Writing Slope - Wax Or Oil..? And Date (Roughly)..?

[Pendarion]

Just delivered today, a writing slope I got on eBay . (I'll try an attach images). I think this is one to leave alone, as I don't have the skills for restoration. But also - it's not half as bad as I thought it might be.

 

 

 

I will find a way of replacing the Sellotape with something a little more sympathetic - as I like the vivid blue velvet too much to kill it. And I'm hoping to eventually find a similar ink well to match the survivor. It has no key but from what I see online, I may get lucky with an old key from something else and if not... I don't really mind. It's only other major problem is the lack of mother of pearl on the key escutcheon.

 

My questions are... Marquetry on (I think) pine, as it's quite lightweight and doesn't look like oak. And it's been varnished. Varnish seems in good nick. So would I be right in thinking all I need to do is clean this with a good quality wax? I sometimes restore 100 year old and older sewing machines, so have some nice wood oil on hand I use without hesitation on sewing machine boxes and they come up like new, even the 1880s' one I did last year. But marquetry's different and not something I've dealt with. So wax - not oil - is that right?

 

Second question is: anyone give this a rough date? I read that velvet skivers rather than leather, may be a sign of one that's older. But is that right? The velvet appears to be embossed round the edges so I think it is original. The Greek key pattern round it is embossed on leather. And does the marquetry give us a clue, date-wise? I'm interested as I do 19thC living history and so we may be able to use this for that as well as me using it at home for what it was intended for in the first place! I think it's Victorian (as opposed to older or newer) - but can anyone stick it under a given decade?

 

 

[my63]

Hi Pendarion

I know a little bit about writing slopes, Yours is interesting for a few reasons.

Leather edging around the velvet writing surface I have seen lots with embossing to the velvet but I don't think I have seen one like yours.

After 1880 boxes became lighter moving away from mahogany construction to pine, this was also the time when brass and mother of pearl inlay was starting to be replaced by marketry. Mechanised knives were now being used to cut the veneer.

Your lock with three pins is from larger boxes around 20 inches so I would say your slope is after 1880.

If there are secret compartments they will be inside the box under the inkwells and pencil box the release is likely to be activated by lifting one of the thin dividers. Or there may be a small hole under an inkwell.

A picture of the inside would help to confirm this, the lack of secret compartments or a side drawer would push the date into the 1900 s.

Sorry for going on a bit.

Michael

[my63]

Sorry I forgot to answer your other questions it will be French polished rather than varnish so wax applied with 0000 wire wool would be the best finish.

The locks are quite simple affairs usually only a single lever I did a post in my writing slope dilemma thread I will try to find it for you. I may well have a key that you can adapt.

The purpose of the velvet passing over the joint is to hold them together and stop them falling out a nice wide piece of tape on the inside to the inside edge of the slope will work as a temporary fix.

I don't do inkwells so I cannot help there..

[MarcinEck]

wax of course

[Pendarion]

Hi Pendarion

I know a little bit about writing slopes, Yours is interesting for a few reasons.

Leather edging around the velvet writing surface I have seen lots with embossing to the velvet but I don't think I have seen one like yours.

After 1880 boxes became lighter moving away from mahogany construction to pine, this was also the time when brass and mother of pearl inlay was starting to be replaced by marketry. Mechanised knives were now being used to cut the veneer.

Your lock with three pins is from larger boxes around 20 inches so I would say your slope is after 1880.

If there are secret compartments they will be inside the box under the inkwells and pencil box the release is likely to be activated by lifting one of the thin dividers. Or there may be a small hole under an inkwell.

A picture of the inside would help to confirm this, the lack of secret compartments or a side drawer would push the date into the 1900 s.

Sorry for going on a bit.

Michael

Brilliant answer! Thanks so much! I have enjoyed reading your thread, btw!

 

Yes, it has two secret drawers, accessed by lifting the right hand side ink well divider. I only just found them this afternoon after seeing a YouTube video... Piece of vellum in one secret drawer with what looks like modern coloured inks and handwriting - will photo that. In my real life I spend a LOT of time in archives, looking at documents which is why I am fairly certain the writing I found is modern! Husband thinks it may have had a previous owner who did Living History. The drawers have lovely little handles. I will try and photo tomorrow if we get good light.

