The Great Cursive Writing Debate: Lost Art Or Vital Skill?

[Pensei]

I must be dense, but I don't see how this is even a question.

[JFB]

The "science" link in this article ends up only about "handwriting," and makes no distinction between cursive and other forms of handwriting, connected or non-connected.

 

Cursive has no lasting particular efficacy above other forms of handwriting. This is a cultural value, and cultural values change. I am a teacher and we teach cursive in my town in the elementary school. It is done for cultural reasons, not as a specific or improved learning tool (it is not one.) I teach high school and have no preference of one form of handwriting over another from my students as long as it is legible.

 

 

From the few studies I've glanced over in the past few days (this thread piqued my interest) cursive,what the good sisters at my elementary school simply called writing, as opposed to printing, seems to bestow a few more benefits than printing.

 

My handwriting was atrocious until, in the 6th grade, the sisters had me switch to a fountain pen. That changed everything.

 

I do feel legible handwriting, like basic arithmetic and similar skills really should be taught since I think they help higher thinking and self reliance. Mind you, I'm not opposed to teaching children to avail themselves of machine assistance, but they should know how to get along with them. When we make things too easy we lose abilities and eventually self determination.

 

I work with a person studying for her second masters degree and it is downright painful watching her cashing out her draw at the end of her shift. She seems unable to simply count out, adding groups of bills up to smaller amounts and then adding them up to larger groups &c.

 

I have also noticed that many of the younger people I work with-all college educated & all very attached to their cellphones and lap top-have a very difficult time, for the most part, stringing together a series of comprehensive sentences. Sadly they also don't seem to care.

 

I feel like they are lacking a very important foundation formed of these very basic skills.... Not that I'm a candidate for the Algonquin Round Table!

 

I certainly hope writing makes a comeback. Palmer Method is quick, easy and legible and that's all you need.

 

Pax,

John

[ParkerDuofold]

From the few studies I've glanced over in the past few days (this thread piqued my interest) cursive,what the good sisters at my elementary school simply called writing, as opposed to printing, seems to bestow a few more benefits than printing.

 

My handwriting was atrocious until, in the 6th grade, the sisters had me switch to a fountain pen. That changed everything.

 

I do feel legible handwriting, like basic arithmetic and similar skills really should be taught since I think they help higher thinking and self reliance. Mind you, I'm not opposed to teaching children to avail themselves of machine assistance, but they should know how to get along with them. When we make things too easy we lose abilities and eventually self determination.

 

I work with a person studying for her second masters degree and it is downright painful watching her cashing out her draw at the end of her shift. She seems unable to simply count out, adding groups of bills up to smaller amounts and then adding them up to larger groups &c.

 

I have also noticed that many of the younger people I work with-all college educated & all very attached to their cellphones and lap top-have a very difficult time, for the most part, stringing together a series of comprehensive sentences. Sadly they also don't seem to care.

 

I feel like they are lacking a very important foundation formed of these very basic skills.... Not that I'm a candidate for the Algonquin Round Table!

 

I certainly hope writing makes a comeback. Palmer Method is quick, easy and legible and that's all you need.

 

Pax,

John

Hi John,

 

It's a classic case of if you don't use it; you lose it. Here the other day I was sitting at my dining room table and wanted to divide a do a little long division... but I just stared down at the paper with a blank look and zoned out...

 

... granted, it made for a nice little break in the day, but I also realized that I've been relying on calculators so long, I forgot the formula for long division.

 

Fortunately, I had the internet to fall back on, to remind me how it's done. But it just goes to show you how important it is to turn all the buttons OFF every now and then and do things "old school," or before you know it, you'll be "no school."

 

Be well and enjoy life.

 

 

- Anthony

[inkstainedruth]

 

 

From the few studies I've glanced over in the past few days (this thread piqued my interest) cursive,what the good sisters at my elementary school simply called writing, as opposed to printing, seems to bestow a few more benefits than printing.

 

My handwriting was atrocious until, in the 6th grade, the sisters had me switch to a fountain pen. That changed everything.

 

I do feel legible handwriting, like basic arithmetic and similar skills really should be taught since I think they help higher thinking and self reliance. Mind you, I'm not opposed to teaching children to avail themselves of machine assistance, but they should know how to get along with them. When we make things too easy we lose abilities and eventually self determination.

 

I work with a person studying for her second masters degree and it is downright painful watching her cashing out her draw at the end of her shift. She seems unable to simply count out, adding groups of bills up to smaller amounts and then adding them up to larger groups &c.

