Parker "51" Imprinting

[vicpen123]

I recently purchased a "51" at a pen show that has no place of manufacture or date code imprinted on the base of the barrel near the clutch ring. No "MADE IN USA or ENGLAND" and no date code. At the base of the cap is the word "PARKER" alone.

 

The pen is in very good condition and there is no evidence that they had been polished off. The ink is was still clear, the cap has no dings or scratches and the barrel and section are hardly marked.

 

The cap has the long clip, the metal filler sleeve on the Aerometric filler states press 4 times, there is no reference to Superchrome ink, barrel colour is teal blue and cap is non-gold (stainless or Lustraloy?).

 

As my 4 other 4 "51"s all have place of manufacture and a date code, I wonder if there was ever a time when Parker ceased to mark the pens. Any help would be appreciated.

 

Edit: Should be Lustraloy for cap finish not Octanium which was for nibs.

Edited November 28, 2016 by vicpen123

[dogpoet]

There might be an embossing in the barrel?

[joss]

Parker ceased imprinting P51 pen barrels in 1952.

Check the Parker 51 time line here: http://parker51.com/index.php/education/51-chronology/

[mitto]

You definitely have an English aero 51. The English Aero 51 sac guard has no mention of 1) the usage of ink whatsoever neither superchrom nor parker and 2) the country where the pen was made.

 

The timeline for omission of imprint on English 51 barrels is much debated. I have personally seen - and still own - English 51s with imprints on barrels as late as 1956. Some say the imprint on English 51 continued until 1959. One more thing. The English 51 have a single digit date code for the 1950s as opposed to double digit codes for post 1950 US made 51s.

 

The earlier Mk-1 lustraloy 51 cap does not have country of origin imprinted on its back.

Edited November 29, 2016 by mitto

[pajaro]

So there is some uncertainty about imprints? I wonder if the syndicate knows, since it is apparently all knowing.

[mitto]

There is no uncertainty in the imprints on the sac guard of English 51s. No instructions on use of any particular ink and no mention of country of origin. For sure. But yes, you can say there is uncertainty as to when the barrel imprint was discontinued. Anyhow this discontinuation was NOT in 1952 as on USA made pens. And the date code on English 51s was definitely in single digit in the 50s.

[sherbie]

The last date code on English made lucite P51's that i have seen is 6. = Q3 1956

 

On the metal pens ( the insignia all rolled gold) i have a pen dated 9 = Q4 1959

 

However i do have several lustraloy ( and rolled gold) caps with made in england and made in usa on them

 

All mark II pens ( the one with the flat ends) should always have made in xxxx on them, and the "arrow going through the oval" mark

 

Ps it might help if you could post photos of the pen

Edited November 29, 2016 by sherbie

[mitto]

The last date code on English made lucite P51's that i have seen is 6. = Q3 1956

On the metal pens ( the insignia all rolled gold) i have a pen dated 9 = Q4 1959

However i do have several lustraloy ( and rolled gold) caps with made in england and made in usa on them

All mark II pens ( the one with the flat ends) should always have made in xxxx on them, and the "arrow going through the oval" mark

Ps it might help if you could post photos of the pen

I was talking about the earlier Mark-1 51s when saying the lustraloy cap doesnt have country of origin imprinted on its back. Not the later ones.

Since I thought the OP was talking about the early Mk-1 51 with long arrow clip. Have edited my earlier post accordingly.

 

Other than that I totally agree with what you said.

Edited November 29, 2016 by mitto

[vicpen123]

Three photos attached. Lustraloy cap does not have country of origin.

 

I have other P "51"s made in England with imprint and date stamp viz 'Made in England .5' and 'Made in England .6'. Both burgundy Aerometrics. No country of origin or ink type on sac guards.

[mitto]

Yes, the mark-1 lustraloy 51 cap does not have country of origin imprinted on its back.

 

Likewise, the English 51s do not have any mention of usage of ink whatsoever on the sac guard.. And these also do not have any mention of where the pens were made.

 

I am NOT talking of the lustray caps on the mk11 and mk111 English 51s.

[TheRedBeard]

One of my 51s is England-made Aero black with GF cap.

It has a metal sac protector with a black plastic top and no mention of country or ink on it.

There is no mention of the country on the cap either.

There are only two inscriptions on the cap: "PARKER" and "1/10 12ct R.GOLD".

Could anyone give me a clue of years range it was manufactured in?

 

Thanks for any useful thoughts.

