Fat Pens

[Laureat75]

I have been musing on the reasons why some people prefer fat pens, and it occurred to me to see if there were such a thing as a fat scalpel.

 

Why scalpels? Well, we would all hope when we go under the knife that the surgeon would have chosen his weapon with care, and would be wielding it with great skill and precision If fat scalpels were capable of being used with greater precision than thin scalpels then we would expect to see fat scalpels everywhere. Or at least we would hope to.

 

But we don't. A very cursory survey (Google and click on images) reveals that scalpel handles are commonly thin and either round or flat, never fat. The flatness is partly to accommodate the blade, and perhaps also to help maintain the correct angle. The thinness is presumably because fatness doesn't help.

 

I have reached no earth-shattering conclusions from this ten second exercise, but it does suggest that having a fat pen is unlikely to make people write any better. Possibly the reverse. And it also reinforces a theory of mine, which is that there really isn't any objective difference between highly expensive pens and very cheap ones. Some of my cheapest pens write just as well as the most expensive - often better in fact. But I PREFER to write with my more expensive pens because they look and feel better. Much better, in most cases.

 

It is no coincidence that when fountain pens became effectively obsolete, they became more beautiful in order to survive. Beauty, in fact, became their raison d'etre. And thank goodness for that. But let us not kid ourselves that fatness or a huge price tag are necessary for good hand-writing.

 

Or are they?

 

Discuss.

[praxim]

I would prefer that a surgeon cut where necessary rather than writing a dissertation on my body, and that if it were done when 'tis done, then 'twere well if it were done quickly, rather than hacking about for a couple of hours as one might with a pen (so to speak).

 

I think the routine actions for scalpels differ from those for a pen even though some are done with a pen grip, and trade-offs between precision and longer term comfort also vary. If the pen is used for drawing, that may be closer.

 

Having pens of narrow to wide girths, I agree that nothing could improve my writing.

 

 

edit: insert a missing word. Minor consequential adjustments to punctuation.

Edited November 2, 2017 by praxim

[jar]

but if you look at hobby knives and wood working tools you will find ...?

[Laureat75]

but if you look at hobby knives and wood working tools you will find ...?

 

 

Good point. But would you prefer to be operated on by a wood-worker with his knife, or by a surgeon with a scalpel?

 

I suspect that a wood-worker's knife needs a fat handle because wood requires much more effort to cut through than does human flesh. The fatness helps to spread the load.

[effrafax]

Remember also that the scalpel is generally only used for the grosser work of opening up the body, to put it bluntly (note, IANAS!**). Once inside, more refined tools are used by the surgeon. Comparing a scalpel to a pen is a bit "oranges and apples" really.

 

Even scalpel use is being reduced dramatically with the increasing use of key-hole surgery and similar techniques.

 

[** "I am not a surgeon". I'm happy to be corrected of my naive views!]

[zaddick]

10 seconds of research yields 10 seconds worth of insights. I draw no similar conclusions from your scalpel research and subsequent jump to apply it to fountain pens.

 

If you are happy with slim, low cost pens with steel nibs then your money is best spent where it will give you more utility. My experience and preferences have not brought me to the same observations you shared.

 

The good news for me is there is lots of space in this hobby for everyone and their preferences!

[Pickwick]

 

 

Good point. But would you prefer to be operated on by a wood-worker with his knife, or by a surgeon with a scalpel?

 

I suspect that a wood-worker's knife needs a fat handle because wood requires much more effort to cut through than does human flesh. The fatness helps to spread the load.

 

A woodworker's knife with a thicker handle means that greater pressure can be applied when necessary, which is not possible with a thin handle. I'm a bit perturbed about you describing a surgeon's scalpel as a weapon which is not its purpose unless of course it is used by another for lethal use. Also bear in mind the difficulties a fat handled scalpel might well hamper cutting through tissue to any depth. All tools are carefully designed to fulfill a specific purpose.

 

A fat pen may well help an individual improve their writing especially if they have a handicap. All of us are individuals in our own right and it all comes down to personal preference.

 

In fact you made a valid point when you stated that you prefer more expensive pens, that is your choice.