 

I have also noticed that many of the younger people I work with-all college educated & all very attached to their cellphones and lap top-have a very difficult time, for the most part, stringing together a series of comprehensive sentences. Sadly they also don't seem to care.

 

I feel like they are lacking a very important foundation formed of these very basic skills.... Not that I'm a candidate for the Algonquin Round Table!

 

I certainly hope writing makes a comeback. Palmer Method is quick, easy and legible and that's all you need.

 

Pax,

John

 

Compared to some people I've run across (and apparently you have, too) who are glued to their phones, you *would* be a candidate for the Algonquin Round Table....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[Studio97]

Quote JFB "

I have also noticed that many of the younger people I work with-all college educated & all very attached to their cellphones and lap top-have a very difficult time, for the most part, stringing together a series of comprehensive sentences. Sadly they also don't seem to care" quote.

 

Where I used to work if someone was interested in a job we required a hand written resume: cursive or hand printed. It was a test of written communication skills and could we at least remotely be able to read their writing. (We learned that someone other than the applicant could prepare, type and print a resume). Many did not care to turn in a resume either.

I sent snail mail today and printed my letter. Admittedly, my cursive can resemble an EKG.

[Ergative]

 

I must disagree with this. If you write text (as a writer, or for a personal journal, etc...) the result is different depending on whether you use a keyboard or write by hand. Not necessarily better, but different. If you want a similar comparison, try dictating an essay or article into a voice recorder and see how it comes out.

. . .

I think both by-hand and by-key should to be available to best allow you to think clearly and to express your thoughts clearly. Then you can choose what works best in the particular circumstance. Part of your job as a thinking person is to pick the tool that works best.

 

If you never had the opportunity to learn writing by hand, and it isn't an available choice, so much the poorer for you.

 

Markh, I don't think we disagree at all! Just as with you draw a distinction between the process of hand-writing vs. typing, I believe I can draw the same distinction between machine-made, factory-made clothing and home-made clothing. With factory clothes, the fits are much more approximate, for example, and the fashions much more uniform. Embroidery or decoration doesn't reflect the maker's taste any more, so much as a marketing director's guess at what most people's taste will be like next season. But this doesn't mean factory clothing is worse---it's affordable, abundant, and machine-washable, for one thing, and people don't have only one best dress any more. Also, people's clothes aren't as dependent on their own individual skills. In the old days, a (poor) woman who couldn't sew well could not dress herself and her family well, and everyone could see it just by looking at them. Now, everyone can buy the same jeans.

 

So: factory clothing vs home-made: Both have trade-offs and advantages, and both are very different ways of dressing yourself, and both have a place in society. Likewise with typing vs. writing. Trade-offs and advantages, and both are very different ways of organizing and expressing your thoughts. True, the balance in both cases has shifted towards the mechanized version (factories, typing), but the hand-made version is still around, and still represents a different way of interacting with the craft. I think our two views are absolutely compatible.

[JFB]

Hi John,

 

It's a classic case of if you don't use it; you lose it. ...

 

- Anthony

 

 

 

Compared to some people I've run across (and apparently you have, too) who are glued to their phones, you *would* be a candidate for the Algonquin Round Table....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

Where I used to work if someone was interested in a job we required a hand written resume...

 

Anthony, I agree, many of the basics. like long division have long fled my porous mind , but with lots of these "kids", I think, they never learned many of the basics.

 

Now I have to look up how to do long division again!

 

Ruth, WOW! High praise thanks!

 

Studio97, I like that idea-a hand written résumé. I typed (manual Underwood Champion) mine and I was told a few years later, that it had become a subject of great interest up on the "office" floor. Many people up there had never seen an original typed document. How quickly the world changes these days.

 

 

After reading up a bit on this, I think I'm going to get my niece & nephew each a fountain pen and a Palmer Method book for their birthday this year....I'm sure they'll love them!

 

Pax,

John

Edited August 27, 2017 by JFB

[mitto]

As long as pens are there cursive will be there.

 

Hope history wouldn't be lost any sooner.

[JFB]

As long as pens are there cursive will be there.

 

Hope history wouldn't be lost any sooner.

 

Let's hope that's a very long time!

[pajaro]

I must be dense, but I don't see how this is even a question.

 

Ditto.

[Studio97]

 

Ditto.

Tradition like Case knives, Nessmuk, army wool blankets and cast iron skillets for me anyways. That should have sufficiently confused things. 😁

[ParkerDuofold]

Tradition like... Nessmuk... for me anyways. That should have sufficiently confused things. 😁

Hi Studio,

 

Well,... the Nessmuk did.

