Noodler's Ink Not Drying / Smearing

[gryphon1911]

While I have experienced some long dry times with some Noodlers inks, I've never had them take hours or days to dry.

 

I've write with

Black

54th Mass

Golden Brown

Antietam

Habanero

 

On

 

clairefontaine

Rhodia

Marian Mnemosyne

Apica

Midori

HP 32lb copy paper and much cheaper stuff

 

There has to be some thing about the combinations you are writing with... But what that is, truly puzzling.

[lapis]

This problem is only on smooth coated paper with no tooth right?

No +. I had that problem even with the cheapest, roughest, non-coated and most absorbent paper I can find. That has no effect (except that it supports feathering). I say had because I now don't use that ink anymore just for that reason. I can accept feathering and bleeding but not unimaginable drying times. Even a blotter doesn't help here.

 

Gasp

[dcwaites]

The wetness of the ink must match the wetness of the pen.

Noodler's inks tend to be on the wet side, and if you use them in a wet pen, you will put so much ink down on the paper that you will have problems with drying.

 

I first came across this problem with Noodler's Blue (mentioned above) and Nu: Elite notebooks. The solution I was given was to dilute the ink with 20% ~ 40% water. This worked a treat.

 

My pens tend to be on the medium dry side. I find that this gives me the greatest range of shading with quicker dry times. As well, I am using less ink, so the fill in the pen lasts longer, and I can use a wider range of papers without feathering or bleeding.

 

If you must use a wet pen, then you will have to use drier inks like Akkerman, Pelikan (4001 & Edelstein) and Sheaffer Skrip.

 

This is not a criticism of pen or ink, just a statement that the ink must match the pen.

[matteob]

@Lapis which ink of his are you using?

 

Certainly seems a bizarre situation as gryphon1911 says. The sample I posted above was written with a Cross Century ii with medium nib on a bog standard, cheap refillable A4 Recycled pad. I also use an ASA Daily with a Schmidt broad nib with no issues. I think also that if Noodlers ink did not work with a wet nib, it is foolish of Mr Tardif to market a pen with a wet three tine music nib??

 

Horses for courses but I am very happy with his ink. Personally I am not a buyer or fancy paper. As long as it is acid free and of decent archival quality then I am happy.

 

P.S dcwaites: good to see another PG lover!

Edited December 16, 2016 by matteob

[lapis]

@Lapis which ink of his are you using?

Noodler's Blue, as I mentioned earlier in this thread.

[matteob]

Yea but he makes several blues

 

Here is the Noodlers No Feather which I got this morning on cheap inkjet paper. Reasonable resistance to feathering but still some show through on 80gsm weight.

 

I would drop him a line and talk to him about it. He seems a bit abrasive but I think he has a good heart and will listen to genuine feedback. He is a tiny artisan producer: it is in his interest to.

Edited December 16, 2016 by matteob

[lapis]

Yea but he makes several blues

 

Yea back... there is only one "Blue" in Nathan's blues.... For me, his "best" blue, but only as re color....

[jernst]

Timing is everything....

 

I came across this thread as I was getting ready to ask why my favorite ink - Noodler's "Zhivago" seems to be taking forever to dry. What a shame. Doesn't seem to make too much of a difference with the paper I'm using - Midori, Leuchtturm or Clairfontaine, although it is slightly better with Rhodia.

 

Thanks for the insight.

 

john

[JonSzanto]

Yea but he makes several blues

 

Yes, but only one ink whose name is, specifically, Noodlers Blue. That is what the person said they use, and there is a specific ink with that name.

[inkstainedruth]

I haven't had this problem -- and I use a lot of different Noodler's inks. I *have*, however, had significant dry-time issues (to the level that the OP talks about) with some Private Reserve inks -- DCSS Blue and DC Electric Blue were smudgy at least a month on Tomoe River paper.

