Do Diamine inks fade over time?

[Nellie]

I've found that most inks I've used (especially Scrip) fade after a while and am using Noodler's only at the moment because of this. As it annoys me to find old notes nearly gone, I'd be grateful if you could relate your experience with Diamine and Rohrer & Klingner inks.

Thank you

Nellie

[RLTodd]

Greg Clark's ink sampler included fade tests. If I recall, the general rule was, if you want fade resistance, go black ink, although there were exceptions.

 

edit:

 

Checked my copy, the very dark blues like some of the Noodlers were also rated as excellent on fade resistance.

 

Edited May 20, 2007 by RLTodd

[Tricia]

At the back of the most recent edition of Greg Clark's sampler book, he has a short article on "Ink Fading," talking about how his signature on a note taped to a window had faded to almost nothing within a month. At the end of that article he states:

 

"So what would I sign that note with now? Almost any Noodlers ink or the Chinese ink, Doctor Black, if I can find it!"

 

HTH

 

[Viseguy]

At the back of the most recent edition of Greg Clark's sampler book, he has a short article on "Ink Fading," talking about how his signature on a note taped to a window had faded to almost nothing within a month. At the end of that article he states:

 

"So what would I sign that note with now? Almost any Noodlers ink or the Chinese ink, Doctor Black, if I can find it!"

 

HTH

Fade-resistance is the single biggest advantage of Noodler's, IMO. Diamine Prussian Blue holds up well, too. The more traditional brands, in my experience, do not.

[krz]

I discovered 2 of my favorites were fast faders, Herbin Cyclamen Rose and PR Tanzanite. I fade tested all of my inks in a florida sunshine window. Noodler's did the best in my tests so I use it almost exclusively.

[Inkanthropist]

I agree with Viseguy that Diamine Prussian Blue holds up well. Indigo seems robust, too. I have noticed, though, that Diamine Sepia is prone to fading, perhaps because it's so light to begin with. I left a notebook open on my fairly shaded desk for a couple of days, and the colour faded considerably.

 

Neil

[Viseguy]

It's seemingly paradoxical in that the depth of the original color doesn't seem to have much to do with its ability to resist sunlight. Compare, e.g., the deep, vibrant PR Tanzanite (cited as a fader above) with the bright, near-transparent Noodler's Yellow (rated Excellent for fade-resistance in Greg Clark's Ink Sampler). I suspect there's no paradox at all; perhaps one of the materials scientists in our number could throw light on the subject.

Edited May 20, 2007 by Viseguy

[Nellie]

Thank you!!

[Ink Stained Wretch]

I discovered 2 of my favorites were fast faders, Herbin Cyclamen Rose and PR Tanzanite. I fade tested all of my inks in a florida sunshine window. Noodler's did the best in my tests so I use it almost exclusively.

Tanzanite fades? Yow! I guess it's another candidate for mixing with Noodler's Black for a blue/black ink. I've mixed it with some of the Noodler's permenent blue inks but the color didn't please me so much. Well, thanks for that information.

[jbn10161]

J. Herbin black is extremely fade resistent. There is something on their web site about its fade-resistence, although I don't know how helpful that really is. But from personal testing and experience, I know it holds up extremely well.

[joeycoleman]

I currently have a small note in my office window. Diamine Umber isn't doing so well (it's quite faded after about two weeks), but Diamine Prussian Blue, Noodler's Black, Noodler's Cayenne, Skrip Peacock Blue, Quink Blue-Black, and Visconti Sepia all seem ok (though I should bracket that comment with the fact that I'm not in the office as I write this).

[JimStrutton]

I have notebooks written with Super Quink Blue-Black that date back to the late '50s and early '60s and they are fine, however they have not been exposed to much light and have been stored in a cold but dry area for many years.

 

Jim

 

PS I still have some of that ink left too :blink:

[Tricia]

J. Herbin black is extremely fade resistent. There is something on their web site about its fade-resistence, although I don't know how helpful that really is. But from personal testing and experience, I know it holds up extremely well.

 

 

Thanks for this! I didn't know about the fade resistance of J Herbin's inks. Here'a blurb from their pdf:

 

"These inks were amazingly lightfast. Most dye inks fade over time. After a month in the window these inks faired very well. One of the fuchsias, a blue, and two of the turquoise colors showed dramatic fading. All others held either completely or very close to the original color. These inks will disperse a bit when water is sprayed on them. They did not fade away completely in the water test and were still legible although paler."

 

The text is from a Boston calligrapher but I don't know if she was paid by J Herbin for the article or not.

