Paper Primer - What Goes With What

[Chouffleur]

I have a Waterman Crusader (open nib) that just reentered my rotation after the end of Parker Month (TM?). The nib is reasonably fine and the pen sits comfortably in the hand/fingers. I was thinking of rotating it back out because it felt toothy and uncomfortable on Moleskine paper (classic Notebook - Pocket) in ruled, graph, or dotted - whichever one I have open at present. All this using Aurora Blue Black ink.

 

Then I happened to try it on a pad of undistinguished ruled paper and suddenly it felt, and wrote, great.

 

So I thought I'd solicit a few rules of thumb on which nibs are likeliest to play well with which inks on specific paper types.

 

I write on three kinds of paper: Moleskine, index cards, and (bleep) ( a category that for some of you encompasses Moleskine).

 

Right now I prefer medium and broad nibs with ink in saturated colors for the Moleskine.

 

I prefer Pilot G2 1.0 in any reasonably dark color on index cards. This is because index cards are largely used in the kitchen and gel pen is easier to read when/after wet.

 

I now prefer fine nibs and whatever Aurora Blue Black is on (bleep) paper.

 

I understand that every combination is different and every snowflake is unique (or nearly so) so I'm not expecting anything hard and fast here. I just wondered what the first nib/ink combination you would try on each paper category would be.

 

Thanks

[ac12]

In general, the finer the nib the more sensitive it will be to the texture of the surface of the paper.

I run my finger on the paper and get a sense for how smooth it is, or is not. That tells me if my XF or F nib won't like the paper. Or more that I won't like the feel of the vibrations coming up the pen of an EF nib on less than smooth paper.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Moleskine is ball point paper.....some folks insist on using it in the notebook that is supposedly set up better than others. Super skinny nibs and very fast drying ink is necessary to use Moleskine.

 

Being once very 'noobie' ignorant, when I started back into fountain pens some seven or so years ago, I was going to run out and get some Moleskine.....in it was the only paper name I knew. Luckily, I came here and found that to be a bad idea.

 

I know Black and Red (from it's Notebook) is Oxford Optic 90g paper. I like that paper it is affordable, in a spiral notebook I have. Clairefontaine Veloute 90g is the slightest hair better, in one ink of many wrote a bit better than the Oxford. (Just one of 20-30 inks.)

 

If I was 'up north in Frankfurt' I'd use Oxford Optic with no thought of problem but where I'm at Clairefontaine Veloute is more common. Neither is the slick Clairefontaine Triumphe.

I'd suggest trying a Black and Red Notebook.

Being retired now, I don't do notebooks.

[dcwaites]

It is hard to give you guidelines because paper can be so variable.

 

The big problem with Moleskines is that there is no consistency to their paper. One notebook can have quite fine paper, and the next will be atrocious.

Index cards tend to be more consistent but you can't predict which ones will work until you try them. I have had some which worked perfectly with FPs and their ink, and others which just feathered so badly they were unusable.

 

Another factor is the degree of baby bottom you have on the nib in your pen. Where the dimensions in the baby bottom match the degree of roughness on the paper, the nib will catch on the paper fibres, and feel rough. Finer or coarser paper, or a nib with smaller or larger baby bottom will be quite ok, and write smoothly.

[sidthecat]

Moleskine paper is a disappointment for a fountain pen user - I think all those he-man journalists who used them in the Twenties made their notes in pencil. Try Rhodia or Clairefontaine.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Moleskine is in no way connected with the past of fountain pen writers......stole the name and history.

I was a bit upset with that.

 

Brunner only makes one good paper, M&K, which use to be a grand '50's name paper. It is good now, there are two pads and one loose leaf folder. They are worth ordering from Germany. In German post is dirt cheap compared to US worth having. One is 95G (typing paper so really only one sided for best....seemed ok on the back.) the other two are not listed but are good shading paper.

Otherwise never buy any Brunner papers out side of M&K...

 

Do take a look at what four papers Sandy1 uses in her ink reviews. She uses them because they are good US papers and easily enough obtainable.

 

Southworth makes adequate paper, if it wasn't for that also....Ink Jet on it I'd be happy, but because of the Ink Jet also, know some sort of compromise has been made. Laser only paper is normally the better fountain pen paper.

