Hooded nib pens

[meanwhile]

Having a hood over the nib of a pen seems to be an obvious advantage - it makes the pen much more resistant to drying out while "idling", pampers temperamental inks, and may help reduce ink loss through evapaoration, making pens write longer on the same amount of ink.

 

So why are the Lamy 2K and a few Parker 51 clones the only hooded nib design in current production? Even the modern Aurora 88 only trades on the name of its illustrious hooded ancestor.

 

My theories:

 

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

 

2. More optimistically, improved feed design and better inks make hooding less desireable than it used to be. It's still a good thing, but pens can manage much better without it than they could in say, 1955.

 

3. Hooded designs have higher manufacturing costs and can't role off a standard production line.

 

4. The inlaid nib provides many of the benefits of hooded nib while providing more visible bling, so "technical" pens like the Pilot Falcon and Waterman Edson that might have been candidates for hooding have gone this route instead.

 

But I'd put my money on 1. as the dominating factor.

[TYoung]

Good question. I'd certainly use a fountain pen more often if more were offered with hooded nibs. I always wished that Parker had made the Sonnet with a hooded nib. The Parker 100 is good but it's a bit too big for shirt pockets.

[Richard]

2. More optimistically, improved feed design and better inks make hooding less desireable than it used to be. It's still a good thing, but pens can manage much better without it than they could in say, 1955.

Hooded nibs came into being as a specific and necessary result of the existence of a super fast-drying ink that Parker developed in the 1930s. It dried so fast that it would dry out in an open nib/feed arrangement while the pen was in use. The ink, and the pen that Parker invented to solve the dryout problem, became the "51". Once "51" ink and its successor Superchrome were off the market, the need for hooded nibs disappeared. Any hooded nibs introduced since the mid-1950s were designed for appearance only, not because of need.

[meanwhile]

2. More optimistically, improved feed design and better inks make hooding less desireable than it used to be. It's still a good thing, but pens can manage much better without it than they could in say, 1955.

Hooded nibs came into being as a specific and necessary result of the existence of a super fast-drying ink that Parker developed in the 1930s. It dried so fast that it would dry out in an open nib/feed arrangement while the pen was in use. The ink, and the pen that Parker invented to solve the dryout problem, became the "51". Once "51" ink and its successor Superchrome were off the market, the need for hooded nibs disappeared. Any hooded nibs introduced since the mid-1950s were designed for appearance only, not because of need.

 

Superchrome was certainly the motivation for the 51's hood - but do the benefits stop there?

 

Would you really say that the presence of hood has nothing to do with the 51's (and the Lamy 27's and Lamy 2000's) resistance to drying out when left uncapped? This a damned important feature for people like me, who use pens for "thinking" tasks (in my case software design) where there might be long pauses for thought - it's something I rate even higher than out of the box nib smoothness (a nib can always be smoothed) or ink capacity. When I look at the pens I've ended up using most, they're definitely the 3 or 4 pens I've found that most resist drying out - the 51 found its way back into my rotation for just this reason, although I find the nib bland and took a long time to really like the feel of the pen body.

 

Again, I would would have thought that in a sensibly designed feed system the nib is the primary source of evaporation. The less area exposed, the lower the rate in a probably linear relationship. Is there any reason you'd say that this isn't likely to bee true? Or do you think that this (contrary to say Dubiel) isn't really an important feature in how a pen conserves ink?

 

Finally, Superchrome isn't the last troublesome ink ever made: the UK Eternals have a horrible reputation (ok: Richard is probably the last person who would know this, as the most famous avoider of the entire Noodler's range..) but they seem to write better in a 51 than unhooded pens. (I'm basing this on scant evidence, mind you: a post of Carries where she tried one offender in almost half a dozen pens - the legibility of the ink being far better in a 51 than anything else).

 

Edited June 13, 2007 by meanwhile

[Dan Carmell]

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

 

But I'd put my money on 1. as the dominating factor.