 

Yes, I did wonder about the leather-velvet combo, too. The Greek key pattern seems a bit of earlier neo classical. But I have had a quick look online and am seeing blue velvet across various dates... I even wondered if the velvet was later added, and a original brown leather skiver cut out, maybe... but I dunno - I think it's all original as it is so well done..? Size wise it is almost identical to a standard lap top and 15.5cm deep...

 

Not sure if that helps? It cost me £36 - so not a bad price, I think?

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pendarion

[Pendarion]

wax of course

Ah but there are so many!

[Pendarion]

Sorry I forgot to answer your other questions it will be French polished rather than varnish so wax applied with 0000 wire wool would be the best finish.

The locks are quite simple affairs usually only a single lever I did a post in my writing slope dilemma thread I will try to find it for you. I may well have a key that you can adapt.

The purpose of the velvet passing over the joint is to hold them together and stop them falling out a nice wide piece of tape on the inside to the inside edge of the slope will work as a temporary fix.

I don't do inkwells so I cannot help there..

Thanks for this, too. I will try and get some wax and wire wool tomorrow!

 

I'm a bit of a textile historian so it would be sacrilege for me to do anything to the velvet... but I am going to have to cover the damage from that Sellotape as even though it will lift off, it's going to have left a load of irreversible damage on the fabric! I can think of a way of reinforcing the join and covering that, though.

 

Tracking down the inkwell may take some time, but it's going to be fun to see if I can source one roughly the right shape and size. Probably a case of pouncing, on eBay!

 

If you have a key I can adapt, I'll be so grateful. I only have one key from that period and it comes from an 1880s' Singer sewing machine case! Kind of long shot that it would fit...

Edited August 4, 2017 by Pendarion

[my63]

It is a very good price.

I think I got a little mixed up side drawers were earlier secret compartments would bring it toward the beginning of the 1900 s.

I have seen slopes with the ebonised border frequently but I have not seen one with a leather edge like you describe. I don't think the velvet is a later addition it would be very difficult to cut the leather in place and then fit the velvet so neatly I have some experience working with old leather if it had been removed and replaced it would not look that good.

If the little handles are cream coloured they may be ivory or bone which again points to the turn of the century early ones tend to be ribbon.

I have been trying to think why there are gaps in the ebonised edging in the same place on each side maybe it was to hold some type of book support.

I have a slope from 1790 which has a piece of paper with a date of 1812 on it looks like an iron gall type of ink it is a rusty brown colour. There are pictures of the document in that thread too.

[my63]

I use fiddes wax for my writing slopes if you want to replace the missing mother of pearl here is a link to a supplier.

 

https://www.rodnaylor.com/

[Pendarion]

Thanks, my63. This is so helpful.

 

I found a really similar looking one on YouTube - not only is the secret drawer mechanism the same but many of the features (including the leather surrounding the velvet) seem to be on this one, too. This is dated "1890s" but am not sure how firm that is? It has the same indents mine has, and those little brass catches at one end, and inside - apart from the fact that has ribbon pulls and mine has little handles (and either of those could be a later 'improvement' by a subsequent owner?) - it looks the same. Mine looks to be polished even on the inside (I thought it might be bare wood) - the same as the one in the YouTube video. I think that one has two 'bits' (sorry not technical!) on the lock mechanism and mine has three? But otherwise they could be made by the same people...

 

Thinking some more about it... The only thing I know anything about, when it comes to writing slopes - is my incidental knowledge of textiles. The skiver is probably velvet made from silk, although cheaper alternatives were available by the later 19thC and the only way I could know for sure is a burn test...

 

But... mulling this over... I have realised that a rough clue to date on any of these (assuming the skivers are original) would be the fabrics. Both skiver and the baize underneath - if that is also original. And the clue there being the dyes, not so much the fabrics themselves. If something appears to be aniline (chemical) dyed it must postdate the early 1860s.