 

[inkstainedruth]

Pictures would help.  I know that the Aerometrics that are pre-1956 or 1957 tend to say how many times (I forget if it's four or six) to depress the squeeze bar on the sac sleeve -- and to use Superchrome ink, which of course was discontinued).  In my inventory notes, several of the Aeros (the Midnight Blue one, for instance, and the Forest Green one) don't have date codes, but I have a notation that they're post-1956 from what else it says on the sleeve.  I'd recommend checking the Parker 51 article on Tony Fischier's site (parkercollector.com) -- that's my first place to look for information on any and all Parker models.

Also, if it doesn't give a country of manufacture, how do you know it's a UK-production model?  (I have only one, the Navy Gray Aero, that is UK-production, and it says "Made in England"; all the others (and I think all the 51 Vacs) say "Made in USA").  Not a criticism, mind, but a legitimate question (because they were also made in other countries as well).

Hmmm.  The 51 Vac I got at an estate sale this morning doesn't seem to have a date code either, but I haven't really given it a good once over with the loupe yet (mind you, this would necessitate me figuring out where the loupe -- with its built-in LED light -- has gotten to... ).  Although it *does* say "1/8 14K GOLD FILLED and "MADE IN USA" on the end of the cap [capband area]; and also says "MADE IN USA" on the barrel, under the Parker imprint.

Hopefully the more expert people can weigh in on this thread.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

[mitto]

7 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Pictures would help.  I know that the Aerometrics that are pre-1956 or 1957 tend to say how many times (I forget if it's four or six) to depress the squeeze bar on the sac sleeve -- and to use Superchrome ink, which of course was discontinued).  In my inventory notes, several of the Aeros (the Midnight Blue one, for instance, and the Forest Green one) don't have date codes, but I have a notation that they're post-1956 from what else it says on the sleeve.  I'd recommend checking the Parker 51 article on Tony Fischier's site (parkercollector.com) -- that's my first place to look for information on any and all Parker models.

Also, if it doesn't give a country of manufacture, how do you know it's a UK-production model?  (I have only one, the Navy Gray Aero, that is UK-production, and it says "Made in England"; all the others (and I think all the 51 Vacs) say "Made in USA").  Not a criticism, mind, but a legitimate question (because they were also made in other countries as well).

Hmmm.  The 51 Vac I got at an estate sale this morning doesn't seem to have a date code either, but I haven't really given it a good once over with the loupe yet (mind you, this would necessitate me figuring out where the loupe -- with its built-in LED light -- has gotten to... ).  Although it *does* say "1/8 14K GOLD FILLED and "MADE IN USA" on the end of the cap [capband area]; and also says "MADE IN USA" on the barrel, under the Parker imprint.

Hopefully the more expert people can weigh in on this thread.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

There was no 'press 6 times' on english made P51s. All were press 4times fillers. Also, there was no country of origin on the filler shroud of England made P51. Neither there were any instructions as to what ink to use on English made pens. 

 

And these same very characteristics identify the pens as having been made in the UK. 

 

The barrel may, however, say   'made in England' with a datecode on early to mid 1950s'pens. Also, the nibs were inscribed 'made in England' with or without a date. 

 

Later mkII / mkIII pens may have 'made in England' on the caps. 

[TheRedBeard]

18 hours ago, inkstainedruth said:

Pictures would help.  I know that the Aerometrics that are pre-1956 or 1957 tend to say how many times (I forget if it's four or six) to depress the squeeze bar on the sac sleeve -- and to use Superchrome ink, which of course was discontinued).  In my inventory notes, several of the Aeros (the Midnight Blue one, for instance, and the Forest Green one) don't have date codes, but I have a notation that they're post-1956 from what else it says on the sleeve.  I'd recommend checking the Parker 51 article on Tony Fischier's site (parkercollector.com) -- that's my first place to look for information on any and all Parker models.

Also, if it doesn't give a country of manufacture, how do you know it's a UK-production model?  (I have only one, the Navy Gray Aero, that is UK-production, and it says "Made in England"; all the others (and I think all the 51 Vacs) say "Made in USA").  Not a criticism, mind, but a legitimate question (because they were also made in other countries as well).

Hmmm.  The 51 Vac I got at an estate sale this morning doesn't seem to have a date code either, but I haven't really given it a good once over with the loupe yet (mind you, this would necessitate me figuring out where the loupe -- with its built-in LED light -- has gotten to... ).  Although it *does* say "1/8 14K GOLD FILLED and "MADE IN USA" on the end of the cap [capband area]; and also says "MADE IN USA" on the barrel, under the Parker imprint.

Hopefully the more expert people can weigh in on this thread.

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

 

 

Thank you, Ruth.

Tony's website is always my first place to check information on every Parker pen I come across.