 

And I agree with you, folks want to see a big gold nib for both the reasons you mention, which also answers the occasional questions around here about why gold vs. steel for nibs.

 

While Richard's response is technically correct, I don't think it addresses the continued popularity of the 51, 61, and even the 45 for the decades these pens were in production, long after the withdrawal of 51/Superchrome ink. As others mention, hooded nibbed pens perform, by and large, more like a ballpoint, from rigidity to resistance to drying, and made them more able to compete with a ballpoint.

 

But now that the use of fountain pens is restricted to status symbol wielders (some of us!), the truly devoted (others of us) and the obsessed (all the rest of us and some of the former groups!), a hooded nibbed pen is an acquired taste.

 

Dan

[wiglaf]

Yet another provocative topic- one that will challenge the experts. Not being one myself, I feel without compunction as I respond: hooded nibs are for hood-lovers- perhaps those who wish their intentions to be sub rosa, or perhaps those who appreciate the aesthetics of the nib style.

Meanwhile, there is little to be gained from baiting the opposition- in a fountain pen forum, no less.

There has arisen, lately, I think, a posting genre akin to flaming- in which posters, believing they are blessed with arcane information, and a need to tease members into response- then spring some sort of arcancer surprise.

Reminds me of the archetypal mother who demands of her child, "Who did this?" while in a location populated soley by the addressee-

I think lately, we too are being populated by those who seem to know, yet merely blast from leftover arsenals- perhaps I am wrong, and am too locked into a past that youngsters neither know nor understand.

But, knowledge without understanding will never mature into wisdom, merely thunder w/o lightning.

 

Tony

[Paddler]

Having a hood over the nib of a pen seems to be an obvious advantage - it makes the pen much more resistant to drying out while "idling", pampers temperamental inks, and may help reduce ink loss through evapaoration, making pens write longer on the same amount of ink.

 

So why are the Lamy 2K and a few Parker 51 clones the only hooded nib design in current production? Even the modern Aurora 88 only trades on the name of its illustrious hooded ancestor.

 

My theories:

 

1. Modern pens are primarily status symbols, and secondly nostalgia pieces. A visible piece of (preferably gold coloured) metal is a large part of their appeal in either role - writing quality is secondary.

 

2. More optimistically, improved feed design and better inks make hooding less desireable than it used to be. It's still a good thing, but pens can manage much better without it than they could in say, 1955.

 

3. Hooded designs have higher manufacturing costs and can't role off a standard production line.

 

4. The inlaid nib provides many of the benefits of hooded nib while providing more visible bling, so "technical" pens like the Pilot Falcon and Waterman Edson that might have been candidates for hooding have gone this route instead.

 

But I'd put my money on 1. as the dominating factor.

 

You left one out. Some of us don't like the looks of a hooded nib. I have three Parker 21s and they just don't sing to me; something wrong with the proportions. They write well, they feel good in my hand and they are well-behaved if I perform their storage ritual properly, but I can't stand the sight of 'em.

 

Paddler

 

[sleek_lover]

There are SLEEKS and there are TRADS...

 

SLEEKS are cool

 

TRADS are cubes

 

SLEEKS are BAUHAUS

 

TRADS  are GOTH

 

Nuff said.

 

Bill...definitely of the SLEEK tribe...

[meanwhile]

Yet another provocative topic- one that will challenge the experts. Not being one myself, I feel without compunction as I respond: hooded nibs are for hood-lovers- perhaps those who wish their intentions to be sub rosa, or perhaps those who appreciate the aesthetics of the nib style.

 

Very Freudian!

 

Meanwhile, there is little to be gained from baiting the opposition- in a fountain pen forum, no less.

 

Excuse me - where was I other than scrupulously polite in responding to Richard?

 

As I understand things - but I'm not certain - Richard agrees that the 51 and other succesful other hooded nibs are lower evaporation designs; he just thinks that there are no benefits to this without inks like the fast drying one the 51 was made for. As I've said, I disagree: I and quite a few other people like pens that don't dry out while we're thinking. I really don't think that saying this is baiting, and I would be staggered, literally staggered, if Richard was provoked to anger by the thought that some people aren't as good as him at remembering to put the cap of their pen back on mid-flow...

