Perfectly Aligned Nib Feels Scratchy

[Pendimonium]

I recently got a Pilot 743 B and am liking it quite a bit. However, the nib is extremely sensitive to rotation. What I mean by that is that when you draw an imaginary line connecting the tines, the pen only writes smooth if that line runs perfectly parallel to the paper. If I hold it slightly off angle - and by slightly I really mean barely visible - I'm experiencing a scratchy, paper cutting kinda sensation. Strange thing is though, I have a Belomo 12x loupe and to my untrained eyes at least, the tines look to be in perfect alignment?

 

I really do enjoy writing with this nib, but it's so extremely sensitive to rotation, so much that it is hard to tell and control, which takes the fun out of it.

[Pendimonium]

Well, I guess this shows how much of a fountain pen noob I still am. I did a side-to-side comparison with my other pens and noticed that those too show the same characteristic, though it is not that pronounced. These feel like I'm not writing with the polished tip anymore when I rotate, rather than the paper cutting sensation I get from the 743. Guess the pen is like it should be and I have to try and adjust.

[fly_us]

A round nib should not give much different feeling when rotate few degrees. Anything less than 15 degrees should be fine.

 

Of course, if you rotate it too much, then it is another story. I think you rotate it too much. If you tend to rotate your pen while writing, you could consider the oblique nibs.

[Pendimonium]

Not sure how many degrees, but I think I rotate it very little - it's barely discernible.

 

But, I think I know what the problem might be. Could it be that the edges of the nib slit are too sharp, so that when the pen is rotated it feels scratchy? I can't see / compare if this is the case with my 12x loupe though.

[fly_us]

Round nibs shouldn't have sharp edges, italic nibs does. That's why i suspect the rotation instead of the fault of the nib itself.

 

When you rotate, one tine is lifted higher than another one, while another one is pressed down the paper, therefore they does not touch the paper as the same time. But since the round nib is round, if you don't rotate too much, you shouldn't feel any different.

 

Could you try to take some close up pictures of the nib? and how you usually hold the pen to write?

[Komboloi]

It could be too that the sides of the nib are not sufficiently polished. Nice and smooth in the middle with microscopic burrs on the sides. That would be an easy thing to fix with some fine micromesh and a motion that polishes the areas away from the center a little better.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Are you holding the fountain pen behind the big knuckle like a fountain pen or before it like a ball point. That along with tine alignment is often 95% of scratchy.

 

First holding it like a ball point, makes you gouge little grand canyons in the paper and there is not enough ink to lubricate.

Letting it REST behind the big knuckle at 45 degrees or at 40 degrees start of the web of the thumb, allows the pen to float on a larger puddle of ink.....and gives you more 'slop' because of that for holding the nib exactly...exact.

 

In it's a Japanese B or Western M....I'm surprised it needs to be held so tightly to a 'perfect' hold like a Japanese EF or western XXF.

[Pendimonium]

It could be too that the sides of the nib are not sufficiently polished. Nice and smooth in the middle with microscopic burrs on the sides. That would be an easy thing to fix with some fine micromesh and a motion that polishes the areas away from the center a little better.

 

Interesting. Too bad I can't inspect the nib closer. I ordered a 20x Belomo, maybe that will get me somewhere?

Although I have micro-mesh and mylar paper, being a total noob with no experience, I'm a bit hesitant to educate myself on this nib.

[Pendimonium]

Are you holding the fountain pen behind the big knuckle like a fountain pen or before it like a ball point. That along with tine alignment is often 95% of scratchy.

 

First holding it like a ball point, makes you gouge little grand canyons in the paper and there is not enough ink to lubricate.

Letting it REST behind the big knuckle at 45 degrees or at 40 degrees start of the web of the thumb, allows the pen to float on a larger puddle of ink.....and gives you more 'slop' because of that for holding the nib exactly...exact.

 

In it's a Japanese B or Western M....I'm surprised it needs to be held so tightly to a 'perfect' hold like a Japanese EF or western XXF.

 

I'm trying to do the tripod grip on which there is a thread somewhere on this forum:

[Komboloi]

 

Interesting. Too bad I can't inspect the nib closer. I ordered a 20x Belomo, maybe that will get me somewhere?

Although I have micro-mesh and mylar paper, being a total noob with no experience, I'm a bit hesitant to educate myself on this nib.

 

I don't think a 20x loupe is going to allow you enough magnification and resolution to see roughness of the type that can make a nib feel scratchy in places. But I salute you for not working on a nib outside your comfort zone.

[ac12]

Do NOT use micromesh on the nib . . . yet. Micromesh will REMOVE tipping material from the nib, and that is a one way street. Once you remove tipping, you cannot put it back. So it should be used with discretion and care.

 

When you look at the nib, are you looking at it "head on?" You should be looking at the nib at the same angle as the nib is on the paper, which is not "head on." The nib can look aligned 'head on' but be out of alignment when viewed at paper angle.

 

The finer the nib the more fussy it is to the texture of the paper surface.

 

If you press the pen down, vs. just using the pen's weight, you will expose the inner edge of the slit on the tipping.

 

If you do not have enough ink flow, you won't have the lubricant to lubricate the nib on the paper.

