Pilot Nibs And Quality Control

[bone215]

Pilot pen owners,

Has anyone, since December 2015, purchased a Pilot fountain pen worth over $50 USD and been disappointed in the nib's quality and ability to function properly?

Just curious, as I have worked my way up from $3 Pilot 78Gs all the way up to Custom 74. I purchase mostly M nibs and some F nibs.

In this case the F nib of the 74 sucked, after 9 months of off and on frustration, I am sending it to a nib expert to smooth it out and fix the ink flow issues.

Every other Pilot pen has been (and remains) flawless right out of the box.

 

What's up with that?

 

Anyone else experience this?

 

Regards,

 

[ehemem]

One disappointing nib out of how many?

 

The only Pilot nib that I had a problem with was on a second-hand, fairly expensive pen with a fine nib. The tines were just slightly out of alignment and turned out to be an easy finger fix. Nothing I would blame Pilot for.

 

So, what is the problem with the fine nib on the 74?

Edited September 10, 2016 by ehemem

[macaddicted]

I destroyed the feed on my 74 years ago because of poor flow. Sending it out is a good thing. I think flow has been a problem for a while. I seem to recall seeing something here that the pens are set for use in Japanese character writing. IIRC the pauses to reposition the nib allow the feed to catch up.

[parnesh]

Out of 6 or 7 pens, the only pen that was not up to standard was an old faceted VP with an M nib. All new pens have been excellent. They however do not work universally the same with different inks. I have a lot of Iro ink this seems to invariably find it self into Pilot pens. With drier inks (think Pelikan) and some very saturated inks, I have encountered flow issues and skipping.

[bizhe]

I bought a decimo from Japan several years ago. At first the nib was too dry and I was utterly dejected. Then I did some reading, and found that this was probably intentional, as suggested above. A dry nib can be made wetter, but the consumer will have a hard time making a too wet nib drier. Anyways, I carefully flexed the nib, making short flexed lines, testing after each flex. The nib got wetter and smoother, and is now one of my best nibs.

[Gsak]

Had a couple medium pilot nibs arrive scratchy or dry but never had issue with fine pilot nibs. probably just chance. For unbeatable value, I am ok with mass production falling short from time to time. Japanese mass production still seems to be the best in the world...

[Algester]

Its still best to never regard everyone has an absolute 100% nib quality control or else the pens will never get out of the factory but then again different people has different degrees of wants either... So I cant blame you for that unless if it doesnt writes at all

But 3 pilot pens so far and they have been very reliable... Except that the CON-70 is very picky about the inks it drinks... It seems to never like saturated "thick inks" like Sailor

Edited September 12, 2016 by Algester

[JunkyardSam]

YES!! Here are my Pilot purchases over the last year (not counting Penmanships/Metropolitans/Prera)

 

Pilot Falcon SEF

Pilot Falcon SF

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Black

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Yamaguri

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Yamabudo

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Tsukiyo

Pilot Custom Heritage 92 Transparent

Pilot Custom Heritage 912 WA

Pilot Custom Heritage 912 FA (returned pen due to nib problems)

Pilot Custom 823

 

I discovered some interesting things... There was a period of time in recent years where Pilot punched "cost cutting holes" in the hidden part of the nib! This is not my photo but just like the one on the left:

 

http://imgur.com/hS0FuCu

 

What's interesting about it is... The PCH91s I bought vary in age. The older one has no hole.. And most of the fairly recent ones had holes. But the newest one had no hole!!! So Pilot started cost-cutting in the nib's gold --- but then stopped. (Going by date codes on the nibs.)

 

Now to address your original question -- YES!!! MOST of my Pilot Pens required adjustment upon arrival. In fact, ONLY my 823 arrived in perfect working order.

 

But the good news is -- for most of them the adjustment was SIMPLE:

 

Remove the nib. Insert an index card between the tines for a few minutes. Test the pen. If it's not wet enough, do the same. Sometimes I would sort of work the index card gently to spread the tines.

 

In all cases this improved the flow in my pens to the point they feel like my 823 (which arrived working flawlessly out of the box.)

 

The nibs themselves were all smooth -- what I'm saying is the tines were so tight that ink had difficulty flowing through them.

