400 And 600 Nib Difference?

[Alexandra]

I have experience with the 200 steel nib (f) and the 400 gold nib ground to Namiki Falcon fine by Richard Binder. I am considering buying a new Pelikan as my beloved 200 with the 400 nib has been lost for some time and I still miss it. Yes, it is grievous to lose a favorite pen. The 200/400 is comfortable in my hand but I think a 600 would be also. I would like input from those of you who have both pens. Could you share your experience with the feel of each nib... the similarities and contrasts? Priced as Pelikans are I will not be buying another one soon and want to make the best educated choice I can. If there is no real difference in feel between the two nibs I will buy the 400 as I know it is a good fit.

 

Thank you in advance for your input.

[pajaro]

I have a M600 broad nib in an M200. It fits, and the cap screws all the way down with no issues. The nib writes nicely, but it is not detectably different from an M400 broad nib. It's nice, but I got the nib for $60 on ebay, which I thought was a favorable price. I have the impression the M600 is a bit wider a pen than the M400. The M600 nib is slightly longer, but not much, as it fit into one of my M200 pens, a gray marble pen. The EF and F M400 nibs I have are very nice and smooth.

[Alexandra]

Do you find it to be springier or just as hard as the 400?

[sargetalon]

I don't find any appreciable difference between the modern M400 and M600 nibs of today. Performance and characteristics are identical to my hand.

[Alexandra]

I don't find any appreciable difference between the modern M400 and M600 nibs of today. Performance and characteristics are identical to my hand.

Thank you, that's very helpful.

[jar]

There is also the older 600 that is the same size as the 400.

[Alexandra]

There is also the older 600 that is the same size as the 400.

...I'm already tempted toward vintage mania...and now...I know about....

[jar]

...I'm already tempted toward vintage mania...and now...I know about....

From right to left: an M200, M400 and M600 then a modern blue M600, M800 and M1050.

 

http://www.fototime.com/2565805F35DD5E2/large.jpg

[MsRedpen]

I don't find any appreciable difference between the modern M400 and M600 nibs of today. Performance and characteristics are identical to my hand.

+1

 

I have both M400 (M) and M600 nibs (F), indeed no difference in the feel or writing experience, apart from the expected line width.

Though, 600 size pen fits my hand better, but that's very individual.

[Bo Bo Olson]

Modern 400 & 600 are semi-nails. Fat and blobby.....good to be turned into stubs or CI's.....don't waste money on a modern Oblique nor tying to turn a semi-nail....nor 'true' regular flex into an Oblique.

For an Oblique that dances....the '50-65 era nib is the only way to go.

 

I like the girth and good balance of a posted medium large 600. It's in the P-51 class for balance.

 

I have a '50's 400 semi-flex B on mine, in I like a livelier nib.

In 99.4% of the folks being ball point barbarians, don't know any better.....a monotone gold nib if semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex is the way to go......and even if someone say's where's the two-toned bling nib??? Who cares? The better nib is on the pen.

 

a 200's nib would be OK too, IMO better....in it's thinner 1/2 a size like a '82-97 no ring M400, and would be a springy 'true' regular flex nib like the semi-vintage M400.

The steel nib only costs @$27 or so...gold plated more.

 

I have come to like 'true' regular flex nibs.....once I was a semi-flex snob.

Well, still am for oblique.

[Alexandra]

From right to left: an M200, M400 and M600 then a modern blue M600, M800 and M1050.

 

http://www.fototime.com/2565805F35DD5E2/large.jpg

That's quite a size difference between the old and new 600s. The 1050 and 800 are definitely too big for me and the new 600 possibly is.

[Alexandra]

I have come to like 'true' regular flex nibs.....once I was a semi-flex snob.

Well, still am for oblique.

You are definitely not a ballpoint barbarian!

 

The 200 nib is pleasurably springy and it certainly is a workhorse. Perhaps I instead of a 600 I can get a couple more 200s...new line of thought forming. Yes, I think I need a couple more pens ...to keep me company whilst I search for the right vintage 600 of course.

