Pen Keeps Writing With A Different Ink Colour Despite Ink Change...

[hsianloon]

Okay a bit weird but I'm using a Sheaffer PFM. I absent mindedly filled it withsome Yama Budo about 4 months ago, used maybe 70% of it and didn't empty it as I was moving. On doing some monthly maintenance, I picked it up and cleaned out the ink as I thought I'd try something else.

 

I flushed it till the water was clear, and filled it with some De Atrementis Blue ink. Saw a good amount of ink go in and out the pen as I filled it.

 

But I'm writing 3 pages now and it's still....Yama Budo.

 

It's a bit odd, I'm just wondering if I managed to damage the Snorkel system or something...not that I noted when emptying and filling it.

 

Ideas ?

[LizEF]

(I'm obsessive about wanting my pens to dry out after cleaning before I put the cap on.)

 

So, over the weekend I finally finished the fill on my London Fog, and cleaned it out until the water both looked clear in the barrel and came out clear when flushed. Then I pulled the plunger out and set it in a safe place to air out (this one will never completely dry out in there, but as I mentioned, I'm a bit obsessive).

 

Two days later, it looks mostly dry so I depress the plunger and what do I see? A spot of quite blue water! Where did that come from!? I flushed it again and got a shocking amount of blue coming out, despite it having come out clear two days earlier (when I did numerous fill, shake, flush cycles). So I repeated my fill, shake, flush cycle some more, pulled the plunger and it's once again sitting in a safe place to air out. I'm curious whether the evaporation process somehow condenses more color out of the thing!

 

In other words, perhaps the Yama Budo was clinging in places where it needed a good soak, or steam bath, before it would let go. Perhaps the new ink is doing well at dissolving the dried / thickened Yama Budo. And, I'd expect Yama Budo to overpower all but the strongest blue (depending on the volume of each).

 

Someone else will have to make Snorkel-specific comments, sorry.

[ParkerDuofold]

Hello Hsianloon,

 

LizEF is correct.

 

That pen probably needs to soak for a day or two before you flush it... and it will probably need more than one soak and flush cycle... perhaps two or three. Yama Budo is a STRONG color to start with.

 

I've flushed pens with bulb syringes until the water ran clear and then I'd put the section in my USC and I'd still get tinted water. Those fins can trap A LOT of ink! And since your pen sat for months, you're probably also dealing with some evaporation which condensed and intensified the ink.

 

Soak and flush... Soak and flush... Soak and flush.... .

 

And after the final soak and flush, give it a good 48 hours to completely dry out.

 

- Anthony

Edited May 30, 2017 by ParkerDuofold

[hsianloon]

Thats what I thought that YB is a pretty intense ink, but 3 pages... Not even a tinge of blue. Will soaking a snorkel work the same way as nib sections with cc's ?

[ParkerDuofold]

Thats what I thought that YB is a pretty intense ink, but 3 pages... Not even a tinge of blue. Will soaking a snorkel work the same way as nib sections with cc's ?

Hi Hsianloon,

 

Well, I don't own a Snorkel, but with the TD's, I just filled them with water, (the same as you'd fill them with ink), and let them lay flat on their sides with the cap on.... and let them soak. (You could also do the same thing, but put it nib down in a mug, so the water will pool around the feed and really saturate it).

 

- Anthony

Edited May 30, 2017 by ParkerDuofold

[chromantic]

Yama-budo is so hard to flush (at least, that was my experience) that I vowed to never put it in another FP. I only use it in a little Herbin rollerball, which not only results in a brighter color but also insures my bottle will last me several lifetimes.

 

I had the same problem when trying to move Grapefruit to a P45 that had Diamine Ruby in it. I flushed and flushed and soaked and flushed until I thought I was good to go but, no, the color that came out was not Grapefruit. This is also why I moved away from using the P45s.

[Bo Bo Olson]

I ran into that, when I thought I'd cleaned the pen, even let the nib and feed sit in a cup with a paper towel. That had worked "99%"..........but I think I got a bit lazy.

The light ink came out darker than it was....actually I liked the 'new' color more.

[callous4567]

Soak that pen some more and keep rinsing it out, that Ink is holed up in there harder than a dirt farmer farming his dirt is holed up in his dirt farm.

[sandy101]

If the pen is still writing, just stick with it and eventually the ink will run out.

 

It's happened with a few of my pens - the feed seems to hold an incredible amount of ink.

