Importance Of Good Paper

[Cryptos]

Okay, the paper samples have arrived. I've never used goatskin parchment before, never even seen it, so I have a question: which side do you write on? Note: one side has a texture, the other is smooth.

[dcwaites]

I would guess the smooth side, but, be a devil, try both.

[pjo]

Okay, the paper samples have arrived. I've never used goatskin parchment before, never even seen it, so I have a question: which side do you write on? Note: one side has a texture, the other is smooth.

 

My guess would be to write on the smooth side.

 

Is it a "paper", or is it genuine vellum (animal skin)?

 

Peter

[Cryptos]

They say it is goatskin parchment, so I have to assume that it's the animal skin version. Unfortunately I left it at work, will try it tomorrow. I will sacrifice a sheet to the gods of experimentation (Nibs, Inks).

[JayHomeBody]

They say it is goatskin parchment, so I have to assume that it's the animal skin version. Unfortunately I left it at work, will try it tomorrow. I will sacrifice a sheet to the gods of experimentation (Nibs, Inks).

 

What company is this? It sounds cool, and if it does free samples, i would love to try it. <3

[Cryptos]

It's a company in New Zealand. I doubt they would entertain sending samples overseas, but you could ask. Do you want me to pm the details?

[JayHomeBody]

It's a company in New Zealand. I doubt they would entertain sending samples overseas, but you could ask. Do you want me to pm the details?

Yes, please! I don't have any nice paper yet, so if by chance they do send samples overseas, it would be very interesting to feel the huge difference.

[DarkAudit]

What was the result of your test of the parchment?

[Cryptos]

Haven't had the chance to test it yet. Will do so on Friday (local time). You may have noticed (or not) on the the news that we have a rather nasty cyclone hitting New Zealand right about now?

[JayHomeBody]

Haven't had the chance to test it yet. Will do so on Friday (local time). You may have noticed (or not) on the the news that we have a rather nasty cyclone hitting New Zealand right about now?

I heard, I have a friend up that way and he said it's pretty bad. Are y'all ok, empty_of_clouds?

[mamajones]

I have two comments, one on the original question, one on the goatskin (the latter quite long!)

 

One reason to use better paper with fountain pens that has not been mentioned is that if the paper is really poor quality, fibers from the paper can get into your nib (between the tines) which is obviously bad.

 

As for the goatskin parchment, well, ask a medievalist! As I said in another thread, I am a professor at a small college and a specialist in medieval England (and Scandinavia). I have also had some training in paleography (the study of old handwritings) codicology (the study of books), but my expertise is limited to medieval Europe.

 

It sounds like they have sent you real parchment, which is made from animal skins. The best parchments are generally made from calf and sheep skins which are scraped, treated, scraped, stretched, whited, etc. We (medievalists) generally call all parchments vellum, but technically vellum is usually reserved only for the highest quality parchment made of calf skin. You can certainly find how-tos and explanations about vellum on-line.

 

Because it is made from actual animal skin, vellum has a hair-side and a skin-side (that's their technical names!). The better the vellum, the less obvious the hair-side, but one can discern the difference even in the best vellum used for the finest manuscripts (think Book of Kells).

 

When one is putting together a gathering (a group of pages sewn together) for a manuscript, one puts the like sides together -- that is, skin-side to skin-side, hair-side to hair-side -- so that the hair-sides will rub against each other, not against the nicer skin-sides. And of course, one tries to do the fancy stuff (illuminations etc) on the skin-side.

 

But you absolutely write on BOTH SIDES. It seems obvious once you think about it: these are animal skins that are written on by hand (which I don't have to tell anyone HERE takes some time). Thus every manuscript is the result of an enormous amount of labor of which the writing is only a small part. As I tell my students, first, you take a cow, raise it, etc. (In the classroom, I go through every step, but won't bore you here!)

 

The manufacturers are right about the longevity of vellum: there are vellum manuscripts in perfect condition that can be firmly dated to over 1400 years ago. (In contrast, I have some books published within the last 50 years that are disintegrating!) As long as the proper inks are used (that's a whole other subject) and the manuscripts are not abused, vellum manuscripts last.

 

(Just FYI: Paper manuscripts were not common in Europe although there was paper produced as early at the 12th century. In Europe, paper for books only really spreads with the printing press. Other places like China, of course, have totally different histories.)

 

I would use an iron gall ink on the parchment if you have any as that would be closest to what was actually used in the Middle Ages. And I would start with the skin side, just for practice. I suspect the two sides will be very different, but I have never actually had a chance to actually write on parchment. One of these days....

 

Hope that was not TOO much. Just trying to help with something I actually know about!

[Cryptos]

Brilliant, mamajones. The day has arrived to test this interesting material.

 

AdrielGrey, the cyclone has moved further south and is drifting eastward out to sea. We've got a lot of rain now, but not much else. The North Island got hammered last night, but not as badly as predicted. Still bad though.

[ac12]

There are 4 variables to writing

• pen
• paper
• ink
• writer

Each variable can make a significant different to the writing experience. And each one can turn a good writing experience into a horrible one.

 

So on to paper.

As one of the important variables, it IS important to a good writing experience.

But, it does NOT have to be EXPENSIVE.

If you do your research, you can find quite a bit of decent paper at very affordable prices.

• The king of cheap and decent is, the Staples, single subject, wire bound, notebooks, made in BRAZIL. Country of origin is CRITICAL.
  During the 'back to school' sale (June,July,Aug), it sold for all of 17 CENTS each. The first time I bought 30, the next time I bought only 10 (because that was all the BRAZIL notebooks they had). And if you write a LOT, like when improving your penmanship, the cost savings can be significant; 17 cents vs. $10.
  This is not GREAT paper but pretty decent paper. If you use a modern western F nib or wider it will do just fine. If you use a western EF or Japanese F nib, you will feel that the paper is a bit scratchy.