 

 

Btw, excellent idea; those hand-written resumes. I'm going to consider implementing that where I work.

 

Be well and enjoy life.

 

 

- Anthony

[ParkerDuofold]

Anthony, I agree, many of the basics. like long division have long fled my porous mind , but with lots of these "kids", I think, they never learned many of the basics.

 

Now I have to look up how to do long division again!

 

Pax,

John

 

Hi John,

 

You're right. A lot of today's youth were not even taught the basics... the Three R's as we middle-aged illiterates used to call them.

 

The intern and entry-level employee situation in this country can really be a nightmarish labyrinth of finding the pearls in a barrel of clams... fortunately, I have great managers,... who are expert pearl divers.

 

Be well.

 

 

- Anthony

 

P.S.: Don't sweat it... long division is just like riding a bicycle... just mind the trees and parked cars until you get your rhythm back.

 

P.S. #2: For all the nit-pickers: I know oysters are the ones that usually produce pearls, but clams (and mollusks) can do it, too; if they feel like it. Besides, who ever heard of a "barrel of oysters" or "as happy as an oyster"?

Edited August 27, 2017 by ParkerDuofold

[pajaro]

We live in an era of change. As has been the case throughout history, the fittest will survive.

[TSherbs]

 

 

From the few studies I've glanced over in the past few days (this thread piqued my interest) cursive,what the good sisters at my elementary school simply called writing, as opposed to printing, seems to bestow a few more benefits than printing.....

 

Pax,

John

I am a teacher and I have investigated many so-called "studies", for my profession. I can't find even a single one that demonstrates any efficacy in favor of connected writing over non-connected writing. In fact, they nearly universally are not "studies" at all that try to make any empirical distinction between different forms of handwriting. They do examine "handwriting," but this is always in comparison to typing (non-handwriting).

 

What "studies" are you referring too? I would like to read them and share with my colleagues, if they are legit.

[ParkerDuofold]

We live in an era of change. As has been the case throughout history, the fittest will survive.

Hi Pajaro,

 

Yes. Or to put it another way; the cream always rises to the top.

 

- Anthony

[aalmcc4]

Whenever this debate comes up, inevitably, someone mentions that younger folks will eventually be unable to read cursive. This really amazes me. Its not a different language for Pete's sake. Most of the letters are practically the same.

 

It's not that difficult to figure out. Granted, writing in cursive is different, but c'mon. Unable to read it?

 

I'm not buyin it kids!

 

Can anyone out there who has not learned cursive honestly say that they could not read a note taped to your refrigerator from Mom saying....

 

"Johnny, please pick up some milk from the store when you're done work". ???

 

 

[markh]

[JakobS]

 

 

This does bring up an observation I notice with those who have written cursive in my daily life ( the calligraphy forums in FPN being the exception). In vast majority of those people I know who continue to use cursive past the seventh grade (In the U.S., this was generally when cursive was no longer required in written assignments back when it was more significantly used) is that most of them have a horrible cursive hand, and it is indeed nothing more than scribbles. It's not even a matter of "is that an A?", but more of a collection of connected lines that look more like a symbol of an ocean wave, and nothing of an actual word made of letters. If we are to argue for the importance of handwriting as part of an elementary curriculum, perhaps it is more important to establish legibility, and the formation of coherent ideas in one's writing over the use of a single handwriting style. For, I think numerous teachers, professors, supervisors, and those who work closely with the written word would say that is the greatest deficit that current students are carrying with them, the ability to write properly at all no matter the medium.

[TSherbs]

 

 

This does bring up an observation I notice with those who have written cursive in my daily life ( the calligraphy forums in FPN being the exception). In vast majority of those people I know who continue to use cursive past the seventh grade (In the U.S., this was generally when cursive was no longer required in written assignments back when it was more significantly used) is that most of them have a horrible cursive hand, and it is indeed nothing more than scribbles. It's not even a matter of "is that an A?", but more of a collection of connected lines that look more like a symbol of an ocean wave, and nothing of an actual word made of letters. If we are to argue for the importance of handwriting as part of an elementary curriculum, perhaps it is more important to establish legibility, and the formation of coherent ideas in one's writing over the use of a single handwriting style. For, I think numerous teachers, professors, supervisors, and those who work closely with the written word would say that is the greatest deficit that current students are carrying with them, the ability to write properly at all no matter the medium.

 

Word.