 

If the pen is still writing, these days I just stick with it and give it a better clea at the next refill.

[hsianloon]

Thanks for the replies everyone. Used up all the ink after a few pages and it's still YB, with a tinge darker, which I guess is the blue edging its way in.

 

Was just worried I might have had done something to the snorkel mechanism. But I guess the dried up YB is just so thick now that it'll take awhile to wash off the feed completely !

[ac12]

This is a very common situation.

 

When I am cleaning the pen to store or change inks, I will clean in 2 sometimes 3 steps

1 - Flush clean the pen, this is the easy part

2 - SOAK the section, nib down. This gets the ink that is NOT in the flush path, like the ink in the fins of the feed, and in other nooks and crannies in the section.

3 - Soak the sac. Fill the pen with water and lay it flat. This is to dissolve the ink that might be sticking to the inside of the sac.

 

For #2 and 3, I empty the pen then spin dry it with a salad spinner. If the tissue has ink on it, back into soaking it goes.

 

Some inks will clean quickly, others take a LONG time.

 

And while an UltraSonic Cleanner will help a lot, it will NOT make it a FAST clean. The USC will work on the hardened/dried ink, but not on the liquid ink. For liquid ink, you need to soak.

 

Dried RED and PURPLE ink have been the longest to clean out, 3 weeks for 2 different Parker 51s.

[Mauricio]

Two more options for you to consider to do a more invasive flush in your pen with dried ink inside:

 

(1) Put a drop of Dawn soap in a cup of water. Fill your pen with this soapy water solution. Cap the pen and leave it standing up with the nib pointing down overnight. Next day, flush it with water. The Dawn soap will penetrate and break the remnants of that Yama Budo ink inside your pen as much as possible. Do not be surprised if you have to flush it several times until you get clear water coming out of the pen. If needed, repeat this entire operation as many times for several days as needed.

 

(2) Purchase Rapidoeze and flush your pen with this cleaning solution.

 

As others have stated above, any ink with red dye will be harder to fully flush. And once that ink dries inside the pen you are up to a major chore to fully flush that dried ink out of any fountain pen

[ac12]

You mentioned something critical, and it did not click till now . . . SNORKEL.

When you flush a Sheaffer Snorkel, the water goes in and out the snorkel. Very little if any comes out the feed/nib.

So all your flushing is doing is cleaning the snorkel. The feed is still full of the old ink, which is why you saw the old ink.

You have to soak the nib/feed in water to get the ink in the feed out of the pen.

Edited June 3, 2017 by ac12

[inkstainedruth]

You mentioned something critical, and it did not click till now . . . SNORKEL.

When you flush a Sheaffer Snorkel, the water goes in and out the snorkel. Very little if any comes out the feed/nib.

So all your flushing is doing is cleaning the snorkel. The feed is still full of the old ink, which is why you saw the old ink.

You have to soak the nib/feed in water to get the ink in the feed out of the pen.

 

True. People forget that while the idea behind *fllling* Snorkels is to keep the nib clean, you're going to still be getting ink flowing down through the feed while using the pen. So what ac12 said. How do I know? I have vintage Skrip Peacock in a Snorkel at the moment....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[ErrantSmudge]

Two more options for you to consider to do a more invasive flush in your pen with dried ink inside:

 

(1) Put a drop of Dawn soap in a cup of water. Fill your pen with this soapy water solution. Cap the pen and leave it standing up with the nib pointing down overnight. Next day, flush it with water. The Dawn soap will penetrate and break the remnants of that Yama Budo ink inside your pen as much as possible. Do not be surprised if you have to flush it several times until you get clear water coming out of the pen. If needed, repeat this entire operation as many times for several days as needed.

 

(2) Purchase Rapidoeze and flush your pen with this cleaning solution.

 

As others have stated above, any ink with red dye will be harder to fully flush. And once that ink dries inside the pen you are up to a major chore to fully flush that dried ink out of any fountain pen

 

 

Are these methods safe to use with vintage pens that use a sac for an ink reservoir? Just about all of my vintage pens are lever fillers, and I'm concerned about residual soap/surfactant in the pen if I use that to speed up the cleaning process. After all, if ink can stay behind so can the soap.

 

Also, I have Goulet's pen flush, which has both surfactant plus ammonia. Is that another product that's safe to use on a vintage pen? I asked Goulet, and they said the cleaner is intended for modern pens and they couldn't guarantee its safety with vintage.

