Flex Nib Recommendations

[Inky_Splinters]

I'm trying to decide if a modern flex* nib would meet my needs.

 

I know this is a dead horse and it's been beaten many times already, but I've never seen imagery to really illustrate what people are talking about.

 

So, about me:

I love Japanese EF nibs. The Pilot Penmanship EF with Noodler's X-feather is my current go-to pen.

If I can't hear myself writing, I might as well be using a ballpoint

I like large, heavy pens - The Jinhao x750 is the right weight for me.

 

I'd like something that could go from Japanese EF to almost M with less force required than a Noodler's Creaper (2/3 to half the force maybe?)

Imagery below was done (mostly) with a Zebra G dip nib. When I want that much flex, that's the pen I grab.

 

 

* Yes, I know "modern" and "flex" don't belong in a sentence next to each other

[Bo Bo Olson]

Take your Creeper and do the Ahab Mod to it....it's the Pilot mod, of grinding half moons in the nib.

Look up Ahab Mod in one of the two other Pen history sections.

Can be done with a round Swiss file if you have one or a Dremel.

 

I found the unmodified Ahab to be hard......one had to put semi-flex pressure on the nib to spread the tines to it's max. That is hard, for superflex.

 

 

If one mashes a regular flex it will spread it's tines 3X a light down stroke.....if you can find one...very rare in modern...a Pelikan 200 is such....or look '50-60's vintage.

Half that pressure is what it takes a semi-flex to max at 3 X.

Maxi-semi-flex takes half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to max a regular flex.

 

Superflex spreads it's tines 4, 5-6 or rarely 7X with less pressure than a maxi.

The first of three stages of Superflex, Easy Full Flex takes 1/8th the pressure to max it's tines than a well mashed regular flex.

 

My Ahab Mod, has that Easy Full Flex and is a fun pen....which it was not before the Mod.

So save your money and Mod your Creeper.

Edited August 3, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Inky_Splinters]

My Ahab Mod, has that Easy Full Flex and is a fun pen....which it was not before the Mod.

So save your money and Mod your Creeper.

 

I thought about going the mod route, but after attempting to regrind tips on a few cheap chinese nibs, I've decided I don't have the manual dexterity (or eyes)to grind a fine/EF point. That's the biggest part of my problem. Noodler's pens aren't fine enough for my taste.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Get a round Swiss file, grind the half moons...........have a superflex nib. No dexterity needed. Masking tape the top, draw your half moons & file. Look up 'Ahab Mod'. It has absolutely nothing to do with thinning a nib tip.

My Ahab is EF....it may not be Japaneses EF but it is defiantly western EF. So buy an Ahab nib for it....or did I luck out?

Start a thread and ask what is the 'normal' Creeper nib width. Or look and see if there is a thread....just look up Creeper or 'Creeper width'.

 

Have you printed out Richard Binder's nib tip width chart and tested your Creeper nib? It's great for folks with OCD on nib width...........I used it a few times....but it was at the time not much interest in I'd gone wide when I arrived and not narrow. So I didn't care is an F was narrower than another.

Do remember a wet or dry ink will make a nib wider or narrower....better paper will make a nib narrower.

 

Oh, you just must block in three days of time to read Richard Binder's site. It is the bible of fountain pens, nibs, filling systems, good advice on inks and so many beautiful vintage fountain pens.

Once 96.3% of all I knew about pens came from Richard......now it's only 92.4%....after all, one should learn something....in a decade.

 

You are not grinding the tip....but half moons in the body of the nib behind the shoulders. That is where you are adding flexibility to the nib.

 

You could ask PB....Pendelton Brown if he has his Angle Wings (half moons) in a super narrow Creeper nib or how much it would cost. It could be cheaper than you think....and don't cost much.

He might have some on hand. For a while he had Ahab modded nibs on hand.

 

To tell the sad truth.....I have never thinned a nib .........first for a long time I only bought F nibbed pens because I needed that make and model as a place holder and 'better' (wider) nibs were not there; that day when the pen model I wanted was there and money was caught with a butterfly net. I didn't even use them.

 

(I was an idiot gold snob once for long enough to miss some good deal with Osmia pens....don't believe the gold nib is better myth. )

 

Slowly I ended up with a 'collection' of F nibs , and learned to like them. But EF I have few....6-8 out of close to 100. Most of those have some flex....semi/maxi or are vintage superflex. I have a brand new Pelikan 200 marbled brown, in I like regular flex and needed an EF to edit with.