However, while there is a lot of useful information there, one on some specific issues or details of certain models are either missing or presented without sufficient details.

And I have not found clear answers to my question on his 51s page/records.

That is why I posted my question here.

 

Regarding identification of country of manufacturing: based on information available on FPN (including in this thread above) as well as opinions obtained from two experienced former Parker dealers there was a certain period during 50s when UK-made 51s had both no mention of country on a cap or a sac protector inside.

Besides, inscriptions on the sac protector of my pen are exactly the ones mentioned by Mitto above.

 

[TheRedBeard]

11 hours ago, mitto said:

There was no 'press 6 times' on english made P51s. All were press 4times fillers. Also, there was no country of origin on the filler shroud of England made P51. Neither there were any instructions as to what ink to use on English made pens. 

 

And these same very characteristics identify the pens as having been made in the UK. 

 

The barrel may, however, say   'made in England' with a datecode on early to mid 1950s'pens. Also, the nibs were inscribed 'made in England' with or without a date. 

 

Later mkII / mkIII pens may have 'made in England' on the caps. 

 

Thank you, Mitto.

This pen has an inscription ".... press 4 times..." and no mention of ink or country at all.

While I have no doubts it is UK-made pen, I just wonder during what years it was manufactured.

Yes, my other P51s have "Made in England" text on their RG caps.

 

[mitto]

On 3/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, mitto said:

There was no 'press 6 times' on english made P51s. All were press 4times fillers. Also, there was no country of origin on the filler shroud of England made P51. Neither there were any instructions as to what ink to use on English made pens. 

 

And these same very characteristics identify the pens as having been made in the UK. 

 

The barrel may, however, say   'made in England' with a datecode on early to mid 1950s'pens. Also, the nibs were inscribed 'made in England' with or without a date. 

 

Later mkII / mkIII pens may have 'made in England' on the caps. 

 

On 3/21/2021 at 12:31 PM, mitto said:

There was no 'press 6 times' on english made P51s. All were press 4times fillers. Also, there was no country of origin on the filler shroud of England made P51. Neither there were any instructions as to what ink to use on English made pens. 

 

And these same very characteristics identify the pens as having been made in the UK. 

 

The barrel may, however, say   'made in England' with a datecode on early to mid 1950s'pens. Also, the nibs were inscribed 'made in England' with or without a date. 

 

Later mkII / mkIII pens may have 'made in England' on the caps. 

I may take back my statement that there was no 'press 6 times' threaded filler shroud on the UK made P51s. 

 

I have now come across - after long years of collecting English 51s and I am in posession of - a English P51 with the threaded 'press 6 times' filler that is date coded third quarter 1950.

Pictures to follow soon in a separate thread. 

[joss]

On 5/8/2023 at 10:27 PM, mitto said:

 

I may take back my statement that there was no 'press 6 times' threaded filler shroud on the UK made P51s. 

I have now come across - after long years of collecting English 51s and I am in posession of - a English P51 with the threaded 'press 6 times' filler that is date coded third quarter 1950.

Pictures to follow soon in a separate thread. 

 

Look forward to that. I have a P51 with a shortened '6 times' imprint on the Aerometric filler and indications that the pen might be made in England. The filler imprint only says: PARKER "51" // TO FILL // PRESS RIBBED BAR // FIRMLY 6 TIMES. The absence of country of manufacture is in line with the '4 times' imprinted English P51. I can not find an imprint on the barrel, unfortunately. The cap has the English "R.Gold" imprint and a halo logo (>1958) but also an early long clip (<1951). The pen was bought in England. I have classified it as Frankenpen although that does not explain the odd short imprint on the Aerometric filler. 

[mitto]

Mine is 1st quarter (not third as mentioned erroneously abobe), 1950 with clear imprint on the barrel and nib. 

Posting the pen in a  separate thread. 

[mitto]

On 5/10/2023 at 3:47 PM, joss said:

 

Look forward to that. I have a P51 with a shortened '6 times' imprint on the Aerometric filler and indications that the pen might be made in England. The filler imprint only says: PARKER "51" // TO FILL // PRESS RIBBED BAR // FIRMLY 6 TIMES. The absence of country of manufacture is in line with the '4 times' imprinted English P51. I can not find an imprint on the barrel, unfortunately. The cap has the English "R.Gold" imprint and a halo logo (>1958) but also an early long clip (<1951). The pen was bought in England. I have classified it as Frankenpen although that does not explain the odd short imprint on the Aerometric filler. 

Posted in a separate thread. Under the caption "A Special English P51". 

 

Here :