 

There has arisen, lately, I think, a posting genre akin to flaming- in which posters, believing they are blessed with arcane information, and a need to tease members into response- then spring some sort of arcancer surprise.

 

If you really think that knowing what a ph level is, or that evaporation is proportional to surface, counts as possession of arcane knowledge, then presumably you view firemaking and knowledge of the lever as evidence of sorcery?

 

Yes, some of the debates on politics and MB's have been a bit heated recently, and I've been in both. In the context of this thread, so what? As for the claim of my deliberately setting up situations where I ambush people with superior knowledge, in all these threads I've only responded factually to false claims that other people made. Why you believe I should be censured for responding with correct knowledge of what, say, the effects of a mildly acidic ink are going to be on a stainless nibbed pen, when another poster is trying to terrify people into believing that their nibs will dissolve, is quite beyond me.

 

Look! That man knows that a rainbow is caused by diffraction! Burn him as a witch!

Edited June 13, 2007 by meanwhile

[EventHorizon]

I vote example #1 also. I do like Richards response though.

[meanwhile]

You left one out. Some of us don't like the looks of a hooded nib. I have three Parker 21s and they just don't sing to me; something wrong with the proportions. They write well, they feel good in my hand and they are well-behaved if I perform their storage ritual properly, but I can't stand the sight of 'em.

 

Paddler

 

Very good point.

 

Based on my possession of arcane knowledge, I diagnose underlying cirumcision fear...

 

Which I must share, as I'm so-so on the 51's looks myself: I only ended using it because it doesn't dry out as quickly as other pens.

Edited June 13, 2007 by meanwhile

[Lloyd]

My only pen, including a 'P51', that likes the UK ink "El Lawrence" is a Safari. El Lawrence works well with the Safari's F,M & 1.1 ital nibs.

[meanwhile]

My only pen, including a 'P51', that likes the UK ink "El Lawrence" is a Safari. El Lawrence works well with the Safari's F,M & 1.1 ital nibs.

 

Empirical data!

 

Lawrence does seem to be the only UK Eternal that has anything like a reasonably positive rep. though. I'd love to know if can be cured with the Tryphon ink flow additive...

[meanwhile]

As others mention, hooded nibbed pens perform, by and large, more like a ballpoint, from rigidity to resistance to drying, and made them more able to compete with a ballpoint.

 

I never thought of the extra rigidity - although it seems to make sense now you've mentioned it, depending on how tight the pen is around the hood. The 51 feels that way, but I'd asumed it was because of the tubular nib. "Like a ballpoint" summarizes why I didn't like the 51 at first - it felt too neutral, perhaps not exactly like a ballpoint, but very close to some technical pens.

 

My other thought (and I feel I'm on thin ice now) is that the four hooded best - the 51, Lamy 27, L2K, and Aurora 88 pens all have unusually effective, even "over-powered", feed mechanisms. Quite possibly thes needed the protection of a hood to stop them from drying out?

 

[Lloyd]

My only pen, including a 'P51', that likes the UK ink "El Lawrence" is a Safari. El Lawrence works well with the Safari's F,M & 1.1 ital nibs.

 

Empirical data!

What's with the exclamation point? Am I on trial? Obviously, it's empirical. Pretty much all data is empirical. Unless one can prove this without using the ink, it'll be an empirical observation.

Many FPN users here used El Law and had bad to mediocre flow. If it weren't for the great color & eternal character, I doubt these users would accept this ink.

Lawrence does seem to be the only UK Eternal that has anything like a reasonably positive rep. though. I'd love to know if can be cured with the Tryphon ink flow additive...

I've used two batches of El Lawrence (NT sent me a free second bottle of his subsequent attempt) and I've tried several remedies with no avail.

[meanwhile]

My only pen, including a 'P51', that likes the UK ink "El Lawrence" is a Safari. El Lawrence works well with the Safari's F,M & 1.1 ital nibs.