 

I have a rare 7X Waterman 52 superflex wet noodle.(The crud you see on Youtube and sellers overstressing a nib to 7X and are making a newly sprung nib ) I have to sweat like hell to make that pen write EEF, think to make it write EF, and scribble normally to a F....in I still have a tad of heavy hand.....ok, ok...a tad Ham Fisted.

 

Many folks start out with real skinny nibs....and have their arms twisted to an M.....finding out eventually they like it....big wide, smooth sweet spot.........and it's only a short step to B and BB.

Edited August 4, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Honeybadgers]

The only downside I find to that mod is the nib becomes very mushy.

 

Just look around, there are #2 warranted or waterman ideal flex nibs out there on ebay for about $35-60, and they will fit many pens with #5 feeds. I ran a waterman ideal #2 wet noodle in a $10 chinese pen for months and it was awesome. Just be patient.

 

Or, if you REALLY want something customized specifically to your needs, Pablo over at FPnibs.com will make you a 14k jowo nib ground for lovely semiflex for about $150, or about $200-220 he will grind you a ridiculous wet noodle. My TWSBI vac700 is my flex nib pen, all it has is a modified feed and superflex nib from pablo, and it'll shame a waterman pink in terms of line variation, though it falls short on the snap back.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Inky_Splinters]

The only downside I find to that mod is the nib becomes very mushy.

 

Just look around, there are #2 warranted or waterman ideal flex nibs out there on ebay for about $35-60, and they will fit many pens with #5 feeds. I ran a waterman ideal #2 wet noodle in a $10 chinese pen for months and it was awesome. Just be patient.

 

Or, if you REALLY want something customized specifically to your needs, Pablo over at FPnibs.com will make you a 14k jowo nib ground for lovely semiflex for about $150, or about $200-220 he will grind you a ridiculous wet noodle. My TWSBI vac700 is my flex nib pen, all it has is a modified feed and superflex nib from pablo, and it'll shame a waterman pink in terms of line variation, though it falls short on the snap back.

 

I have dip nibs for when I want a wet noodle... and I don't have to worry about the bad karma from damaging a vintage nib if I spring one.

 

I'm mostly curious if a stock "flex" nib from one of the better known pen manufacturers could produce the kind of writing in the first 4 lines of the picture I posted. NOT the heavy flex text. That's there mostly for reference.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Somewhat mushy works, lots better than no superflex. Beats the hell out of the original Ahab nib.

Actually I scribble, and don't do much calligraphy, I'd not noticed how 'mushy' my Modded Ahab is.

 

Snapback is what one wants when one has learned to write Spencerian....over in the writers sections, snapback is much wished.

I do have a hand full of non-mushy superflex pens, in Easy Full Flex and some Wet Noodles.

 

I suggest Vintage German semi-flex pens of the ('30's) '50-70 era, but are actually more flair with out doing anything. If one lucks out....a Maxi-semi-flex does better for fancy.

If you don't want to buy a lot of pens, looking for luck; I highly recommend Osmia Supra nibs for what is wanted.....maxi-semi-flex......the steel is as grand as the gold nibs.

 

If you don't wish to go luck....get an Osmia Supra nibbed pen, they are maxi-semi-flex. The only ones where you can tell what flex the nib has. Number in a small diamond, semi-flex......Supra ..no number size, = maxi-semi-flex.

 

Could well have to have the pen re-corked. Francis/Fountainble does an admirable job, boiling the sized cork gasket in oil and beeswax the way it should be. Don't know who does that good a job in the states.........just putting a cork on is 1/4th the game. A number of the Osmia pens are before plastic gasket 1.0. Marshal&Oldfield in their book, Pen Repair state that properly done cork is the smoothest gasket.

 

Then your Osmia is good for the next 70 years......could be the Plastic Gasket Osmia-Faber-Castel pens are still ok......I have one that is.

 

Mash a regular flex to 3X tine spread vs a light down stroke. (not a writing stroke ...at all, just a testing stroke.)

Semi-flex takes half that pressure to go 3X. A wetter nib, that old fashioned fountain pen flair with out doing anything.

Maxi-semi-flex takes half of that or 1/4th the pressure needed to mash a regular flex to 3X. Much easier to do any fancy decenders or draw a fancy letter with than semi-flex.