But that seems hard to find in everyone wants one size fits all, f rom Omar the Tentmaker

[Sandy1]

Hi,

Let’s dance…

Copy / Print paper:

• The bog standard for most offices’ Black&White bumph.
• Often a laser or multi-purpose paper, in weights from 20 - 24lb, though I’ve seen 16lb.
• Often has a bit of tooth.
• Risk exposure to line-width gain (spread) and bleed- show-through.
• Often loaded with optical brighteners* so can make for some odd looks; and make ink depictions generated from a consumer-grade scanner or camera rather inaccurate.
• Be wary of those papers which are not acid free and/or without alkaline pH buffer.
  • Kindly see https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/265201-inky-t-o-d-have-you-ever-had-an-ink-fade/?p=3195217 onward...
• Papers which have more than a whisper of recycled content will promote plump lines.
• That said, it is most certainly possible to get a more than adequate ‘utility’ paper that is FP friendly - I use HP 90gsm laser copy/print. The P&PP Forum has many too many suggestions.
• My Ink Reviews include a heading ‘Is high-end paper worth it?’, and more often than expected, the answer is that a carefully chosen laser C/P paper does very well indeed.

Personal Pen Picks:

• Western F & M, though other widths, such as Asian EF are OK for bits of writing, such as marginalia, charting and forms work.

Manner of Writing:

• A light hand: my pens are wands not chisels.

Personal Ink Picks:

• Rather dark (low Value) and a tad dry, so even when laying down a small amount of ink, the line is dark enough to be easily read.
• Inks with high dye-load might benefit from dilution to about 80% concentration.

Hard-Surface Coated ‘fine writing’ paper:

• Too many to choose from.
• I use Rhodia 80gsm as a norm.
• Weights vary considerably: From the Tomoe River 52gsm to the 90gsm of Rhodia ‘R’.
• Polished, smooth uniform surface, which can be too ‘slick’ for some, especially with a high lubricity ink. (Consider pounce such as gum sandarac or talc.)
• Will not hide a nib’s flaws, especially those with 'baby bottom'.
• Promotes shading.
• Suppresses bleed- show-through.
• Base tints from cool to cozy White.
• Typically without optical brightening agents.
• Acid free or pH balanced.

Personal Pen Picks:

• Any and all.
• Favours shaped nibs.

Personal Ink Picks:

• Most.
• I do not favour the cellulose-reactive inks or aniline dye inks that are too too saturated - both types 'run on rails', so do not benefit from the opportunity of the coated surface.
• Due to the coating, dry times may extend to ‘who knows when’.

Manner of writing:

• Go ahead - flex your flexi nibs.

The Fuzzies:

• Often created to give a sense of luxury and substance.
• They seen to come in two flavours: modest cost ‘letterhead’ papers bound for the laser/inkjet printer; and the full-on cotton rag papers usually reserved for letterpress work, such as invitations.
• All are rather heavy.

Personal Pen Picks:

• Western M - BB mono-line, unless one is a calligrapher who can avoid the edge of an Italic nib catching on the paper.

Personal Ink Picks:

• Iron-Gall and nano, which will keep the line quality high, and reduce likelihood of bleed- show-through.

Textured and Highly Calendered*:

• Rewarding, tricky to handle and chosen on purpose. (Like my beaux.)
• Can vary from the modest Wove surface to a pronounced Laid surface.*
• Typically found in the heavier weights.
• Base tints can vary tremendously. e.g. G Lalo Verge de France.

Personal Pen Picks:

• Sensible people will choose at least a Western M, but when I want a ’sketchy’ look, (emulating dry brush watercolour), I’ll use a narrow [Waverley] nib.

Personal Ink Picks:

• Wet and easily absorbed.
• Colour depends on paper’s base tint.

​Manner of Writing:

• Perhaps a bit slower than usual, but with the right ink, the temptation to write with a heavy hand should be dismissed.
• The nib must be kept running on the sweet spot.

After that, I must say that some of the best sources for a wide variety of papers are your local small job offset / letterpress printers: IMHO no-one knows more about ink and papers, and how they dance together, than those in the printing trade.

__ __

As mentioned by Member Bo Bo Olson, my Ink Reviews include a variety of pen+paper combos, so it might be worth your while to choose one with an ink you are familiar with to see what’s what with other pen+paper combos. Please be aware that I write with a rather expansive brisk light hand, so if you write with a compact more deliberate hand, your results will vary. Some IRs include a Personal Pen+Paper Pick.

Bye,

S1

__ __

* Wiki :

Optical brighteners : http://www.colorwiki.com/wiki/Optical_Brighteners_in_Paper

Calendered paper : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calender

Wove paper : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wove_paper

Laid paper : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laid_paper

RE: Nibs, paper texture, ink absorbency and lubricity, see https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/221159-pilot-iroshizuku-tsuki-yo/?p=2424828

Edited May 28, 2017 by Sandy1

[Bo Bo Olson]

Typical Sandy1............