[jekostas]

I have been musing on the reasons why some people prefer fat pens, and it occurred to me to see if there were such a thing as a fat scalpel.

 

Why scalpels? Well, we would all hope when we go under the knife that the surgeon would have chosen his weapon with care, and would be wielding it with great skill and precision If fat scalpels were capable of being used with greater precision than thin scalpels then we would expect to see fat scalpels everywhere. Or at least we would hope to.

 

But we don't. A very cursory survey (Google and click on images) reveals that scalpel handles are commonly thin and either round or flat, never fat. The flatness is partly to accommodate the blade, and perhaps also to help maintain the correct angle. The thinness is presumably because fatness doesn't help.

 

I have reached no earth-shattering conclusions from this ten second exercise, but it does suggest that having a fat pen is unlikely to make people write any better. Possibly the reverse. And it also reinforces a theory of mine, which is that there really isn't any objective difference between highly expensive pens and very cheap ones. Some of my cheapest pens write just as well as the most expensive - often better in fact. But I PREFER to write with my more expensive pens because they look and feel better. Much better, in most cases.

 

It is no coincidence that when fountain pens became effectively obsolete, they became more beautiful in order to survive. Beauty, in fact, became their raison d'etre. And thank goodness for that. But let us not kid ourselves that fatness or a huge price tag are necessary for good hand-writing.

 

Or are they?

 

Discuss.

 

This comparison is completely absurd and totally, utterly useless. I'm not cutting someone open with a fountain pen (short, precise strokes), and I wouldn't be trying to write in cursive with a scalpel (long, smooth, looping movements).

 

I prefer wide, light-bodied pens because I have arthritis, and they're much easier to hold for me and thus cause less hand fatigue.

Edited November 2, 2017 by jekostas

[displacermoose]

I prefer wide, light-bodied pens because I have arthritis, and they're much easier to hold for me and thus cause less hand fatigue.

 

This. Fat pens mean that I can write comfortably even on bad days. Slim pens cause horrible pain on anything but the very best days. I use fatter pens so that I can enjoy writing.

[ThomasB]

If I were doing my own surgery, I would prefer a fat scalpel handle...but luckily I would not do my own surgery, nor am I surgeon, and nor did I sleep at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

[catbert]

No offense intended to those who suffer it, but if thin scalpels rule out arthritic surgeons, so much the better.

 

There's an element of display, I think, in the way fountain pens have grown in size. They are no longer the primary tool for the job in the way that scalpels (presumably) continue to be (also not a surgeon). Perhaps when robotic laser scalpels are the norm, some surgeons will whip out the 149 of scalpels and cut people up old-school.

[PS104]

I think catbert is nibbling around the edges. Many pens and other implements are now geared toward the baby boomers who are reaching a certain age where arthritis and other maladies are beginning to affect one's ability to write comfortably. Back in the 50s and 60s they were younger and could handle the then-in-vogue thinner pens etc. Times have changed and so have the people. Even the giveaway BPs are significantly larger in girth. And it won't end when the last baby boomer dies because the next generation will encounter the same problems as they age.

Of course this is excluding the people with larger and smaller hands who would naturally (but not always) find larger or thinner writing implements more comfortably

[SoulSamurai]

I've been down that same avenue of thought (or a similar one at least), and my conclusion was that thinner pens can be better for slow precise lines, while fatter pens allow for a more relaxed grip that can be more comfortable (depending on your hand size etc). So for me, thinner pens seem more appropriate for drawing, where I need to make precise lines, while a slightly fatter pen is more comfortable for extended writing sessions where I just want the pen to glide smoothly and effortlessly across the paper, and I don't need every individual line to be perfect.

[senzen]

You carve with a knife as you do with a ball point pen, while you glide with a fountain pen, so the ergonomics are different. I eventually realized one of my problems with pens: I started with a Parker Vector, which as I tried it recently is thin and very uncomfortable to me. My bigger diameter if not quite fat pens are more comfortable for me: Pelikan m600 "old style", Sailor Pro Gear., Le Man 100 It's a shame fatter pens are so much more expensive (I don't do Chinese knockoffs).