But I *have* read complaints about the "bulletproof"inks in the past (especially Noodler's Black) -- only the part of the ink directly touching the paper -- no matter what type or brand -- is going to bond with the cellulose in the paper. Everything else is just going to sit on top of what has bonded; so it will smudge.

I'll admit that I'm not a fan of Noodler's Black in general (I much prefer Heart of Darkness, and I also have a bottle of Old Manhattan -- but I don't use black ink much in general).

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

ETA: Of the 4 inks the OP mentioned, I've only used three of them. Like I said, I didn't have the issue with Noodler's Black -- although admittedly I was mostly using it on cheap printer paper. I've also not had the issue with Liberty's Elysium to my recollection; my experience with Apache Sunset was pretty limited, because I really disliked the color (okay, I dislike orange inks in general).

Edited December 17, 2016 by inkstainedruth

[Witsius]

Noodler's black smudges; it's true. I haven't had as much an issue with smudging with Old Manhattan Blackest Black, but that ink exhibits signifigant spreading and is really "runny." I've given up on Noodler's inks. Smudging on some inks, excessive dry time on others, obescene nib creep (such that it looks like the pen is leaking), being an entirely different color from what was advertised, color changing in the bottle after only 6 months, and some being a royal pain to clean from a pen have caused me to turn to inks lik Aurora, Waterman, and Pelikan. BTW, Aurora and Pelikan blacks exhibit a reasonable amount of water resistance such that an accidental spill won't eradicate what you've written. Pilot Blue Black is also supposed to be quite water resistant.

 

Here's the thing that everyone seems to ignore. Noodler's bullet-proof inks contain a particulate, and I wonder if it is this particulate that smudges. Any liquid component that either evaporates or absorbs into the paper will leave behind this particulate on the surface of the paper (especially with Noodler's Black). It's also left behind in your pen, even after vigorous flushing. Don't believe it? Disassemble a pen after flushing an ink like Noodler's black out, and run a Q-Tip through it. You'll find a sooty residue that will only come off the pen parts by actually wiping them clean.

[matteob]

I understand Noodlers black to be a dye based ink rather than a pigment/iron gall ink so it should not be leaving behind any residue.

[JonSzanto]

I understand Noodlers black to be a dye based ink rather than a pigment/iron gall ink so it should not be leaving behind any residue.

 

What should happen and what does happen are often not the same. All that matters is the reality of the situation, not what is supposed to be.

[ink-syringe]

I have several inks that are really loaded with dye that work GREAT when they are fresh but if there is even a little evaporation then the inks get bogged down with dyes, surfactants, humectants and do not contain enough water and never dry completely.

 

This will usually happen in pen that has a poor sealing cap or which is used too infrequently.

 

For example I have a wonderful Aurora 88p but the cap makes a pretty poor seal on that pen. If i load that up with Visconti Blue it gives me no problem on day one but the pen holds a lot of ink and the cap seal is not so hot so a few days later I am in Visconti Blue skid mark city.

 

 

If you have an ink that is so loaded with dyes, surfactants, humectants that it is right up against the breaking point as so many super saturated modern inks are and you get a little bit of evaporation, YOU ARE NOT GOING TO HAVE A GOOD TIME.

 

Cut it with water (a little)

Use it fast

Cap it good.

 

But some inks just smear. A few Noodles, a few Diamine (in particular), etc are carrying as much dye as they already possibly can. Majestic Blue, Noodler's Blue, Ottman's Azure ... etc.

 

You all want eye popping colors right? heh.

Edited December 18, 2016 by ink-syringe

[JonSzanto]

You all want eye popping colors right? heh.

 

The sound that most of you just heard was that of a nail being hit squarely on the head.

Edited December 18, 2016 by JonSzanto

[jernst]

Seems like several responses suggest that adding water might help. I'm pretty new to bottled ink, how does one cut with water and how much?