 

To TEST this, write with a little bit of pressure on your downstroke. If you suddenly get the amount of ink that feels correct it means your tines are too tight and restricting flow. You can use an index card, 35mm film, brass shims, etc.

 

HOWEVER........ Some inks are straight up designed to work with tines that have a visible gap between the tines. Noodlers Polar Brown is just one example where Tardiff said, outright, that the ink won't work well in pens without a visible gap. (None of my Pilots arrived with a visible gap.) My Waterman inks (Inspired Blue & Audacious Red) also have the same issue. If you optimize a pen to work with an ink like this it will likely become too wet with wetter inks like Sailor or Iroshizuku!!!

 

So what I do for my Japanese pens is -- gentle widening of the tines if necessary, but only testing with Pilot ink. NOT heavily saturated boutique inks.

 

To get my Noodlers inks to work well in these Japanese Fs and EFs I dilute them with distilled water (10%-30%) and then add a TINY bit of Dawn Liquid Dish Soap as a surfactant. This has worked 100% of the time.

 

Sorry for such a long response --- but based on my purchases I suspect there are many people out there using Pilot pens with overly tight tines who could have a MUCH nicer writing experience if they just flossed their tines a bit.

 

PS. I'm not even suggesting a significant widening -- my Pilot pens still have either no visible gap or a barely visible gap. They're just not AS tight as before, which allows the ink to flow better.

 

PS #2. I did have to return the PCH912 FA. That nib was not easily fixable... it has *significant* babys bottom and I wasn't going to attempt to fix that in a way that might void the return policy. Many people report that the FA pens tend to have a slow feed -- but some of them also have very significant babys bottom in addition to that which causes terrible hard starts. In my case -- the pen could NEVER "cross a T." That side stroke would fail 100% of the time... I mean the FA would fail even with no pressure. Very disappointing.

Edited September 13, 2016 by JunkyardSam

[jpierson]

I have over a dozen Pilots from Metros to a couple 845s. All have been perfect. I use them for western writing and Japanese. The key is matching the ink to the pen. I have not had to make a single adjustment.

[CatHerder]

Fairly minimal experience, I have a custom heritage 912 soft fine and a pair of metropolitans, one medium and one fine. All worked perfectly out of the box (using Pilot iroshizuku ink, which may be a factor)

[CatHerder]

Fairly minimal experience, I have a custom heritage 912 soft fine and a pair of metropolitans, one medium and one fine. All worked perfectly out of the box (using Pilot iroshizuku ink, which may be a factor)

[Olya]

YES!! Here are my Pilot purchases over the last year (not counting Penmanships/Metropolitans/Prera)

 

Pilot Falcon SEF

Pilot Falcon SF

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Black

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Yamaguri

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Yamabudo

Pilot Custom Heritage 91 Tsukiyo

Pilot Custom Heritage 92 Transparent

Pilot Custom Heritage 912 WA

Pilot Custom Heritage 912 FA (returned pen due to nib problems)

Pilot Custom 823

 

I discovered some interesting things... There was a period of time in recent years where Pilot punched "cost cutting holes" in the hidden part of the nib! This is not my photo but just like the one on the left:

 

http://imgur.com/hS0FuCu

 

What's interesting about it is... The PCH91s I bought vary in age. The older one has no hole.. And most of the fairly recent ones had holes. But the newest one had no hole!!! So Pilot started cost-cutting in the nib's gold --- but then stopped. (Going by date codes on the nibs.)

 

Now to address your original question -- YES!!! MOST of my Pilot Pens required adjustment upon arrival. In fact, ONLY my 823 arrived in perfect working order.

 

But the good news is -- for most of them the adjustment was SIMPLE:

 

Remove the nib. Insert an index card between the tines for a few minutes. Test the pen. If it's not wet enough, do the same. Sometimes I would sort of work the index card gently to spread the tines.

 

In all cases this improved the flow in my pens to the point they feel like my 823 (which arrived working flawlessly out of the box.)

 

The nibs themselves were all smooth -- what I'm saying is the tines were so tight that ink had difficulty flowing through them.

 

To TEST this, write with a little bit of pressure on your downstroke. If you suddenly get the amount of ink that feels correct it means your tines are too tight and restricting flow. You can use an index card, 35mm film, brass shims, etc.