 

So far I've been very conservative with my lever fillers, only using water to flush them. But it is a chore.

Edited June 3, 2017 by ErrantSmudge

[Mauricio]

 

 

Are these methods safe to use with vintage pens that use a sac for an ink reservoir? Just about all of my vintage pens are lever fillers, and I'm concerned about residual soap/surfactant in the pen if I use that to speed up the cleaning process. After all, if ink can stay behind so can the soap.

 

Also, I have Goulet's pen flush, which has both surfactant plus ammonia. Is that another product that's safe to use on a vintage pen? I asked Goulet, and they said the cleaner is intended for modern pens and they couldn't guarantee its safety with vintage.

 

So far I've been very conservative with my lever fillers, only using water to flush them. But it is a chore.

 

The methods I recommended are good for any fountain pen, but as stated in my previous post, only when extreme flushing is needed. I do not recommend to do this to every fountain pen all the time that pen needs to be flushed. No soapy residual should be left inside those pens are you are going to properly flush the soapy solution during the process. The reason some stubborn ink residue is left behind is because folks leave pens inked and unused for long periods of time (which is very bad pen hygiene), as the OP stated.

 

Ideally, pens are not to be left inked and unused, and the more drastic methods I mentioned are never needed. Also ideally, you are not using inks that have too much dye and are very high maintenance so you do not have to resort to these more extreme cleaning measures.

 

If a manufacturer/retailer cannot fully explain and stand behind the product they sell I would never buy anything from them. It means they do not know what they are selling. That is a huge red flag. Some retailers are good at making videos, blogs, and making all sorts of recommendations for everything they sell, but their knowledge of the subject matter lacks depth. I hope you are wise whom you are purchasing your fountain pen goodies from!

[ErrantSmudge]

If a manufacturer/retailer cannot fully explain and stand behind the product they sell I would never buy anything from them. It means they do not know what they are selling.

 

 

To be absolutely clear. Goulet Pens doesn't claim their product is for vintage pens, anywhere on the package or in their promotional material. I asked them directly, they said they don't guarantee it is safe for vintage pens - which is a perfectly reasonable response. They also told me they specialize in modern pens and referred me to other vendors which specialize in vintage, as well as this forum, for further assistance.

 

I don't believe your conclusion is warranted - especially considering, as a pen vendor, you are a competitor to Goulet Pens.

Edited June 3, 2017 by ErrantSmudge

[Mauricio]

 

 

To be absolutely clear. Goulet Pens doesn't claim their product is for vintage pens, anywhere on the package or in their promotional material. I asked them directly, they said they don't guarantee it is safe for vintage pens - which is a perfectly reasonable response. I don't believe your conclusion is warranted.

 

 

The rules of this forum do not allow me to clearly elaborate on your specific questions or to give names. As such, I will speak in general terms. There is an online retailer who has become "the QVC" of fountain pens, seriously promoting everything they sell, and making all sorts of hyped claims, despite their lack of knowledge depth in many subjects. This particular online retailer stole copyrighted information from my website and made a video of my copyrighted information, without my permission and without giving credit to me as the source of that information ... and all of this after the owner or that online retailer company does not a squat about the information he made the video with. Enough said!

 

If you are looking for a safe flushing solution for vintage fountain pens use Rapidoeze. That's what I use in my vintage pens and it works really well.

Edited June 3, 2017 by Mauricio

[ErrantSmudge]

 

The rules of this forum do not allow me to clearly elaborate on your specific questions or to give names. As such, I will speak in general terms. [...] Enough said!

 

If you are looking for a safe flushing solution for vintage fountain pens use Rapidoeze. That's what I use in my vintage pens and it works really well.

 

Thank you very much for the information on safe ways to clean vintage pens. I truly appreciate it. As for the other topics in your article, I agree - enough said.

[welch]

You mentioned something critical, and it did not click till now . . . SNORKEL.

When you flush a Sheaffer Snorkel, the water goes in and out the snorkel. Very little if any comes out the feed/nib.

So all your flushing is doing is cleaning the snorkel. The feed is still full of the old ink, which is why you saw the old ink.

You have to soak the nib/feed in water to get the ink in the feed out of the pen.

 

+1.

 

The "secret" is not Yama buda but the snorkel mechanism used in the PFM. The filling system bypasses the nib and feed.