Private Reserve Velvet Black - Permanent Or Not?

[Maurizio]

My italic calligraphy is slowly improving and I really enjoy doing it. I've found that I like Clairfontaine paper best for practice; I rip it out of the pads I buy, trim the edge which attached to the wire, and print italic guidelines on it on my inkjet printer - see the Pilot Parallel Pen guidelines I've posted on the Edged Pen Forum.

 

I've tried several black inks including:

 

Noodler's Black

Noodler's Borealis Black

Sailor Jentle Black

Private Reserve Velvet Black

(I have bottles of each)

 

I have yet to try J. Herbin Perle Noir, Sailor Kira-Guru, & Aurora Black, all of which are on my list after reading many favorable comments here about those.

 

Among the black inks I have, I've found that I like PR Velvet Black best for its inky blackness. Sailor Jentle flows the best, though Borealis Black is close in viscosity and flow; Borealis is also nice & inky black, but I know it's not permanent as noted on Noodler's website.

 

I've managed to improve the flow of the Velvet Black nicely by adding 1 big drop of Aura Cacia organic vegetable glycerin to a standard size Private Reserve bottle. This does extend the drying time of the ink a bit, but it's not a problem for calligraphy because you're supposed to work in a very slow deliberate manner. So adulterated, the ink works very well in my 4 Pilot Parallel Pens, my 2 Rotring Art Pens, and my Lamy 1.5 pen, all of which I use for calligraphy practice.

 

My question is: can anyone tell me whether PR Velvet Black is permanent or not? I can't find any info on that question so I'd appreciate any input from the folks here. I'm getting to the point where I may want to try to make some pieces to save on archival paper and I'd like to know if I can use the Velvet Black.

 

Thanks for reading.

[Davros]

What do you mean by permanent? For me, part of that requirement is waterfastness, and Velvet Black isn't. It washes out into a really lovely purpley-gray, so all is not lost, but nothing remains of the original line.

[dcwaites]

What do you mean by permanent? For me, part of that requirement is waterfastness, and Velvet Black isn't. It washes out into a really lovely purpley-gray, so all is not lost, but nothing remains of the original line.

 

I am currently working on Part IV of the Newbie's Guide to Inks, and here is a preview of the section on Permanency --

 

 

 

1. Ink Permanence

I really hate the word Permanence in conjunction with inks because everybody has a different concept of what it means.

Some people take it to mean that the ink won’t fade over time, while others to mean that, if you spill water/coffee etc. on it, the ink won’t wash away. Still others take it to mean that the normal range of organic and inorganic solvents won’t fade or remove the ink. Parker, on the other hand, takes it to mean that it is more water-resistant than their washable ink, but that isn’t saying much at all.

1. Kinds of Permanency

I thought I would put down a few thoughts on the various kinds of Permanency.

1. 1. Water Resistance - This means that if you spill water on your writing that most of the ink remains and is legible. Some inks are marketed as Washable, meaning they have no Water Resistance at all. The degree of Water Resistance varies greatly, from leaving most of the ink on the paper through to being totally untouched by water.
2. 2. Solvent Resistance - After water, there are many other solvents that will fade or remove ink. Bleach is one, as is Ammonia. Inks that may be Water Resistant may be Solvent Resistant, or vice versa.
3. 3. Fade Resistance - Inks may fade over time, and there are different causes of fading. Most dyes are made from chemicals that naturally reflect UV light. Chemical changes are made to the molecule that stress it and change its colour. Other chemicals in the environment may naturally bleach the dye.

1. a) Light

Light is energy. When light hits the stressed dye molecule, it can, over time, cause the molecule to break down and revert to its original UV-visible-only colour. Red dyes are the most stressed, and tend to fade the most. That’s why red t-shirts fade fastest and old colour photographs often fade to blue monochrome.

Protecting your coloured ink writing from light is important to reduce its fading. Closing a notebook, or putting it in a closed drawer will protect your writing.

1. b ) Oxygen

Oxygen is a powerful bleaching agent which is all around us. It will fade many inks just by being in contact with it from the air. As with light, generally keeping your writing in a closed notebook or folder will minimise the contact with oxygen. If you need to display some writing, but still minimise its contact with oxygen, then mount it behind a sheet of glass.

1. c) Paper

Paper itself doesn’t fade inks, but sometimes bleaching agents left behind in cheap paper does. This is particularly true of sulphite-bleached papers, which can cause quite quick fading of inks. Parker Quink Blue-Black is notorious for fading to a teal colour when used on sulphite-bleached papers.

