Should My Pens Work Reliably?

[dealy663]

Hi

 

I'm a newbie here. I have a couple of pens that are probably around 20 years old. One is a Rotring 600 and the other is a Parker Sonnet. They are both in excellent condition and look fantastic. Both nibs are fine point gold and have the number 750 printed on them. When I bought these pens in the 90s I was never really able to get them to work reliably. I grew frustrated and they sat in the drawer for all these years. Now with the internet, it is possible to learn from and talk to people who are more knowledgeable (yea!).

 

My question is, are these pens decent enough that they should be working reliably? At the time, I clearly remember getting the Sonnet first and being dissatisfied with the experience. Later bought the Rotring hoping/thinking it was just a better pen. But ultimately the same types of blockage problems appeared. Is it worth the effort to try and bring these pens back to life and how hard is it to keep them functioning properly?

 

I cleaned them both with water last night. They are out drying now. The converters seem to be functioning well.

 

What is a recommended cleaning solution?

Are there any ink types you suggest that will keep things flowing?

Should I be disassembling them and cleaning once a week or so (this didn't seem to help before)?

I was not able to remove the nib assembly from body of the Rotring last night. What is the proper way to do this, are tools required?

The Sonnet nib assembly simply unscrewed. I cleaned it with water. I was a little too worried about wrecking the nib to try and remove it from the (tines?).

 

Suggestions or pointers to other web aritcles would be really helpful.

 

Thanks

[sandy101]

Parker pens work better with Parker ink. I know this is a cliche from the Parker manuals, but I've found that from the Vintage Parkers I have (P51 & Slimfold) to the modern ones (Sonnet) work easier with Parker bottled ink. My Parker didn't ike J Herbin much (dryish) and put far too much of Waterman's ink on the page - I find Quink does the job.

 

Yes, the colours are rather dull, but that's Parker for you these days. Reliable, but not exciting. Quink comes in blue, black & blue black. The blue black is probably the most interesting.

[TheRealMikeDr]

There's no excuse for any pen not to work reliably. Most pens can be tweaked to perform with little to no skill - worst case you can send it to a nib-meister for work.

 

You don't say what the issues were with your two pens - maybe that's a good starting point.

 

1) I use cold water to clean my pens.

2) Some inks flow better than others - I have great luck with Diamine/Pilot/Waterman/Private Reserve inks.

3) I would think cleaning once a week is excessive. I'm not sure what you mean by disassembling but the most I do is flush with cold water and maybe soak overnight when changing inks. Maybe once every couple months. I never remove a nib and feed.

 

All that said - there are a *ton* of reliable pens out there today in any price range.

[dealy663]

By not working reliably I mean that ink isn't flowing on to the paper when I go to write. What would happen before was that I would think everything was fine after cleaning and loading ink at home. But then when I would be out and about trying to use the pen it would work for a while and then think flow would start having dropouts. Sometimes the pen might go for a few days between uses.

 

I would typically carry the pens in my shirt pocket so the nib is facing up. Could that be part of the issue? The ink that I have at home is Waterman Florida Blue (also about 20 years old).

 

Hmm the water was warm when I washed them last night (not hot, but comfortable on the hands). Hope that didn't hurt things. The reason I was asking about removing the nib is because I can't tell if there is any blockage in the area that I can't see. I'm a bit of a tinkerer and generally like to take things completely apart when troubleshooting. The thin gold nibs however gave me pause last night.

 

I am hoping to make the pens that I have work as opposed to buying new ones. These two pens are actually pretty cool looking.

[rwilsonedn]

Welcome to FPN!

Both of these are good pens with great reputations (perhaps a bit less so for the Sonnet). Both should work reliably. So the first step is not to damage them. There is no reason to remove the nib for cleaning--you can accomplish all you need with soaking and patience. If clean, cool water isn't working, try water with just a drop of liquid dish detergent in it, or if it's handy, a 1:10 solution of household ammonia (without additives like scents) in cool water. Use the converter to flush the pen out a few times, and then fill the pen and just let it sit for a few hours, then flush a few more times. Then repeat the flushing, this time with pure water. That should probably clean the pens out satisfactorily.