[Pendimonium]

Do NOT use micromesh on the nib . . . yet. Micromesh will REMOVE tipping material from the nib, and that is a one way street. Once you remove tipping, you cannot put it back. So it should be used with discretion and care.

 

When you look at the nib, are you looking at it "head on?" You should be looking at the nib at the same angle as the nib is on the paper, which is not "head on." The nib can look aligned 'head on' but be out of alignment when viewed at paper angle.

 

The finer the nib the more fussy it is to the texture of the paper surface.

 

If you press the pen down, vs. just using the pen's weight, you will expose the inner edge of the slit on the tipping.

 

If you do not have enough ink flow, you won't have the lubricant to lubricate the nib on the paper.

 

The nib is fairly wet, I would say. I look on the nib as recommended in Richard Binder's workshop PDF.

I don't use any pressure when writing; just trying to guide the pen.

 

Ah yes, ink is Diamine & Waterman, paper is Rhodia Dotpad.

[Bo Bo Olson]

If one buys dirt cheap loupes on Ebay. 20X may not be enough.

 

I have a nice 10 X one....could see at max a 12 X loupe if the glass and coatings are good.

I would think 15 X as too much.

[UDog]

Send the pen back for a replacement.

[Pendimonium]

Send the pen back for a replacement.

Not an economical option, I ordered through a forwarding service.

If one buys dirt cheap loupes on Ebay. 20X may not be enough.

 

I have a nice 10 X one....could see at max a 12 X loupe if the glass and coatings are good.

I would think 15 X as too much.

My loupe is a 12x Belomo, and I love it. I have very "good" eyes though. The 20x I ordered is also a Belomo.

Edited February 9, 2017 by Pendimonium

[Mahidevran]

I recently got a Pilot 743 B and am liking it quite a bit. However, the nib is extremely sensitive to rotation. What I mean by that is that when you draw an imaginary line connecting the tines, the pen only writes smooth if that line runs perfectly parallel to the paper. If I hold it slightly off angle - and by slightly I really mean barely visible - I'm experiencing a scratchy, paper cutting kinda sensation. Strange thing is though, I have a Belomo 12x loupe and to my untrained eyes at least, the tines look to be in perfect alignment?

 

I really do enjoy writing with this nib, but it's so extremely sensitive to rotation, so much that it is hard to tell and control, which takes the fun out of it.

I am having the same problem with my Kakuno in EF, though I expect it's due to the ink being a bit dry (not sure if this is the case, I'm using the namiki cartridge that comes along with it). It feels really scratchy unless I'm writing at a certain angle and sometimes there are paper fibers stuck between the tines. It's annoying. I'm pretty sure it's not the paper since I'm using Rhodia as well.

 

Perhaps the finer the nib goes, especially for Japanese nibs, the more sensitive it is towards the angle you're holding the nib and the rotation. Don't know, just a theory of mine.

[OMASsimo]

Well, the finer the nib the fussier they get. But that usually refers more to ink flow and cutting into the paper. In my experience, rotating the pen is more of an issue with broad nibs because there's simply no ink on the sides. For me it sounds indeed like an overly sharp edge on the slit side of the tines. That's the extreme opposite to baby bottom. This is quite easy to fix with a tiny bit of grinding and polishing but I understand that you don't want to do that unless you have a little bit of experience.

 

A safe thing you can try is taking some very rough paper and squiggling circles on it while deliberately rotating the pen. This is a very mild way of taking off the edge from the nib.

 

I hope you'll be able to fix the problem and enjoy the pen for the rest of your life. Sometimes it takes a while to break in a great pen.

[markh]

I would suggest four ideas:

 

1. A lighter touch on the pen.

 

2. If one of the tines has a slight tweak/bend, the nib can appear aligned when viewing with a loupe from the front, but one tine can be slightly longer at the tip than the other. The nib will behave differently based on the pen angle vs the page. Depending on your personal writing style and how you vary the angle when you write, you may notice certain lines at certain angles scrape or catch the page. I think most people tend to vary the angle in their normal handwriting. One solution is to use a nib block to smooth out the bend. A more likely solution is to use a fine abrasive (mmesh, 6k or 12k) to even everything out.

 

Using an abrasive on a nib permanently removes material, and take practice to get right.

 

3. The inside edge of one or both tips can be too sharp. There is a range from too round (giving a "babys-bottom" flow problem) and too sharp (catching the paper). Within that range the pen will work fine, and exactly how it feels and writes is a matter of taste. If the tipping is too sharp the solution is to slightly round the inside edge. You can do this with the same 12K MM, or use a thinner abrasive slipped between the tines.

 

Same warning as before. With a fine or X-fine nib this takes even more practice.

 

4. It's sometimes possible that an increased ink flow will minimize the problem, but if the tip is really not right IMO that's not the best fix.

 

 

Alas - practice (on cheap nibs) and accepting a certain amount of risk of damaging the nib is unavoidable. Which is why people send nibs to experts.

 

 

.

Edited October 26, 2017 by markh

[PAKMAN]

A lighter touch is also my suggestion.

[mitto]

Seems the inside edge or edges of the nib need to be rounded.

Edited October 26, 2017 by mitto