Edited October 18, 2016 by Alexandra

[Alexandra]

Shortly after the last post I was able to find a vintage 400 brown tortoiseshell with an extra-fine nib. The nib really is superior to the modern 400 nib. I'm in love Thanks for the advice.

[carlos.q]

Shortly after the last post I was able to find a vintage 400 brown tortoiseshell with an extra-fine nib. The nib really is superior to the modern 400 nib. I'm in love Thanks for the advice.

 

We all love happy endings...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Congratulations.

'50-54...400?

-55 400n?

'56-65 400nn?...................all of these could be semi-flex or maxi-semi-flex there is no marking. You just have to check it vs a well mashed 3 X 200's nib.

If it spreads it's tines with half that pressure it's semi-flex.

1/4th = maxi-semi-flex.

Remember all three are part of the 3X max tine spread set....like the 200 also or the no ring M400.

 

or a 83-96 M400 no ring?.....82&97 they didn't make tortoise. This would be a nice springy regular flex....'83-90 W. Germany a tad better than '90-96 Germany.

 

My 400n turned out to be a 400T ....transition 400...Wagner and 400 marked on barrel, cap and nib the nib was marked (which it was not on the '50-54).....tortoise semi-flex B...nib now on my 605. Well at least it stayed tortoise.

 

I also have a 500 ('52-54) in tortoise, (Rolled gold cap and piston cap) but that is a maxi-semi-flex OBB or OBBB not marked but that is a pure signature nib....one you need half a page to sign your name.

 

My '90-96 W.Germany 400 is a darker tortoise than the two early '50s I have.

 

I do count my self lucky to have three tortoise pens....

 

I'd never in my life even thought about the $$$ 500/500n/500nn.....until it was there on German Ebay the very day my Grail Pen money burnt a hole in my pocket and I was followed home by a crumb hungry flock of 5 Pelikans and a Pelikan pen stand.

 

Some day...we should be so lucky as to get a '30's full tortoise.

[Alexandra]

Now Bo Bo you're speaking a Pelikan language I haven't yet learned, I'm not familiar with 400nn.

 

According to the seller: NIB: Stamped 14K 585 Pelikan. Nib is also stamped EF (extra fine). The seller indicated it was made in the 50s but I wouldn't know how to confirm this.

 

Excuse the poor ebay photo.

 

I was able to find this snippet online and it looks to be the very pen save for mine is tortoise.

 

The nib does this with little effort and feels similar to a c.1930 Waterman semi-flex nib that I own. It is certainly a soft nib with a pleasing feel.

Edited October 27, 2016 by Alexandra

[Christopher Godfrey]

Congratulations on your new acquisition, Alexandra! You will love using your vintage Pelikan and, as Sargetalon has often pointed out here previously, they hold a ton of ink. The nibs are incomparable, as far as I am concerned!

 

Regarding the 400/400N/400NN, don't worry too much: you are unlikely to run into an N model, for they were only made for a year. Think of the 400 as having squared-off ends, very slightly domed, and the 400NN as having really domed ends (big and rounded). The N model looks exactly in-between. You will find comparison photos on some of the historic websites and I think Rick Propas even has same comparison on his Penguin website?

 

Enjoy this new one: it is fairly easy to predict that you will be acquiring more of them...

[Bo Bo Olson]

Yours is a 400NN......And a Tortoise.....that's stepping out smartly.

 

Depending on how the piston is set up....the Pelikan 400nn is the one that holds the most ink. Some folks have measured 1.97 ml.....others less. There are posts on that.

A normal 400=@127, 600/800-@1.37 and the giant 1000=1.47ml.

An MB 149=1.60

There are Sheaffer cartridges with 160....and one of the piggy back international cartridges holds 0.74.....don't know how much a long Pelikan cartridge holds....but would bet @1.40 or so.