 

And I could be wrong, but I think the blue on my slope is aniline. There are complications. The colour is faded. Also, I could replicate natural dyes with synthetic but not always vice versa. The only regular sources of blue pre 1860s were woad and indigo. Which are chemically identical, or so close as to make little difference to the colour. And just looking at it in the daylight - I don't think that is a natural dye, that blue.

 

So it has to be post early 1860s. The baize I will need to look at more closely as the warp's not what I'd initially suspect but typical of the undersides of writing slopes I can see online... The textile historian in me says to leave it well alone but I wanted to use this, every day, so I think I may well record it then replace, given time...

 

Hainsworths' mill in Leeds still make baize to this day. (Although higher end than this baize on my slope would have looked, even when new!) But they closed down their mill shop, so it's hard to get a bargain any more.

 

It's interesting to apply my textile knowledge to a whole new area!

 

Upshot is - I agree with My63 and think my slope is later end of century.

 

Am also curious whether the shapes of the wells changed with fashion, or whether they're just not a clue at all!

 

https://youtu.be/UVh6iSgPcHs

[my63]

These boxes were the high end laptops of their day there was nothing cheap about them.

The slope in the video looks very much like a solid mahogany slope with a burr walnut veneer on the outside. It did answer my question about the gaps in the edging they are to allow the writing panels to open and lie flat over the hinges this may well have been parculiar to one maker. As maybe the embossed leather around the edges of the skiver.

If the slope in the video has metal edges then I think it s an earlier slope but possibly by the same maker as yours.

It is always worth checking for a makers mark I have seen them on the bottom of the secret drawers.

I would like to see a picture of the inside if you can.

Sorry I can't help with the inkwells

[Pendarion]

These boxes were the high end laptops of their day there was nothing cheap about them.

The slope in the video looks very much like a solid mahogany slope with a burr walnut veneer on the outside. It did answer my question about the gaps in the edging they are to allow the writing panels to open and lie flat over the hinges this may well have been parculiar to one maker. As maybe the embossed leather around the edges of the skiver.

If the slope in the video has metal edges then I think it s an earlier slope but possibly by the same maker as yours.

It is always worth checking for a makers mark I have seen them on the bottom of the secret drawers.

I would like to see a picture of the inside if you can.

Sorry I can't help with the inkwells

Son was out with his iPhone today but if I catch him in the right mood, will get him to photo the inside tomorrow. (And look under the drawers!)

[Anne-Sophie]

 

It is an exquisite piece, it could not have found a better owner, able to appreciate its true beauty.

 

Textile historians are so valuable for keeping some of the most difficult objects in the best condition possible, it is so very personal and poignant to see a garment worn by an historical figure, or decorating fabrics needed special care that can only be provided if their true identity is found.

 

Thank you for sharing!

[Pendarion]

Thanks, Anne-Sophie. I got it from eBay but it came from the city where I was born and 5 generations of my dad's family,so you never know - might have belonged to us in the past!

 

I'll try and attach the pictures we took of the secret drawers... The little handles seem to be amber. I've seen similar on the drawers in hand-cranked sewing machines. The drawers are unpolished. Also found (and forgot to photo - doh!) a tiny piece of paper that had slipped under the ink well division, which had a 4 digit number printed on it in a very late 19thC looking font, in red (could be a stamp). Wondering if it was a manufacturer's number?

 

No identifying marks under or on the drawers, sadly.

[my63]

Hi Pendarion

The reason the little knobs have a bit of colour is because the inside has been stained mahogany there are a few different shades inside. I am pretty confident in the dates we discussed earlier.

If you are able to remove the lock we can start looking for a key I have one or two to choose from. Don't worry if you can't I have some slopes with similar locks in storage I think if I make a key for one of them it should fit.

Michael

[Pendarion]

Hi Pendarion

The reason the little knobs have a bit of colour is because the inside has been stained mahogany there are a few different shades inside. I am pretty confident in the dates we discussed earlier.

If you are able to remove the lock we can start looking for a key I have one or two to choose from. Don't worry if you can't I have some slopes with similar locks in storage I think if I make a key for one of them it should fit.