Enough to think about for everyone,

 

A few years ago and for only two years Aldi a discount supermarket here in Germany had fountain pen friendly papers. Laid, Hammered, Linen (120g) effect and marbled ( ). The rest were 90g. All shade. I was able to get four of the basics of paper all in one place and at affordable prices.

Unfortunately they not do that beginning of school sale of that paper the third year. I had plans to buy a lot and ship it around the world to some of the very nice folks here.

(My stash is my stash ....go make your own stash.)

 

I spent E36+E4 in postage, for some heavy almost perfect Gmund paper. I decided at the last second I'd take the almost perfect heavy 170g paper, in I like the feel. The same paper 'Beige Beige', (comes in Beige or Creme) in 120g is perfect. Not a hint of a woolly line.

I had some 8-10 sample sheets, that I kept trying a line of ink on them, until they became eliminated. I use a Honking Big 1" thick by 3"x4" wide magnifying glass to check inks with,

for feathering, or a woolly line. (A 10X loupe is way too much, there would be no perfect paper then.)

 

When ordering samples do not order any Art Paper samples, they are a different kettle of fish.

...not for fountain pens.

I have to do ink samples on my Zander assortment. I need to take time and write Sholenhammer

for it's fountain pen friendly papers, they sent me their Art Papers last time. I wasn't exact. With Gmund

I was. I paid for the extra sample sheets........E0.85 which is more expensive than sheet price when

buying a box. 100 sheets of the 170g paper cost me E36 +4.

 

When I last went to the States on business some 6-7 years ago, I stocked up with boxes of

Southworth papers. (I was so happy to see real paper....I didn't look hard, in it's laser and Ink Jet,

so there has been a compromise made. It is good paper....I just don't know if it's 'better' because of

Ink Jet part.) Laser is what one wants....and re-read what Sandy just wrote.

There are a number of US paper makers that still make a fine fountain pen

paper. Craine no longer does.

 

Once a year you deserve the best paper you can afford (instead of that empty single malt bottle.)

. Two or three times a year a good to better paper.

Soon you will have a very nice selection of papers. I always suggest some good to better paper,

every three bottles of ink. Then you won't have to play catch up.

[Bo Bo Olson]

""The third type of finish is called a plater finish, and whereas the first two types of finish are accomplished by the calender stack itself, a plater finish is obtained by placing cut sheets of paper between zinc or copper plates that are stacked together, then put under pressure and heating. A special finish such as a linen finish would be achieved by placing a piece of linen between the plate and the sheet of paper, or else an embossed steel roll might be used."""""Wiki

 

I followed Sandy's link to fading of ink, from there to Wiki and paper. One can drink 'Old Smuggler' aged 3 years scotch, or 21 year old Royal Salute. Paper makes the ink dance. Sandy gives us numbers to write down and put in our wallet so if we ever run into paper, we can check to see if it's worth buying.

 

Much of what I print out, basic 80g printer paper is ok. 90g is nice if will be scribbling on it. But I am very glad I did get some better papers, even if all I do is scribble on it. I can look at it and a good ink and .

I've had fine posters send me paper. I've done that too......but not enough. If one buys a better ink, one should buy good to better paper, and every year at least one 'best' paper.

Like our journey with pens...buying better ones when one knows enough to enjoy them, the same with paper.

I once did a 17 pen, 49 paper survey of ESSR ink, thanks to papers sent to me, and a way back when, few I'd saved as too good for an old Jukie daisywheel printer....I'd never owned a dot matrix printer; nor an inkjet. I must have 25 papers now....some only a few sheets. And I consider myself a 'paper noobie'.

 

Reference to the Wiki quote......

I have some 120 g linen effect which would be the same I think. Now I 'know' what it is....not that I've ever had real linen paper.

One is that Aldi paper that was sold for only two start of school years. I bought laid, hammered, marble and the linen effect all at once, and suddenly had a basis of paper to start from.

Another is 100% cotton Linen Resume paper 32 pounds from Southworth.....in almond.

 

Real good paper will make fountain pens a lot more fun.

[Sandy1]

Typical Sandy1...........

 

Massive Snip

 

Once a year you deserve the best paper you can afford (instead of that empty single malt bottle.)

. Two or three times a year a good to better paper.

Soon you will have a very nice selection of papers. I always suggest some good to better paper,

every three bottles of ink. Then you won't have to play catch up.

 

 

 

Hi,

As ever I hope to enable enjoyment and avoid disappointment.

I condensed my experience and preferences into mere four types of paper, intended to serve as a compass rose, which is a navigational aid, rather than specifying a point-by-point GPS course to steer.