If you are still having problems, there are several possibilities. One is that ink can get stuck in the top of the converter and not reach the business end of the pen. You can check by just unscrewing the barrel and looking. If the ink is all up at the top, tap the converter until it slips down to the feed. Some people get in the habit of automatically tapping their pens lightly on the side, nib-down, before they uncap them, but most pens don't require this.

There are other, fancier problems possible, but I'd suggest trying these first.

And enjoy your pens!

ron

[jar]

By not working reliably I mean that ink isn't flowing on to the paper when I go to write. What would happen before was that I would think everything was fine after cleaning and loading ink at home. But then when I would be out and about trying to use the pen it would work for a while and then think flow would start having dropouts. Sometimes the pen might go for a few days between uses.

 

I would typically carry the pens in my shirt pocket so the nib is facing up. Could that be part of the issue? The ink that I have at home is Waterman Florida Blue (also about 20 years old).

 

Hmm the water was warm when I washed them last night (not hot, but comfortable on the hands). Hope that didn't hurt things. The reason I was asking about removing the nib is because I can't tell if there is any blockage in the area that I can't see. I'm a bit of a tinkerer and generally like to take things completely apart when troubleshooting. The thin gold nibs however gave me pause last night.

 

I am hoping to make the pens that I have work as opposed to buying new ones. These two pens are actually pretty cool looking.

Good that you didn't take them apart. Generally taking a nib out should only be done when there is absolutely no other possible solution.

 

The pens should be able to work reliably but first it is important to find out what might be causing the problem. Are you using cartridges or converters?

[dealy663]

I only have converters now, but do remember that I tried converters a long time ago.

 

Both converters seem fine. One is stiffer to turn than the other but that is about it. They aren't blocked.

[Kelly G]

I agree with the opinions that these pens should be reliable. A couple of things I've found helpful with some pens.

1. At night I lay the pens flat. This helps some pens with feeds that tend to dry out a bit and I've not found it a problem most all pens.

2. Go to your local auto parts store. Buy a foot or so of 0.002" brass shimstock. Cut a 1x1" square (the foot is so you'll have a lifetime supply). Insert one corner of the shim into the breather hole on the nib and gently pull the shim down the nib slit and out the end. This "flosses" the nib, removing any dried ink or build up of foreign material. You may have to repeat this a few times to adequately clean the nib. Be careful not to twist the shim as it can damage the nib tipping material; although brass is less likely to do that.

 

I would agree with others that it is not necessary or advisable to remove the nib and feed under routine circumstance. You should only remove the nib and feed as a last resort. Anytime you start disassembling a pen there is a fair chance something will get damaged. The same goes for excess cleaning. Some of my pens are inked and used for months at a time without flushing, just re-fill and go. I flush if I'm changing ink brand and/or color; taking the pen out of rotation, or it is showing signs of needing cleaned.

 

Good luck with your pens!

[jar]

I only have converters now, but do remember that I tried converters a long time ago.

 

Both converters seem fine. One is stiffer to turn than the other but that is about it. They aren't blocked.

One of the major issues with converters is surface tension when a bubble forms and does not move freely if the converter is inverted. What happens is the bubble forms at the nib end of the converter when you carry the pen in your pocket. When you go to right and the bubble does not move you rapidly use up whatever ink is in the feed and the pen starts skipping.

 

The cures are three fold. First do a series of flushes with water with detergent added; I suggest one drop of water added to 8 ounces of water. Add the detergent to the water so you don't make bubbles. Then test using just water to see if the air bubble in the converter moves freely. If it does, ink up and go.

 

A second method is to add just a tiny bit of surfactant to the ink. Dip a wooden toothpick in detergent and then wipe it off. Stick the toothpick into the ink in the converter and pull the toothpick out. Write.

 

The third solution is to add a weighted item that will move as orientation changes. I suggest a very fine compression spring that can be threaded in through the opening. Use a compression rather than tension spring so that when you move the piston head down it collapses and does not take up much space.

[dealy663]

Ok, the idea of the bubble causing a problem never occurred to me. I'm a car guy and know a fair amount about air in hydraulic lines, and yet this never occurred to me when thinking of potential problems with ink flow.