Edited November 24, 2016 by dcwaites

[Maurizio]

Yes I agree I wasn't specific enough; thanks for helping me ask a better question Davros and David.

 

Since I'm doing calligraphy and will be using archival (acid-free) paper, the quality I'm looking for is lightfastness. I assume that's what Noodler's means when it describes some of its inks - such as Noodler's Black - as "permanent". This is, in the Noodler's lexicon, different from the Noodler's designation of "bulletproof" which I take to mean impervious to chemical destruction by means of water, bleach etc.

 

So does anyone know if PR Velvet Black has this quality of lightfastness? I don't want to do some calligraphy on my Strathmore Bristol Smooth Watercolor paper, not too mention other even more exotic (and expensive) papers, only to have the ink fade after a year or two on a wall.

 

Thanks again.

Edited November 25, 2016 by Maurizio

[Davros]

It's not as bad as some, but the hue definitely shifts.

 

http://hudsonvalleysketches.blogspot.com/2011/10/more-ink-lightfastness-test-results.html

 

Very few dye-based inks are fully lightfast, especially under the high UV conditions of being put on a wall. (Most are fine in journals.)

[dcwaites]

Yes I agree I wasn't specific enough; thanks for helping me ask a better question Davros and David.

 

Since I'm doing calligraphy and will be using archival (acid-free) paper, the quality I'm looking for is lightfastness. I assume that's what Noodler's means when it describes some of its inks - such as Noodler's Black - as "permanent". This is, in the Noodler's lexicon, different from the Noodler's designation of "bulletproof" which I take to mean impervious to chemical destruction by means of water, bleach etc.

 

So does anyone know if PR Velvet Black has this quality of lightfastness? I don't want to do some calligraphy on my Strathmore Bristol Smooth Watercolor paper, not too mention other even more exotic (and expensive) papers, only to have the ink fade after a year or two on a wall.

 

Thanks again.

 

According to this page by Jetpens on the Noodler's inks "All bulletproof inks are also “eternal,” meaning that they are fade-resistant and archival".

 

However, if you really want to make sure, then go for the Sailor Kiwaguro nano-Carbon Black. Nano-Carbon ink has been used for over 3,000 years by the Egyptians and Chinese, amongst others, and outlasts even iron-gall ink, which gets a bit suspect after 1,000 years.

 

For real permanency though, just carve your thoughts on a nice piece of granite...

[Maurizio]

Davros thanks for the link; very informative and thiorough set of fade tests. I realize I need either Noodler's Black or a pigmented ink for permanence. Going to get some Sailor Kiwa-Guru which is a pigment ink.

[pepsiplease69]

@OP you still have a couple of very awesome inks in your 'yet-to-try' list.

 

I'd say you'll be very pleasantly surprised when you try Aurora Black. It's very dark, velvety rich, flows very nicely. Borealis black is actually a play on words and it's supposed to be an imitation of Aurora Black, but I feel it doesn't come close to the genuine article.

 

Kiwa-Guro, though a bit expensive, is going to wow you with how well it performs on everyday paper that is not of Clairefontaine quality.

 

Your concern about permanence are valid, and if you solely want to use that as your decision criteria, then Noodlers Black is probably your best bet.

[TSherbs]

 

For real permanency though, just carve your thoughts on a nice piece of granite...

Ha!

 

The tombstones in the cemetery next to my house from the mid-1700s must have been carved standard dye-based style.

[Maurizio]

pepsiplease - I'm planning on getting some Kiwa-guru this week if it's in stock at my local B & M store (Fountain Pen Hospital), but I might also try some Aurora. What can you tell me about its lightfast characteristics? Btw, interesting note about the name Borealis Black and thanks for that.

[pepsiplease69]

pepsiplease - I'm planning on getting some Kiwa-guru this week if it's in stock at my local B & M store (Fountain Pen Hospital), but I might also try some Aurora. What can you tell me about its lightfast characteristics? Btw, interesting note about the name Borealis Black and thanks for that.

I don't have a good feel for the lightfastness of any of the inks I use. I don't test for it since for me it's less of a concern. I don't purposely leave my writing out in the sun for a day or two to test as some do.

 

In general my writing doesn't fade at all so I find myself less concerned in that regard.

 

Even if some of my inks did fade, it wouldn't preclude me from using inks I enjoy, because for me the act of putting down my thoughts on paper and improving my penmanship is the real objective.

 

That's just my personal view.