7-10.....IF one don't use supersaturated inks.

I think it was Ron who said he'd seen some sacs go bad with in weeks of certain supersaturated ink use....or could be he just said saturated ink use.

 

Don't know who made them..

 

...but Ron wasn't the only repairman to say stay away from supersaturated inks with a sac pen.

 

Because of that, I only use traditional inks in my sac pens................could be why mine is easier to clean out than some folks.

Edited October 31, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Ron Z]

Red inks or inks that contain red (which means purple or copper) of any brand has been a problem, and many Noodlers specifically have cause premature failure.

 

The dye saturated inks can be very difficult to remove, especially when they have been allowed to dry. Some take on the consistency of tar. Clear water alone won't get all of the ink out of the pen.