 

I probably have some of my old surfectant from my film processing days. This is thinner than detergent as I recall.

 

The idea with the spring is also really an interesting one. I'm gonna see what happens if I don't carry the pen in my shirt pocket. Maybe I'll try one of those pen loops on the Midori Traveller I recently ordered.

 

Thanks for the tips, they sound like they have potential!

[Sailor Kenshin]

Ok, the idea of the bubble causing a problem never occurred to me. I'm a car guy and know a fair amount about air in hydraulic lines, and yet this never occurred to me when thinking of potential problems with ink flow.

 

I probably have some of my old surfectant from my film processing days. This is thinner than detergent as I recall.

 

The idea with the spring is also really an interesting one. I'm gonna see what happens if I don't carry the pen in my shirt pocket. Maybe I'll try one of those pen loops on the Midori Traveller I recently ordered.

 

Thanks for the tips, they sound like they have potential!

 

Have you tried an ear bulb to flush the pen section? I like them so much I got a few, and you aren't constantly fiddling with the converter piston.

 

Also...you might try cartridges instead of a converter, just for a change.

[ajcoleman]

You also mentioned that you are using a 20 year old bottle of ink. That should not be a problem if it was stored in a cool, dark place and tightly sealed. If it appears to have any sediment or "solids" floating in it, I would replace it. It could be growing something you wouldn't want in your pen. The other concern is that some of the water may have evaporated and the ink may be a bit thicker than intended. If you suspect this, you might try to dilute it a bit with water.

[Mangrove Jack]

Besides thoroughly flushing the pens with water, as mentioned above, you may need to floss between the tines of the nib as mentioned by Kelly G post #8.

Google "aligning pen nib tines" as this too may need to be done if the pen feels scratchy. Here is a good article worth reading http://www.nibs.com/Article6.html

 

Sound complicating but is actually quite simple and fun.

[estie1948]

The age of the pens and the ink should not be factors. For example, I have Esterbrook fountain pens I bought new as part of my school supplies back when Esterbrooks were still being made. I still have them and still use them without problems. I hate to admit it, but I didn't learn about regular cleaning of a fountain pen till I stumbled in here, so for almost all of their sixty-something years, they did not get flushed or cleaned yet they functioned just fine. The Roting 600 is a good pen, a bit heavy for my taste, but should work without any problem. I have no knowledge of the Parker Sonnet so I cannot comment about it. You have been given a great deal of very good advice. I expect you will be able to get these pens back on line and have them function for you for years to come.

 

If you fail to get satisfaction from your pens after you have done all that has been advised, you might consider getting a restored Esterbrook J with a series 9xxx nib (I like the 9550 nib). But I warn you, it will set you back anywhere from $35 to $50 if you buy from a reliable restorer.

 

-David (Estie).

[rwilsonedn]

If you dig out that old bottle of Photo Flo, take a close look at it before you use it. Over time the stuff can develop hazy blobs that are either coagulations or fungal colonies. In either case they could make a mess of the feed channels in a pen.

ron

[dealy663]

The age of the pens and the ink should not be factors. For example, I have Esterbrook fountain pens I bought new as part of my school supplies back when Esterbrooks were still being made. I still have them and still use them without problems. I hate to admit it, but I didn't learn about regular cleaning of a fountain pen till I stumbled in here, so for almost all of their sixty-something years, they did not get flushed or cleaned yet they functioned just fine. The Roting 600 is a good pen, a bit heavy for my taste, but should work without any problem. I have no knowledge of the Parker Sonnet so I cannot comment about it. You have been given a great deal of very good advice. I expect you will be able to get these pens back on line and have them function for you for years to come.

 

If you fail to get satisfaction from your pens after you have done all that has been advised, you might consider getting a restored Esterbrook J with a series 9xxx nib (I like the 9550 nib). But I warn you, it will set you back anywhere from $35 to $50 if you buy from a reliable restorer.

 

-David (Estie).