 

Empirical data!

What's with the exclamation point? Am I on trial? Obviously, it's empirical.

 

That's what I'm saying - as in "Excellent - empirical data!"

 

Sheesh, you explain to one guy that a scary sounding "Ph of 3.4!" is actually 1 spoonful of vinegar to about 15 of water and everyone thinks you're a monster... But yes, what I wrote was highly amiguous.

 

Pretty much all data is empirical.

 

Good point.

 

Unless one can prove this without using the ink, it'll be an empirical observation.

Many FPN users here used El Law and had bad to mediocre flow. If it weren't for the great color & eternal character, I doubt these users would accept this ink.

 

Isn't it also one of the Noodlers that people says smells weird?

 

[Johnny Appleseed]

Actually, I think that the Hooded nib design was very successful and widely copied in both full and semi-hooded designs. The popularity has wained a bit in the most recent years, though the various P51 clones by Hero seem to still be quite popular in their market (perhaps because they are used and compete more directly with ball-points in the asian market?).

 

But in the hayday of the Parker 51, some variation on the hooded nib was copied by Aurora, MontBlanc, Moore, and scads of smaller companies (eg the Webster I posted on in the repair section yesterday). Some were more semi-hooded than hooded, and few as technically well designed as the P51, but all trying to compete with the concept.

 

I think the key is that once ball-points and roller-balls bacame the norm, then Fountain Pen users wanted to look like they were usuing a fountain pen. A number of semi-hooded designs around today - eg. the Waterman Carene, all of Sheaffer inlaid-nib designs - are trying to do both - giving you a big chunk of metal to look at, while hooding most of the feed to reduce evaporation.

 

John

[jonro]

I've never thought of my fountain pens as a status symbol. For me, they are the best tools for the task of writing on paper surfaces. If I wanted a status symbol, I would probably buy a big MB rollerball instead of 20+ fountain pens. I prefer the look of a big nib and I feel that I write better with them because their size allows me to write with a more convenient angle. I do have a couple of pens with hooded nibs. I have a Namiki VP and a P51. I had not thought about hooded nibs being more immune to drying out. I'm also a software developer, and while I remember to cap my pens, I would rather not have to do so quite as often. When I'm at my desk, I tend to use pens that cap quickly and easily when I'm doing a lot of "stop and go" writing. Maybe I'll use hooded nibs more often to see if I notice a difference.

 

I'm not sure that fountain pens are really a status symbol. Usually a status symbol is something that most people covet and cannot afford. I've never met anyone who said, "Boy, if only I could afford a fountain pen; I wouldn't have to write with this damn rollerball." That isn't to say that we, as fountain pen users and collectors don't have status symbols (i.e., Jules the Squid Pen). But we all know that there are plenty of excellent fountain pens for less than $100 and I've never seen anyone imply that "their ink smells better" because it's flowing from fine Italian celluloid.

 

Anyway, interesting thread. It got me thinking about hooded nibs again.

[dedalus]

they're butt ugly that's why.

 

IMHO....

[meanwhile]

Actually, I think that the Hooded nib design was very successful and widely copied in both full and semi-hooded designs.

 

I did say that! At least I think I did.

 

But in the hayday of the Parker 51, some variation on the hooded nib was copied by Aurora, MontBlanc, Moore, and scads of smaller companies (eg the Webster I posted on in the repair section yesterday). Some were more semi-hooded than hooded, and few as technically well designed as the P51, but all trying to compete with the concept.

 

Have you read Myu's Lamy 27 review? It's facinating.

 

a number of semi-hooded designs around today - eg. the Waterman Carene, all of Sheaffer inlaid-nib designs - are trying to do both - giving you a big chunk of metal to look at, while hooding most of the feed to reduce evaporation.

 

That's a brilliant point. I was just thinking (while reading RB's classic article on the 51) that protecting the collector from evaporation was more important than protecting the metal surface of the nib.