Loose, lined paper (pack size varies)

• Staples, made in BRAZIL. As with the notebook above, best price is during the 'back to school' sale.

Pads, lined

• Office Depot, sugar cane.

Unlined paper, by the ream (500 sheets).

Here you have to either print lines or dots onto the paper, or use a guide sheet under the paper, or write freehand without line aids.

• Staples, Sustainable Earth, sugar cane paper, 20#. About $9 a ream.
• HP, Laser paper, 24#. About $13 a ream.
• HP, Premium, 32#. About $18 a ream.

So there you go. "Affordable" paper.

[Cryptos]

Okay, the Goatskin Parchment is really good. I tried it with a variety of nibs - from pointed pen to broad italic - and various inks - walnut, iron gall, Oster, Sailor, Herbin, Sumi, Iroshizuku. The parchment is slightly toothier on one side, though both sides have noticeable tooth when using the sharpest of pointed pens. The surface is not hard like like Rhodia, but firm enough to apply pressure to a pointed pen without cutting.

 

There was no obvious feathering, bleed through or show through (unless held up to light).

 

I suspect that this parchment is likely quite expensive, and as such would be best suited to specialty work rather than everyday writing.

 

[Sasha Royale]

Start with standard copy paper. Glossy / high brightness rating is better. You should be able to

find one to suit your needs. Next, try resumé paper.

 

Try this: Ask members to write you a short note on their cheap/good paper. Get info. Have fun.

Make friends.

[sidthecat]

Paper is my pen's dance partner. The way the pen reacts with the surface, and what the resulting line looks like is a large part of the writing experience. If cheap paper works for you, excellent. I like a paper that doesn't feather and doesn't bleed through. I like paper on the smooth side and I'm somewhat indifferent to color: it doesn't have to be White white. My notebooks are ruled for the purposes of discipline. 7mm is a nice size, and I'm happy to draw on it. A cat is a good model, especially when it's asleep.

[FLZapped]

Paper does indeed matter. I've had stuff so bad that my nib grew a beard while writing.....

[LeonW]

I have two comments, one on the original question, one on the goatskin (the latter quite long!)

 

One reason to use better paper with fountain pens that has not been mentioned is that if the paper is really poor quality, fibers from the paper can get into your nib (between the tines) which is obviously bad.

 

As for the goatskin parchment, well, ask a medievalist! As I said in another thread, I am a professor at a small college and a specialist in medieval England (and Scandinavia). I have also had some training in paleography (the study of old handwritings) codicology (the study of books), but my expertise is limited to medieval Europe.

 

It sounds like they have sent you real parchment, which is made from animal skins. The best parchments are generally made from calf and sheep skins which are scraped, treated, scraped, stretched, whited, etc. We (medievalists) generally call all parchments vellum, but technically vellum is usually reserved only for the highest quality parchment made of calf skin. You can certainly find how-tos and explanations about vellum on-line.

 

Because it is made from actual animal skin, vellum has a hair-side and a skin-side (that's their technical names!). The better the vellum, the less obvious the hair-side, but one can discern the difference even in the best vellum used for the finest manuscripts (think Book of Kells).

 

When one is putting together a gathering (a group of pages sewn together) for a manuscript, one puts the like sides together -- that is, skin-side to skin-side, hair-side to hair-side -- so that the hair-sides will rub against each other, not against the nicer skin-sides. And of course, one tries to do the fancy stuff (illuminations etc) on the skin-side.

 

But you absolutely write on BOTH SIDES. It seems obvious once you think about it: these are animal skins that are written on by hand (which I don't have to tell anyone HERE takes some time). Thus every manuscript is the result of an enormous amount of labor of which the writing is only a small part. As I tell my students, first, you take a cow, raise it, etc. (In the classroom, I go through every step, but won't bore you here!)

 

The manufacturers are right about the longevity of vellum: there are vellum manuscripts in perfect condition that can be firmly dated to over 1400 years ago. (In contrast, I have some books published within the last 50 years that are disintegrating!) As long as the proper inks are used (that's a whole other subject) and the manuscripts are not abused, vellum manuscripts last.

 

(Just FYI: Paper manuscripts were not common in Europe although there was paper produced as early at the 12th century. In Europe, paper for books only really spreads with the printing press. Other places like China, of course, have totally different histories.)

 

I would use an iron gall ink on the parchment if you have any as that would be closest to what was actually used in the Middle Ages. And I would start with the skin side, just for practice. I suspect the two sides will be very different, but I have never actually had a chance to actually write on parchment. One of these days....

 

Hope that was not TOO much. Just trying to help with something I actually know about!

Thank you for the explanation ~ more detailed than I have read in many years.

[gregamckinney]

If I was an amanuensis, I would worry more about the cost of paper, but I get to do little enough writing as it is, so I want to fully enjoy the experience.

I can't imagine spending (what I consider) significant money on pens and ink but scrimping on paper, putting such a weak link in the chain.

For note cards, I like Exacompta; for larger format notebooks, Mnemosyne; and for journals, nothing is like a Nanami.

 

Best Regards, greg

[sidthecat]

I found a source for Real vellum (made from a sheep) and sent a piece to my sister, who's always complaining about the quality of the papers she uses for her art.

Her response: "What the hell am I supposed to do with this?!"

She does not deal well with surprises, but she promised to see what she could do with her technical pens.