 

Well, I loaded up the Waterman ink into the Rotring 600 last night and at first everything seemed fine. However after writing less than a page the ink flow stopped. This is pretty much the kind of behavior that I remember from all those years ago. Its pretty frustrating. I've attached a photo of the writing as the ink starts to get thinner and eventually stops. This morning I twisted the plunger down on the converter until I got a few drops to come out and then it was writing again. But I don't know for how long.

 

I ordered some new ink yesterday. I will try Parker ink in the Sonnet after it arrives. The converter seems to be working properly. It has no problem pulling in ink or water, nor does it have any problem pushing it out. I haven't had a chance to try and get the materials for flossing the nib yet, or for making a bubble disruptor with a small spring.

 

As far as shelling out for a new pen, $35 to $50 for an Esterbrook it isn't a problem as both the Rotring and the Sonnet are worth considerably more than that on Ebay. But given what everyone is saying it sure seems like I should be able to make these pens work. Geez its just a pen, I build things way more complicated than this. But it sure is frustrating that something so simple has me flummoxed.

 

I'm curious about how air is supposed to get into the converter as ink comes out. I would guess that if there is no way for air to get in the eventual vacuum would stop the ink from flowing out of the converter. I don't know how this part of these pens works or where to check. Maybe I'll try the ammonia cleaning on it tonight.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Seems like converter problems....but I think you mentioned having the same problem with cartridges?

 

A second thought, perhaps you have oily hands....many do....try writing with a piece of paper under your hand for a few pages. Often the bottom third or last 1/5th of a page could be affected by hand oil.

A bit of talcum powder could work wonders....last a very long time too.

I don't have that problem, but from the way your ink seemed to diminish, it could be part of the problem.

 

The Sonnets of your era had a lot of problems....In I didn't have any, I didn't pay much attention. I have a P-75; 'the Sonnet' before the Sonnet that never seemed to be anyone's problem child.

 

So it could be your Sonnet has inborn problems.

 

the Rotering has a good solid reputation.

 

The rubber baby ear syringe is a 100% need....just fill it with medium warm water and squish though the ink channel of your Sonnet. Put the rubber bulb syringe over the 'spike' that punchers the cartridge or anchors your converter. And run water through it....shouldn't really matter if you use just fresh water or soak through the nib what ever water is in the bathroom sink....at least the first few times. The last couple of times should be clean water.

 

Then after putting the pen together, shake it like an old fashioned thermometer in a folded up paper towel. Move the nib in the towel and let sit in a cup for 6-8 hours and even more watery 'ink' will come out........one of Murphy's laws.....That's ok, and the pen will be clean enough to ink out of a bottle.....even if there is a faint tinge of color on the white paper towel, and a different color ink.

 

Converter problems are 'normal' it seems. I have mostly Piston pens. One has to buy a better converter or force a small plastic ball or spring into it to break up surface tension. Steel balls can end up blocking the out channel.

 

It can be useful to get a needle syringe for cleaning out your converter fast, or filling it that way instead of normally by shoving the nib & section into the ink....which is recommended in it helps clean the feed, by running fresh ink over it.

But a needle syringe I find helpful for at least filling the super expensive cartridges with different and even if expensive...much less expensive bottled inks. More color choices also.

 

Do explain to your pharmacist why you want the widest needle, and a good 10-12 ml syringe. Take a sharpening stone with you so he can blunt the needle....I see you are in California and have no idea how hard it is to get a needle syringe. (I have no problem in Germany.) (It could be that Pharmacist will think you weird......you are, you use a fountain pen.

Who knows he might be a user too.

 

There are rubber or rubber coated ones on line somewhere for fountain pen folks who live in the wrong place..

 

Is your Rotering a piston pen? Which Rotering

 

 

95% of scratchy is a misaligned tine or holding a fountain pen like a ball point before the big index knuckle. Hold it behind....I've full rants on that.....45 degrees just behind it, 40 at the start of the web of the thumb...or even 35 degrees in the pit of the web of the thumb.....if the pen wants to rest there.

The nib is designed to float on a small puddle of ink at those angles. Held up at 90 degrees like a ball point you have to plow grand canyon furrows through the paper with a much too small ink patch....part of scratchy......and you have to battle the fountain pen just like you do a ball point....so will become just as fatigued.