The three are in a 3X tine spread max, set...........

 

Do read Richard Binder's article on metal fatigue. I call it how to spring your nib.

Strive not to max a nib, all the time.

It took me three months with my first semi-flex 140 OB to stop being Ham Fisted and maxing the nib all the time, to a lighter Hand.

 

A good poster said, stub and CI are 100% always line variation. Semi-flex is line variation On Demand.

So it took three months for me to get more into Demanding line variation than being so Ham Fisted I always had it.

 

The vintage German nibs are 1/2 narrower than modern....so a vintage EF would be close to the fatter Sailor nib.....close to Aurora. (Sailor is the fat Japanese nib....Pilot the skinny one, according to a respected Japanese poster here.

The only Japanese pen I ever had was a Sheaffer, but it was a nail so I sold it.)

 

I have a BCHR Osmia 76...a medium-large pen with good girth, in EF steel Supra nib, that I just had Francis re-cork for me. ...well in it's kept in a velvet bracelet box......I could ink that, in it will then never be jostled in the pen cups.............now to dither about which ink to put in it..

Pictures to show Osmia....Black Chased Hard Rubber....BCHR. When I was 'noobie' I thought BCHR much rarer than they were...then in the space of six months I had 4.....of course I had to jack my price border up to get the Osmia's...but that happens with time.

This is a gold Supra nib, mine is steel. (Depending on the pen, have 8 or so Osmia's. Have one or two smaller gold Supra nib pens also. )

 

 

 

These are Boehlers, actually the same Osmia pens after the company split in '38. My two 76's don't have that wonderful ink window. If I buy a pen, I get the picture to go with it.

 

I have to use up my old discontinued MB Sepia ...have a spare bottle, but the first bottle is down to what is in the heel of the shoe. I was pleasantly surprised, it shades on Clairefontaine 90g Velote` and the 90g Triomphe, and the 90g Rhoda. In I don't expect any to much shading with skinny nibs, like an EF.

 

My fancy letter is a Capitol L.....with thicker than EF (semi/maxi/ or superflex in EF) with a good ink and paper I can get a full English handlebar mustache out of it. This being an EF I got a nice Snidey Whiplash handlebar mustache out of it. It is after all a maxi....there for a wet writer.

 

So now I have my regular flex 200 marbled brown Pelikan and the 76 Osmia Supra/maxi to edit with....in EF is good for editing. I do prefer a bolder line.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Inky_Splinters]

Bo, those are some great suggestions for a vintage pen, but I'm really trying to find out if I can buy a modern pen with intact warranty that'll do what I want.

 

Vintage pens are great, but I'm not really in the market for any more.

I have a Waterman 52 1/2V with some variation on flexibility in the nib... but pulling out a 50+ year old pen to sign a form or take notes in a store makes me nervous.

 

Plus, grinding one of those nibs down to a 0.2mm point seems wasteful somehow.

 

I'm not afraid of paying $200-$300 for a pen, but I want a manufacturer to be standing behind the pen if a part breaks or doesn't function the way I want it to.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Don't make me the least bit nervous, in 50 year old pens are young.....60 year old pens are not to me something special......but that Osmia could be pre or just after the war....don't know. Not nervous but careful, about 70-80 year old pens

The new windows update junked my Imgur right now....or I'd show you a '38 full tortoise Boehler, I do take out.

 

Be more careful/nervous if I was to take out one of my two 52's (80-90 year old)....though there is no reason why.

I'm not known for dropping pens.......well, not yet.

 

What ever pen I grab I use to scratch out the store list......... You are right I'd not use my 52 for that....just about any other pen.

 

Modern post '97, have 4-5-6? pens.

Semi-vintage '82-97...10 or so.

Vintage (not counting the two '52's...more because it's wet noodle) for the take out and write with, 40-50, including Easy Full Flex superflex....will take more care of my 100n, than my 'no name' Pewado wWar pen with a Degussa nib, even if both are Easy Full Flex......the Pewado feels more sturdy than the 100n, which is prettier.

Sadly most folks even here in Germany wouldn't know the difference. Wouldn't cause any second looks like perhaps in the States.

 

 

On second thought I do have pens I don't take out of the house, the MB Woolf, a 14 K gold overlay (1) and or a rolled gold pen...(1)....(they are a bit heavy for a standard sized pen)....my Pelikan 500 Not with the OBBB nib in it , 100n, my 52's.