[Sasha Royale]

The Parker 45 is a great writer. It's thinnest suits carry. However, for long writing sessions, at home or away, I prefer a FAT, HEAVY fountain pen. The larger size offers good

contact with my hand, without the "clutching" required of a thinner pen. The greater weight lets the pen "self-settle" into the web of my thumb and fore finger. An exaggerated

case is my Pelikan M1000 , with a wet, medium nib. It cradles in my writing hand, with almost no effort. It is like a sailboat, in open sea, running before the wind. Effortless.

Edited November 2, 2017 by Sasha Royale

[ISW_Kaputnik]

I dislike pens that seem fat to me, and like several which are quite slim, such as the Montblanc Noblesse, Pilot Myu, and a number of my vintage lever fillers. I think one reason some people prefer fat to thin is that they grip a thin one too tightly, perhaps in an unconscious effort to keep it from getting away. For myself, it seems easier to control a thin pen as long as one holds it loosely. If somebody else told me that it was easier to control a fat pen, I'd have to accept that it was true for him.

 

On the other hand, the only really fat fountain pen I have is a Jinhao 159. There are a few others which are thicker than I quite like, and probably get used less as a result. Before getting into fountain pens, I know I did not care to write for a long time with a chubby ballpoint, such as some multi-pens that I had. For long writing, I preferred a Parker Jotter, which is quite skinny.

 

And if a slim writing instrument throws you off, imagine writing during the quill pen era, or later when steel dip pens became standard.

 

But I'd have to agree with those who doubt the validity of a comparison with surgical instruments or other tools.

[Ed_Usinowicz]

I have been musing on the reasons why some people prefer fat pens

 

 

Hand size and structure for me. My palm is very broad and my fingers resemble sausage links. My wife has a friend that remarks that I don't have hands but paws. A larger pen is just more comfortable for me to hold.

[Laureat75]

Thank you for all the replies.

 

I hesitate to draw any firm conclusions from such a small sample, but of those who replied and expressed a preference for fat pens, the chief reason seems to be one of age-related infirmity, rather than an aesthetic preference. As a person lucky enough not to have such a problem (yet) that revelation came as a slight surprise to me, though perhaps it shouldn't have done.

 

Mont Blancs, because of their cost, have always been aimed at older and therefore wealthier buyers, and it seems that their marketing people know exactly what they are doing.

 

And Jekostas, thank you for your amusing contribution.

[PaganArcher]

I detest thin pens. Or knife handles. Then only place I want thin is the grip of my sidearm.

 

My two favorite pens are a Visconti Homo Sapiens Maxi and a Noodler's Neponset. But, as my friends put it, I'm a half Jotun ox. I have large hands and thin pens cause an unnecessary discomfort when writing. And it is not age related.

 

To compare the tools of life saving procedure to the tools of personal expression is, in solely my opinion, asinine and arbitrary to an unseen level.

 

Use what you like. There are bigger things to worry about in life than trying to discern why a market exists if you're on the outside of that market.

[OMASsimo]

I think this has little to do with functionality and much rather is all about fashion trends. In the old days, when fountain pens were the ubiquitous writing instrument, both their average length and girth were very moderate compared to now. Yes, people were a little shorter on average as well (and much less overweight) but not to the same degree that pens used to be smaller. I do have some very big and fat pens and love to write with them because they are awesome writers. Some of them have sterling silver sections and thus are quite heavy but I still can write 10 pages with them without effort. Some of my fat pens are all celluloid and extremely lightweight and writing with them for a long time is similarly pleasing. By contrast, the majority of my vintage pens from the 1920s to 1960s are small and thin pens with much more flexible nibs. Writing with those is very different from writing with the modern big tanks. It's like the difference of fencing with a floret or a sward. It needs a bit more practice to write with such a pen but once you got used to it it feels like heaven and is extremely comfortable.

 

One observation I made is that I tend to write smaller and more precisely with my vintage pens and much larger with my fat modern pens. From this I deduce that I much rather have surgeons use skinny handles on their scalpels.