 

Held properly and lightly....using NO Pressure , there is no fatigue. Period! Just tilt it back behind the big knuckle and write the pen will soon enough find where comfortable in your hand.

 

 

In you are holding the fountain pen like a featherless baby bird, the pen will decide where it wants to rest. By 'forcing' it to stay at 45 degrees you have to use pressure and end up making baby bird paste.

If it wants to rest at 45 degrees fine, the other pen might want to rest lower. If I remember Rotering is a heavier pen, so will want to rest lower.

 

 

You need a good coated good glass 10-12X loupe....nothing bigger needed, for seeing if the tines are aligned. A do at home, trick. Press the up tine from the breather hole down under the low tine, for 2-3 seconds three-four times....should do the trick for scratchy.

If you buy cheap on Ebay.....later you will have to buy again....but better cheap once than never. A good triplet loupe is a once in a life time buy, and good for hallmarks, stamps or coins also....for splinters a must.

After you buy your next pen, get better loupe.

 

If you notice there is no ball point coms.....in ball points are boring. We are having kindergarden fun with our box of 64 crayons of ink, different patterns of nibs on decent paper....where papers can make inks look completely different.....a bit for later.

We are here....having fun.....

Edited November 8, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[ac12]

Where in Calif are you?

If you are in NorCal, try to come to one of the SF Pen Posse meets in Millbrae. There usually is at least one guy who can take a look at your pens. Check the Clubs section for announcements.

 

I would NOT put PhotFlo into the ink. Tinkering with that is a last resort. It is too easy to make the ink toooo wet.

 

Do NOT disassemble the section when you clean. You can damage the feed, and you WILL wear the feed.

Using a bulb syringe and soaking overnight is my recommendation.

If you have a hard clog, cleaning will be more of a chore to do and take more time.

In regular use, cleaning once a month or two months is adequate

If you won't use the pen for more than a week or so, empty and clean the pen. You do NOT want ink to dry in the pen, as dried ink can clog the pen and make it difficult to get the ink flowing again. Tip; dried RED and PURPLE inks have been the hardest for me to clean out of a pen, taking up to 3 weeks to clean.

 

When the pen starts to not write, is it consistently at the bottom of the page? If so, I suspect as BoBo said that hand/arm oil might be the problem. If so try a piece of paper between your hand/arm and the writing paper, to block the hand oil from getting onto the writing paper.

 

BTW, I used Waterman blue in my Sonnet and had zero problems.

[Sailor Kenshin]

Well, I loaded up the Waterman ink into the Rotring 600 last night and at first everything seemed fine. However after writing less than a page the ink flow stopped. This is pretty much the kind of behavior that I remember from all those years ago. Its pretty frustrating. I've attached a photo of the writing as the ink starts to get thinner and eventually stops. This morning I twisted the plunger down on the converter until I got a few drops to come out and then it was writing again. But I don't know for how long.

 

I ordered some new ink yesterday. I will try Parker ink in the Sonnet after it arrives. The converter seems to be working properly. It has no problem pulling in ink or water, nor does it have any problem pushing it out. I haven't had a chance to try and get the materials for flossing the nib yet, or for making a bubble disruptor with a small spring.

 

As far as shelling out for a new pen, $35 to $50 for an Esterbrook it isn't a problem as both the Rotring and the Sonnet are worth considerably more than that on Ebay. But given what everyone is saying it sure seems like I should be able to make these pens work. Geez its just a pen, I build things way more complicated than this. But it sure is frustrating that something so simple has me flummoxed.

 

I'm curious about how air is supposed to get into the converter as ink comes out. I would guess that if there is no way for air to get in the eventual vacuum would stop the ink from flowing out of the converter. I don't know how this part of these pens works or where to check. Maybe I'll try the ammonia cleaning on it tonight.

 

Every one of us is confident you can get these pens writing again.

 

Two more pieces of wizardry to recommend: a small ultrasonic cleaner and Rapido-Eze. They cleaned ten years' worth of INDIA INK from vintage Osmiroid nibs I got from fleabay.

[sidthecat]

Should my pens work reliably?

I should hope so, but sometimes they don't. My car should work reliably, too, but sometimes it doesn't.