Might or might not take out a BCHR.

 

I have taken my (52-54 only) MB 234 1/2 Deluxe out, which could be the pen worth the most money I have....well back then, it was only worth half as much as now.

 

I do have pen cases, I seldom use. I could see putting better pens in them....if I thought about it. I am the proud owner of many shirt pockets........sigh, some polo shirts can only take a medium-small pen.....

 

If one fears taking a good pen out....there are lots of free ball points to have.

There is no difference between a good modern and a good vintage pen.....it's good, so one takes proper care of it.

 

 

 

Neglected to state the 76 is 600 size and a slight tad wider in girth.

0.200 is EEF western or is that even narrower?

And you are right....a waste of great EF nib...to grind it even narrower....to needle point.

Defiantly limits your ink choice though....nothing but supersaturated vivid inks to see the spiderwebs with.

No shading inks. I was surprised mine shaded....but then again it's maxi-semi-flex.

 

The problem with XXXF nibs in semi/maxi is they could well write a fat XF, due to tine spread.

 

Suggest you get a Pilot EF....western EEF, with the Pilot mod....half moons like the Ahab. Could get a Pilot EEF or XXXF western, needle point.

That's the only way for you to fly.....if you want semi-flex or even a bit more in a skinner than hell nib.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Bo Bo Olson

[Honeybadgers]

I can concur with Bo Bo that you can really use the hell out of vintage flex nibs. They don't spring like modern stuff does. You have to REALLY be an ape to damage one.

 

But if you want a modern pen that can keep up with throwing a super fine line into some modest spencerian flex without too much efford, you have a few options from the factory.

 

The pilot falcon, the pilot FA nib on a 912 (quite soft but quite prone to railroading, so they can need some tuning, the falcon is more "out of the box") are in the $150+ range.

 

In the $75-80 range, you have the pilot custom 74 and custom 91 with the soft fine nib, and from platinum, the 3776 soft fine.

 

If you're REALLY cheap, the 14k lucky nib from the wing sung 698 can be had for $50 and will keep up, but it won't have any warranty (though that nib is also very universal, fitting any steel nibbed pilot and almost every #5 nib. I keep it in my faber castell loom at the moment)

 

If you have $300 to drop, I have gone the route of the insane and bought a TWSBI vac700R from pablo at FPnibs.com. I had him modify the feed and grind down a 14k JoWo semiflex nib down into an XXF and give it a ludicrous amount of flex with a keyhole punch. The thing is as soft as any vintage wet noodle and works great, but super wet hairlines are just not great for everyday writing. The pilot custom 74 with a soft fine nib for about $75 and a CON-70 converter gets my nod. You'll love it. If you like a little more feedback and a slightly firmer but still modestly flexible (think western EF-B ) the platinum 3776 SF nib is a winner and that whole pen looks like it costs $500.

Edited August 7, 2018 by Honeybadgers

[Inky_Splinters]

Thanks guys!

I was hoping the soft fine nibs would do what I want... Sounds like it is definitely worth trying one.

[ReadyFireAim]

 

I thought about going the mod route, but after attempting to regrind tips on a few cheap chinese nibs, I've decided I don't have the manual dexterity (or eyes)to grind a fine/EF point. That's the biggest part of my problem. Noodler's pens aren't fine enough for my taste.

 

Vintage or modern, you'll have the same problem, a big glob of tipping & a fat line.

 

You have to either figure out how to grind one down yourself or send it out.

That means spending $75 on a $5 Creaper nib.

 

BTW...It's well worth it.

Changed my life

 

Also...If you're having to push hard on a Creaper, you have it set up wrong or are using bad technique.

So many people have accused me of being a nail bender that I adopted the name.

It's all finesse and I don't press hard at all.

 

Do a search of my posts for a lot of Creaper writing examples like this one.

 

Edited August 9, 2018 by Nail-Bender

[Honeybadgers]

Also, the creaper nib is substantially softer than the ahab/konrad.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Also, the creaper nib is substantially softer than the ahab/konrad.

Didn't know that......but the nib is cheap, one could do the half moon mod on it and see what comes out.

 

If one goes to the repair section there should be threads and posts on how to grind down a nib to very narrow, properly.

I've never done that having gone wide out of M at first, and have few western vintage EF nibs which are narrow enough for me.