 

HOWEVER........ Some inks are straight up designed to work with tines that have a visible gap between the tines. Noodlers Polar Brown is just one example where Tardiff said, outright, that the ink won't work well in pens without a visible gap. (None of my Pilots arrived with a visible gap.) My Waterman inks (Inspired Blue & Audacious Red) also have the same issue. If you optimize a pen to work with an ink like this it will likely become too wet with wetter inks like Sailor or Iroshizuku!!!

 

So what I do for my Japanese pens is -- gentle widening of the tines if necessary, but only testing with Pilot ink. NOT heavily saturated boutique inks.

 

To get my Noodlers inks to work well in these Japanese Fs and EFs I dilute them with distilled water (10%-30%) and then add a TINY bit of Dawn Liquid Dish Soap as a surfactant. This has worked 100% of the time.

 

Sorry for such a long response --- but based on my purchases I suspect there are many people out there using Pilot pens with overly tight tines who could have a MUCH nicer writing experience if they just flossed their tines a bit.

 

PS. I'm not even suggesting a significant widening -- my Pilot pens still have either no visible gap or a barely visible gap. They're just not AS tight as before, which allows the ink to flow better.

 

PS #2. I did have to return the PCH912 FA. That nib was not easily fixable... it has *significant* babys bottom and I wasn't going to attempt to fix that in a way that might void the return policy. Many people report that the FA pens tend to have a slow feed -- but some of them also have very significant babys bottom in addition to that which causes terrible hard starts. In my case -- the pen could NEVER "cross a T." That side stroke would fail 100% of the time... I mean the FA would fail even with no pressure. Very disappointing.

Which date code does your latest Pilot 91 have, which doesn't have the cost cutting hole?

[Budzynski]

I've got a 78G and Custom 74, both had some problems, the 74 had to be sent back because of severe baby's bottom. 78G was fixed by me, I had to increase the ink flow and realign tines

[Bluey]

I've got a 78G and Custom 74, both had some problems, the 74 had to be sent back because of severe baby's bottom. 78G was fixed by me, I had to increase the ink flow and realign tines

I would say that babys bottom is relatively rare on Japanese pens. It's typically very common on German pens such as those by Lamy, Pelikan, and many made by Bock such as Kaweco, seemingly due to their obsession with having smooth nibs. (there's no point in having a smooth nib if it's going to skip all the time).

Just an observation, but many Japanese pens appear to have their tines too tight. Perhaps there's a cultural reason.

Edited September 13, 2016 by Bluey

[bone215]

ehemen

 

Thank you, I am a Pilot fan boy, I love all my Pilots, its just the most expensive one was a disappointment.

One disappointing nib out of how many? One out of Seven

So, what is the problem with the fine nib on the 74?

inconsistent flow, scratchy erratic nib, line width variation at the nib's whim

[bone215]

macaddicted

 

I destroyed the feed on my 74 years ago because of poor flow. Sending it out is a good thing. I think flow has been a problem for a while. I seem to recall seeing something here that the pens are set for use in Japanese character writing. IIRC the pauses to reposition the nib allow the feed to catch up

 

That makes sense in a way. Thanks.

I sent it out. I hope to be very happy with the nib adjustment. I really like the pen.

[bone215]

parnesh,

 

 

Out of 6 or 7 pens, the only pen that was not up to standard was an old faceted VP with an M nib. All new pens have been excellent. They however do not work universally the same with different inks. I have a lot of Iro ink this seems to invariably find it self into Pilot pens. With drier inks (think Pelikan) and some very saturated inks, I have encountered flow issues and skipping.

 

Yes, I would agree that Pilot pens will let you know if the ink is not to its liking and yes, Iro inks and Pilot pens is a very nice combination.

Thanks,

[bone215]

bizhe

 

The nib got wetter and smoother, and is now one of my best nibs.

 

Yes, when the Pilot nib is done correctly they are very nice. I have 6 that were out of the box perfect. I guess I got spoiled, I was not ready for the most expensive purchase **** not as good as the rest.

I hope that after the nib work, the pen becomes a proper contender for F nibs in my modest collection.

[bone215]

gsak

 

Japanese mass production still seems to be the best in the world...

 

 

Yes, probably still true.

[bone215]

algester

Thanks.

 

junkyardsam

Thanks.

Flossing of nibs is one of the first things that came to my mind also, and yes it was done with brass shim however, no good results in this case.