Thanks.

john

[graystranger]

Adding water does help. The problem is high dye saturation in the ink. I've used Noodler's inks for years and when I've seen this effect on ink resistant papers, my pen had been inked for a good while and used intermittently. Or it was a pen with a cap that does not seal that well and water evaporates over a few days or a week or three. It seems like the ink in the feed slowly dries and becomes more saturated when the pen is not used to write enough to keep the ink flowing from the reservoir. When freshly filled, this does not happen to me with my Noodler's inks, that is, the ink dries in a few minutes (not immediately) on Clairefontaine, Rhodia, Tomoe River, and Midori papers.

 

My solutions:

 

1) I add a few drops of distilled water to the cartridge or converter using a mini pipette

 

2) Rinse the nib off in running tap water, wipe with a paper towel and the problem goes away.

 

3) Add up to 10% (or even more) distilled water to the bottle will help, but I rarely do this as fresh Noodler's ink in a pen has never been a problem for me, only after the ink has been in the pen for a while.

 

I have had my Platinum 3776 Century pen inked with Black Swan in Australian Roses for months now. Since the nib on that pen does not dry out at all when capped, It never has this happen at all. Neither does any Noodler's inks in my Lamy 2000, which does not seem to dry out at all. But, that is a wet pen with a hooded nib. I have used Noodler's Black and Heart of Darkness in it.

 

My Vanishing Points are used frequently, but often for brief writing spells, so not much ink flows out each time I use them. The multiple short times exposed seems to slowly dry out the ink in the nib/feed over a week or so. I will remove the nib and rinse it as above. When I used Noodler's Black in a Vanishing Point daily at work, and the ink flowed regularly through the nib/feed, this effect never happened at all.

 

Using permanent bulletproof inks is important to me, so I don't mind a brief rinse under tap water every week or two. This is rarely needed except in a pen that has not been used in a while, or a pen that is used often but for very brief, short periods.

 

Noodler's inks I am using (some, like Black, have been used for years):

 

Noodler's Black

Noodler's Bad Black Moccasin

Noodler's Heart of Darkness (seems to dry fairly fast)

Noodler's Liberty's Elysium

Noodler's El Lawrence

Noodler's #41 Brown

Noodler's Lexington Gray (rarely shows this)

Noodler's Burma Road Brown

Noodler's Fox

Noodler's Blue Ghost

[Witsius]

I understand Noodlers black to be a dye based ink rather than a pigment/iron gall ink so it should not be leaving behind any residue.

 

 

I've read on Richard Binder's site that this particulate is what helps the ink make a permanent bond with the paper. I don't think it's actually a pigment, but some other component that allows the dye to react with cellulose. Whatever it does, that particulate is there.

[SeeksAdvice]

Stuff like this is why I don't use Noodler's anymore. Loved the concept of Zhivago; hated the execution. See the performance of many of my pens go *way* down when loaded with Noodler's products.

 

If you want a black that will be around until Hell freezes over and the cockroaches all die off, go with Sailor Kiwa-Guro or Platinum Carbon Black. Why fuss with a drooling, smudgy mess? Carbon black inks can smear, but they do dry.

 

Apache sunset may be harder to replicate.

[matteob]

@greystranger: some good advice there. I have no problems with Noodlers black at all but I use the ink in the pen quite fast. Always eject ink from a pen and clean it if it is not going to be used for a while and generally practice good pen hygene. This little company seems to get tis fair share of flack but Noodlers is half the price of the Sailor's inks and I have read more about pigment inks like that causing damage to pens than a dye based.He seems to represent excellent value for money to me and seems quite a character too. I love the fact he gives you an eyedropper pen specially designed for Heart of Darkness with the bottle.

 

I did a test on my no feather ink and the only place it did not dry and smudged on was on a very highly coated outside of a Christmas card. I am not a huge fan of coated paper anyway. I know Tomoe River is coated but can anyone tell me if Clairefontaine is?

Edited December 19, 2016 by matteob