Michael

Thanks my63. That is so kind of you!

 

I just managed to get this shot of the piece of paper (right) we found under the divider, and the bizarre piece of vellum with modern writing/inks. Who knows? Maybe this belonged to a forum member! (Or a living history person?)

[my63]

That is quite interesting looks like a recipe for trouble three of them will give you rocket fuel and another three will give you black powder.

 

Here is the document I found inside one of my writing slopes

 

IMG_4791 by my0771, on Flickr

 

IMG_4786 by my0771, on Flickr

 

This is the drawer it was found in when I bought the slope the compartment had been jammed and the hole to activate the release had been hidden.

[Pendarion]

My63, have you traced any of the people involved? I have Ancestry.com., and if you need a look up I'd be happy to do it. Although that seems to pre-date 1837 when birth, marriage & death registrations began, there may be someone on that I could trace for you...?

[my63]

I have tried without success at first I contacted the seller to see if it was a family piece but it was not, he had no idea of its history. I did try to look for the lady online but drew a blank.

The release pin was well hidden and someone had tried to force it open and jammed it. I spent a happy hour sorting it out.

[Pendarion]

Well, I think I've located where the leases originate.

 

I can do a bit more research for you, but it appears to be properties in the East London docks area, (Wapping) at Shadwell, around New Gravel Lane/Elbow Lane. See that "Wap. Wl" - I think that's an abbreviation for "Wapping Wall" (a street). (The Farbridges appear in the parish records for the 1770s. George Farbridge is a "Biskit maker" at Wapping Wall!)

 

Burford Camper appears to have been a well known magistrate and local businessman on the Sth Side of Elbow Lane, Shadwell, St Paul's, Middlesex, in the 1770s.

 

I can find Farbridges in Shadwell, Middlesex. And also more than one generation of Dowdings appear to have been coopers at Shadwell. (Charles Dowding, cooper, became bankrupt in 1825). According to this there were Dowdings in Shadwell in the 1770s:

 

https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=1xk2AQAAMAAJ&pg=PA565&lpg=PA565&dq=dowding+and+shadwell&source=bl&ots=EnfuK71-Nr&sig=8eO9ENwooY8IqDRs2ceS8t02NU0&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjC24m41cPVAhWIK8AKHXnHCKUQ6AEIMjAC#v=onepage&q=dowding%20and%20shadwell&f=false

 

And here:

 

http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/C477501

 

One mystery - Burford Camper died in 1778. (His will is digitised on Ancestry.com). He left a considerable property and a couple of ships in the docks, to his wife Mary Camper and daughter, Sarah Basildon.

 

No mention of a son let alone one with his name. Although I did find a much younger Burford Camper being hung for highway robbery in 1775... Mention of him being a 'dutiful nephew to his uncle' and a good son to his mother, make me suspect he might well be our Burford's nephew... So there are no more Burford Campers post 1778... But he may well have leased from Maria Hatherell, in the 1770s and these leases were still running when she wrote the list of properties.

 

https://www.oldbaileyonline.org/browse.jsp?id=t17751206-6&div=t17751206-6

 

 

 

These may be long leases and the document date to the late 18thC, in other words. I could find no trace of Maria Hatherell in the national archives where some wills are indexed - maybe if this was part of her inventory for bequests of property she owned and leased out, then this document was never found! (And not superceded by a later one, I mean).

 

https://www.londonlives.org/search.jsp?form=persNames&_persNames_surname=Camper&match_sur=exact&_persNames_given=Burford&match_giv=exact&_persNames_div0Type=SM_PSfile&fromMonth=&fromYear=&toMonth=&toYear=&submit.x=53&submit.y=13

 

Despite Burford's unusual name I'd be a bit doubtful but the fact I can find other names from the inventory - including Dowdings in the context of being a cooper's - makes it look likely this is indeed Shadwell, in London. "Wap Wl" = Wapping Wall backs it up.

 

Think I owe you that for all the brilliant help and info you have given me here!

Edited August 6, 2017 by Pendarion