I purposely avoided bound paper, in part because I rarely use it, and that what's in-between the covers seems to be quite variable - rather like a sausage: if it tastes good, don't ask what's in it; if it tastes bad, dispose of it discretely in a napkin.

Winds and tides and currents may throw us off-course, for better or worse. (It seems my compass is bedevilled by curiosity.) Those are particularly common when working with the textured and highly calendered papers; and those intended for non-FP inks and other means of ink application, such as litho, serigraphy, letterpress, watercolour and so on. And papers not intended for accepting ink, such as featherweight acid-free tissue paper.

I am equally comfortable writing on A0 CAD printer paper as a coated postcard as a cold pressed sheet of Arches. I do not accept the tyranny of the page.

It is important to gain understanding through experience of the media with which we work to achieve the desired results.

Then again, let’s just write: Pelikan 4001 BlBk from a Parker 51+M on 90g C/P - Bob’s your uncle!

Bye,

S1

Edited May 31, 2017 by Sandy1

[dcwaites]

 

 

 

Hi,

As ever I hope to enable enjoyment and avoid disappointment.

I condensed my experience and preferences into mere four types of paper, intended to serve as a compass rose, which is a navigational aid, rather than specifying a point-by-point GPS course to steer.

I purposely avoided bound paper, in part because I rarely use it, and that what's in-between the covers seems to be quite variable.

Winds and tides and currents may throw us off-course, for better or worse. (It seems my compass is bedevilled by curiosity.) Those are particularly common when working with the textured and highly calendered papers; and those intended for non-FP inks and other means of ink application, such as litho, serigraphy, letterpress, watercolour and so on. And papers not intended for accepting ink, such as featherweight acid-free tissue paper.

I am equally comfortable writing on A0 CAD printer paper as a coated postcard as a cold pressed sheet of Arches. I do not accept the tyranny of the page.

It is important to gain understanding through experience of the media with which we work to achieve the desired results.

Then again, let’s just write: Pelikan 4001 BlBk from a Parker 51+M on 90g C/P - Bob’s your uncle!

Bye,

S1

 

CAD Printer paper can be just as crapulous as any other paper. I was once called into a design office because their large-format inkjet printer was misbehaving, producing uneven lines. I looked at it, diagnosed bad (really bad) feathering, popped in a roll of decent quality 80 gsm bond paper and instantly fixed their problem.

 

The next day they called back and ordered a new, $4,000 printer.

 

I long for the day that someone will give me a $4,000 FP in exchange for some good paper.

[Sandy1]

 

CAD Printer paper can be just as crapulous as any other paper. I was once called into a design office because their large-format inkjet printer was misbehaving, producing uneven lines. I looked at it, diagnosed bad (really bad) feathering, popped in a roll of decent quality 80 gsm bond paper and instantly fixed their problem.

 

The next day they called back and ordered a new, $4,000 printer.

 

I long for the day that someone will give me a $4,000 FP in exchange for some good paper.

 

 

Hi,

 

To date, I have to write something clever on the paper before I get paid $4K.

 

Fingers crossed that my origami skills develop to the point that I don't have to write to get paid...

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 31, 2017 by Sandy1

[otw]

Hi,

 

Let’s dance…

 

... snipped for brevity ...

Sandy1, thank you for this incredible, useful post.

Edited May 31, 2017 by economicalpenster

[Sandy1]

Sandy1, thank you for this incredible, useful post.

 

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

While I pointed-out a few things, I never intend to narrow the horizon of exploration.

 

I encourage you to write upon any paper that comes under your hand.

 

We learn as we go, and have the Good Fortune that FPN Members are generous in sharing not only the good, but the bad and the ugly too.

 

Bye,

S1

Edited May 31, 2017 by Sandy1

[Chouffleur]

 

 

Hi,

 

You're welcome!

 

While I pointed-out a few things, I never intend to narrow the horizon of exploration.

 

I encourage you to write upon any paper that comes under your hand.

 

We learn as we go, and have the Good Fortune that FPN Members are generous in sharing not only the good, but the bad and the ugly too.

 

Bye,

S1

Sandy:

 

Thanks (to you and everyone else on the thread) for your insights and comments. I figure it will take me a few months to work my way through everything mentioned above but I'm sure the answers are all in there somewhere if I stick with it. ;-)

[Sandy1]

Sandy:

 

Thanks (to you and everyone else on the thread) for your insights and comments. I figure it will take me a few months to work my way through everything mentioned above but I'm sure the answers are all in there somewhere if I stick with it. ;-)

 

 

Hi,

 

As ever, I encourage everyone to put pen to paper to see what's what.

 

We seek booty beyond measure

 

Bye,

S1