Dismantling Caps.

[PaulS]

my apologies if this has been covered in recent times............

 

on some of the common pens such as W2, W3, 512 and 513 etc., there appears to be a hex. nut recessed right up in the top inside of the cap, and undoing of this should allow the clip to be removed................ but, that hidden spot seems to suffer from crud and ink and there seems so little spare room in there that getting to the spot looks nigh on impossible. I get the impression that a box spanner with impossibly thin walls might be the answer

Some brands have facility for a spanning screwdriver and some like Parker can often be undone from outside, but these Waterman's are not so obliging, so would be very grateful for any tips please. thanks.

 

[Left FPN]

I have just checked my W5's pens and a 512V pen and they have nuts retaining the clip. As you state with very little room and some crud around them, once the crud is removed, a slim box spanner will be required to release the nut. This will be a home made or modified existing tool.

 

Removal of the crud can be done with long slender picks or maybe ultrasonics.

 

Much of this will be done blind because of the location so it is not an easy task.

[PaulS]

thanks for your thoughts - I suppose there was a factory repair tool originally, if for example your pen went back to have a broken clip replaced etc., and these guys must have had something with which to remove the nut. Might try use of a little WD 40, and try to make up some form of box spanner. I did wonder if cleaning the spot, then using Araldite on the end of a steel rod so that the nut could be twisted and undone, but probably too difficult to get the Araldite to contact only the nut.

Will re-post with details if I have any success.

[Left FPN]

Clean the crud away first. Then using plasticine get an imprint of the nut. From there you can get a close idea of its size. Then source a nut spinner. Google for outlets in the UK.

[PaulS]

thanks for the advice. I've just had a look in the Waterman booklet 'Past and Present etc.', and it seems there were cap pullers for removing 'broken inner caps'................ although whether this situation applied to older pens only I'm not sure. If you peer down inside the caps on the models I've mentioned, there certainly is what appears to be an inner thicker wall in the upper half of the cap. This might of course be simply part of the machining of the whole cap, and not something that can be removed.

 

Unfortunately, the booklet mentioned isn't intended as a manual, but rather a good illustrated overview of pens up to mid 1940s.

[Chrissy]

I have a friends Man 200 Caviar that I'm trying to get back to full working order. I've so far managed to get the centre band that was missing, but having unscrewed the screw inside the cap I've had to try to glue/tape the plastic clutch insert as they are apparently impossible to find as replacements and are prone to cracking.

 

Thank goodness there was only a screw inside the cap or I would have had a similar problem with a nut.

 

I've decided that I won't be able to replace the very slightly corroded GP band next to the nib either, since they are only available with a complete nib unit.

[PaulS]

sorry to hear of your problems Chrissy - the pen you mention is not one that I know - probably because I've a leaning toward pens that, like me, are older. However, have just googled said model and it is a looker, great pen and wish you luck with the restoration. As a matter of interest, what do these fetch when they do come up for sale?

 

With the older Waterman models, the nut arrangement is not only difficult to access, but seems to have a tendency to corrode - thus making removal even more of a problem.

[manolo]

I have a friends Man 200 Caviar that I'm trying to get back to full working order. I've so far managed to get the centre band that was missing, but having unscrewed the screw inside the cap I've had to try to glue/tape the plastic clutch insert as they are apparently impossible to find as replacements and are prone to cracking.

 

Thank goodness there was only a screw inside the cap or I would have had a similar problem with a nut.

 

I've decided that I won't be able to replace the very slightly corroded GP band next to the nib either, since they are only available with a complete nib unit.

As a suggestion, try sending the pen to T&t reparaciones, in Madrid, Spain. My choice specially for Waterman and Parker, some years ago they were official TA for those brands in Spain, and they have a full assortment of parts.

[Chrissy]

As a suggestion, try sending the pen to T&t reparaciones, in Madrid, Spain. My choice specially for Waterman and Parker, some years ago they were official TA for those brands in Spain, and they have a full assortment of parts.

 

This would be something I should have to ask the owner about. I'm happy to accept nothing for buying the gold band, glueing and taping the cap clutch, and cleaning it and it's converter out of really old ink. But if it is still drying out ink because it needs a new cap clutch, then she will need to decide if she wants to send it to Spain.

[Chrissy]

sorry to hear of your problems Chrissy - the pen you mention is not one that I know - probably because I've a leaning toward pens that, like me, are older. However, have just googled said model and it is a looker, great pen and wish you luck with the restoration. As a matter of interest, what do these fetch when they do come up for sale?

 

With the older Waterman models, the nut arrangement is not only difficult to access, but seems to have a tendency to corrode - thus making removal even more of a problem.

I haven't looked to see how much a Waterman Man 200 Caviar might fetch on ebay. I suspect it wouldn't be cheap. They are a bit narrow for me. I prefer something that's the diameter of the Phileas.

[PaulS]

as a result of all the good advice on this one, I've used a 5mm hex fitting to remove the clip retaining nut on this L2 , which I'd bought for its CAL. nib, despite the pen being minus its clip. But, not straightforward - I had to reduce the O/S diameter of the hex nut remover before it would fit inside the L2 cap which like many pens post 1950 tend to be less chunky than some of the older models. In particular most things you try and push into a cap snag on the inner wall about half way down.

 

Did the same job on another slightly older and chunkier Waterman (no model No.), and this time the standard issue nut spinner fitted fully into the cap, right down to the nut, without the need for modification.................. in the pix the difference in diameter between the two caps can be seen, and it's a bit irritating to have to modify a spinner to fit the more recent pens as the actual nut is exactly the same size on both caps - both nuts fitting snugly into a 5 mm spinner. What size originally these nuts would have been no idea - almost certainly not described in metric I'm sure.

 

In the pix you can see the difference in shapes between the two clip retainers - the domed retainer is from the un-named and probably older and fatter pen, and the flat topped retainer is from the more recent L2 model.

 

My original thoughts had been to take the clip from the older pen and re-fit onto the L2 - unfortunately it doesn't work because of the slightly smaller diameter of the top of the L2 cap - so fitting the clip to this pen would mean it sits a tad too proud - so mission failed.

 

Anyway thanks for the suggestions, and a sense of achievement in being able to remove these often stubborn parts which had always defeated my efforts .

Edited November 17, 2016 by PaulS

[Left FPN]

Good job done.

[Chrissy]

Good job done.

 

Yes indeed. +1 for this.