 

 

[Jared]

I've started a fade test in my office window, and after only two weeks Diamine WES Imperial Blue faded to almost nothing, however, Diamine Sapphire was unaffected.

[Sandy1]

Hello,

 

I'm not sure how to approach this 'fading' thing.

 

If one doe a UV exposure test, then for an average Jane/Joe, that applies to only inks left exposured to UV for an extended period, such as signage. It seems to me that the UV test is meaningless if I keep that which is written/drawn with FP ink in a dark or dim environment. Practitioners who use FP ink to draw/paint and expect to display their work may well use special UV-absorbent glass in the frames.

 

Then we have the paper upon which the ink is applied. Is it buffered, pH neutral or otherwise has 'archival' properties? Not only can the paper disintegrate, but the impurities in the paper may attack the dyes in the ink, hence degrading / destroying the ink. (Much like a wet-process color photo (& negatives) fade out - regardless of UV exposure. (Colour prints made by the now discontinued Kodak Dye Transfer process are considered archival. Kodachrome slides are archival, even when kept in those cr*ppy slide mounts.)

 

But ink that fades even when kept in a dry dark place, and is on reasonably good paper? Get rid of the envelopes & stamps with glue; don't keep them in shoe boxes. I think that's where the average Joe/Jane is concerned. Heck, is it even worth keeping or meant to be kept? Is it ephemeral so should just be let to its own devices? Is FP ink 'fit for purpose'. ... Of course, stuff can be digitized, and that (certified) copy kept & duplicated.

 

Black or dark inks would seem to be more enduring, just because the ink has more dye and that dye is more perceptible to the human eye. IMHO light colours, such as Herbin's Blue Azure, cannot be expected to be readable for as long as their Black Pearl.

 

I also did a quick look on the 'net, and really didn't find anything too specific. It seems that little can be done to extend the life of a dye-based ink, so the emphasis is on extending the life of the paper, which in turn (not directly) should extend the time that ink remains legible.

 

Further thoughts??

 

Best Regards,

Sandy1

 

P.S. Short of using Iron Gall ink for your letters, one might consider using pigment-based inks meant for use in a graphics/calligraphy dip pens. Also, would using a fixative, such as those used for charcoal drawings, be of use?

[dannyboy]

Ditto to what SandyI says! It does seem to me that the paper one has used is of great importance in the problem of fading/not fading. Color of ink is but one factor in the larger picture.

[lapis]

I find that most of my R&Ks somehow start off rather faded. Then they stay that way.

 

Mike

[oldstoat]

Most hand written notes aren't exposed to prolonged sunlight but are in books, journals, files etc. Possibly low sulphur and/or acid free papers would offer less fading under those circumstances. My only direct experience, as I've posted before is that notes I made in Quink Black in the mid 90s are still black when I open the file, but modern Quink Black was noticeably grey after 3-4 months: both stored in filing cabinets. To be fair the early ones were written on standard NHS notecards, the recent ones on laser paper ( brand unknown)

[Sandy1]

Ditto to what SandyI says! It does seem to me that the paper one has used is of great importance in the problem of fading/not fading. Color of ink is but one factor in the larger picture.

 

Hello again,

 

I did have a wee look on the 'net, using "longevity" as a search criteria.

 

One fellow mentioned that colors in the Pink portion of the Spectrum fade faster than colors in the Blue portion. Something to do with wavelength, that seems to be common regardless of the medium.

 

BR

S1

[Sandy1]

Most hand written notes aren't exposed to prolonged sunlight but are in books, journals, files etc. Possibly low sulphur and/or acid free papers would offer less fading under those circumstances. My only direct experience, as I've posted before is that notes I made in Quink Black in the mid 90s are still black when I open the file, but modern Quink Black was noticeably grey after 3-4 months: both stored in filing cabinets. To be fair the early ones were written on standard NHS notecards, the recent ones on laser paper ( brand unknown)

 

Hello,

I very much agree that comparing one's own old notes, journals, etc can only speak to the products that were on the market at that time.

(I was dearly tempted to ask folks to pull out there oldest writings to see how they fared over the years.)

 

It is very much wishful thinking that a product remains unchanged over the years, and that those changes are 'for the best'.

 

As for Quink, a few months ago I asked one of the nice people there about their new packaging not having the word 'permanent'. Her reply was politely typical - they can't control what happens to their product once it leaves the factory gate, so they too recognize that 'permanent' is conditional & relative.

 

I looked at what the Library of Congress has online, but that referred again to the paper & storage issues - not the FP inks.

 

So far I avoided topics of vanity, existentialism & the nature of time.

 

BR

S1