 

We use to have flame wars with Waterman....your Pelikan got a fat nib...ours is skinny...we can change ours....you can't. Our Big Pistons Hold So Much More ink.....then the truth came out and the myth died.

Well it also came out Waterman made two nib sets....one narrower than Pelikan and one the same exact size. :lticaptd:Except EF was narrower on Pelikan than on either of the Waterman's.

That was on an old obsolete pre '98 chart.

 

That was from before '98 when Ham Fisted Ball Point Barbarians forced Pelikan to become 1/2 a width wider, semi-nail and with a big blobby nib tip, because the Barbarians kept holding a fountain pen like a ball point!!! Bending the nibs so much most companies went over to Barbarian proof nibs.

 

It didn't all come out at once....none of us knew as much as is known today. You can learn something new every day for years about fountain pens....then it becomes something every week. Inks are the same.....and I almost consider my self a 'noobie' with paper....even if I have a slew of papers. I am ignorant there. I will of course learn....there are no tests....no stress of having to learn....now....sometime next week works just as well. That way learning is fun.

 

I keep saying I'm going to weigh my green stripped 400nn before I ink it....but always forget.

 

I for a while thought I had a 400n....in it had the 400 on the cap ring....but I looked at my 3 '50's 400's and sigh....it was a 400....transitional. The 400N has a longer cap than the 400's....the piston cap is just slightly 'rounder'.....real slightly. I had thought because of the 400 on the cap ring and over use of my imagination...thought the cap was a tad rounder than it was.

It's a tortoise and that counts.

 

I had at first a tortoise standard sized M400 from '90-96.....and it took me about two years to make the decision that the medium-large 400nn is the slightest tad better balanced......

 

All in all the 400nn is one of the better pens ever made....holding a lot of ink....even if it's not thicker than the other 400's.

The medium-large 400nn is about the same size as the medium large P51 or 600....it is just thinner than the thicker girthed 600.

 

The Pelikan Toledo is Pelikan's top of the line pen......out of my range even on my 'good' days.

I had seen an occasional picture of one or the other 500's shown here....but never ever even thought of looking for one....then that Grail Pen money burnt a hole in my pocket.

 

I am under the impression that the '51-54 500's were all Tortoise. I could be wrong.

The 500 is a rolled gold cap and piston cap tortoise that was Pelikan's second best pens.....the 500n & 500nn do not have the rolled gold piston cap.

There is a solid and a fully rolled gold pens too. They are much more seldom than the Toledo. I've only seen one Toledo in real life....the owner was very proud of it.

Only seen my 500 in real life ....but we don't have a Pen Posse here.

 

Unfortunately my Computer died....and as a Zombie half my pens and half my inkwells vanished, or I'd show you what a 500 looks like.

 

Perhaps one of the others here who own a 500 or 500n/nn could be so nice and show you.

 

I'm glad you like the nib....I that era's nibs.

Edited October 29, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Alexandra]

Wow, you guys really know your stuff. What a wonderful thing it must be to have achieved Pelikan mastery. I'm years from it but I'm definitely developing a sense of brand loyalty and an itching for a true collection. Over the years several pens have gone AWOL but the Pelikan is the one I still miss. And they're just so...solid and I don't know...they feel good. I think I'm on my way to being a Pelikan snob. I should flush my other pens as they're destined for neglect. The more I use this pen the more I like it. And you're right, Bo Bo. It holds a surprising amount of ink. I noticed that on the first fill. And Christopher, I'll admit that no sooner had I inked it up and took it for a drive did I think I ought to get on ebay and start looking for another one. I restrained myself but will doubtless give in before long.

 

I'd love to see a 500 if anybody has one to show off.

[carlos.q]

 

 

I'd love to see a 500 if anybody has one to show off.

 

Try here: https://www.pelikan-collectibles.com/en/Pelikan/Models/Revised-Piston-Fillers/400-Basis/index.html

 

This is only a page from Dominic Rothemel's site for everything Pelikan. Great resource.