Twsbis On Cheap Paper

[TylerLi]

Hi everyone,

 

I am very new to fountain pens and new to this forum as well (first post). I have one Pilot Metropolitan and two bottles of ink (Pilot Blue and Noodler's Black). All the paper I use is just cheap stuff or whatever the school gives me to use. For my next pen, I would like to choose either a TWSBI Eco or the Diamond 580. I didn't want to go with the Lamy Safari because I am scared I won't like the grip and afraid that the nibs would be too thick for cheap paper. Anyways, I have learned that TWSBI extra fine nibs are very fine and many people are reporting scratchiness. I have gone on the Nib Nook and saw that the fine and extra fine look about the same. People are also saying the the fine is very smooth. However, I have heard that the TWSBI nibs are not very consistent, sometimes you'll get thick or skinny, depending on your luck. What do you guys think? Should I go with Safari, 580 or Eco? What nib sizes?

 

Thanks in advance for the replies!!!

Edited May 25, 2016 by TylerLi

[Sasha Royale]

I think that writing with the fingers-extended, relaxed grip, and a light touch, the irregularities of the section won't matter much. It is the ballpoint pen "death grip" that finds every rough spot to irritate your hand. Also, sharper nibs scratch the paper more than wider nibs. Writing with the "ball" of the nib is smoother than writing with the tip.

 

School paper is often not fountain pen friendly. There may not be a good fountain pen remedy.

[Jamerelbe]

I have not yet gotten a scratchy EF nib from TWSBI - and I have 3 of them! They do give a little more 'feedback' as you write, though, compared to the F nib. I can't comment with as much authority on the latter - I only have one! - but in my experience the F and M nibs do provide a smoother writing experience. The paper you're using, though, is likely to feather and bleed in proportion to the amount of ink you lay down - so you have to consider the trade-off between smoothness (broader nib) and suitability for poor paper (finer nib).

[TylerLi]

I have not yet gotten a scratchy EF nib from TWSBI - and I have 3 of them! They do give a little more 'feedback' as you write, though, compared to the F nib. I can't comment with as much authority on the latter - I only have one! - but in my experience the F and M nibs do provide a smoother writing experience. The paper you're using, though, is likely to feather and bleed in proportion to the amount of ink you lay down - so you have to consider the trade-off between smoothness (broader nib) and suitability for poor paper (finer nib).

But would you say that the line width of the fine is similar to the extra fine as it appears on Nib Nook?

[Jamerelbe]

I have a 580 with a F nib, and my experience is that it's marginally wider and a little bit smoother. There's not a lot in it, but it *is* discernible. Personally, I think the F is just a little more pleasant to write with than the EF - but you'll need to make sure you're using an ink that's not too prone to feather (Noodler's Black or X-Feather, for example).

[dk76]

I have the following TWSBI's:

 

3 Classics, F, all about the same in width.

 

1 580, F, this seems finer than the Classics, however, ink may play a role as I haven't compared then with the same ink.

 

1 Eco, M, relatively thick line, I will equate this to my Lamy Al Star F.

 

2 Eco's, EF, very fine line. One seems to be extra toothy. But not scratchy.

[Fuzzy_Bear]

My 580 with a F nib have feedback with Texas Bluebonnet but is much smoother with Red Belly Black.

 

580 with M nib is smooth with just about anything.

 

ECO with 1.1 soon if perfect with the Texas Bluebonnet.

 

To an extent, it is finding the right ink for that pen. Some inks are better than others in a particular pen.

 

And I write on everything from damp cheap copy paper to the high dollar stuff. I drive a school bus and do maintenance during the day and maintain a DB in the evening. I've even written on wood. Not a good idea.

Edited May 26, 2016 by Fuzzy_Bear

[ac12]

The TWSBI EF should be about the same as a Lamy XF.

I have both, the tip of my TWSBI EF measures 0.024 inch, the tip of my Lamy XF measures 0.025 inch. A 0.001 inch difference, which is easily accounted for in manufacturing tolerance. So they are the same.

Now how they lay down the ink is different, cuz you get into other factors.

If one pens write wetter than the other, it will have a wider ink line.

 

My TWSBI EF was a bit scratchy when I got it. But I adjust almost all the nibs of all my pens when I get them, so it did not bother me. I adjusted the nib, and now it is a nice smooth writer.

 

Note that the feeling of scratchiness is affected by the standard 4 writing variables

- pen

- ink

- paper

- writer

Making a change to any 1 variable can change how the pen feels; from smooth to scratchy, from scratchy to smooth

 

Where in Calif are you?

If in Northern Calif, try coming to the SF Pen Posse in Millbrae. Check the clubs section for meet annoucements.

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/308709-pen-posse-memorial-day-weekend-edition/

Edited May 26, 2016 by ac12

[Witsius]

I had a TWSBI extra fine. It was pretty toothy. I found the fine to lay down almost the same width of line as the extra fine, but it was noticeably smoother.

 

In my experience, a Safari fine is going to be just a hair finer than a TWSBI medium. They are really very close in width. I also think the TWSBI nibs are generally smoother than Lamy's Safari style nibs. I have a 580, but if you want a $30-$40 pen, I would go with the Eco over the Safari. As I understand it, Jowo makes TWSBI's nibs, so you should get the same quality nib on the Eco and the 580. If interchangeable nib units are important to you, then get the 580. The Mini would also be a good choice if you want something that fits more comfortably in a shirt pocket.

 

I would say that from my experience, I have found TWSBI's nibs to be pretty consistent. My wife and I both currently have medium 580 nibs, and they lay down the same line width.

[RudyR]

Cheap paper feathering is more related to choice of ink than to who produces the pen. Yes larger nib points do aggravate the problem but the best way to deal with this problem is to either not use a fountain pen or to use a ink known to NOT feather.

 

As always I recommend a good Iron Gall ink for it's anti-feathering capabilities. There are others inks that feather less, but I can always depend on IG inks when using cheap/office paper. Modern Iron Gall inks are perfectly safe to use in a reasonably quality pen. Modern materials can withstand the higher acidity of this type of ink. Also modern IG inks are less aggressive than their predecessors.

Edited May 30, 2016 by RudyR

[RudyR]

geez, just noticed this is about nib performance in general and not about its performance on cheap paper.

 

My TWSBIs have been consistent but relatively unexciting to write with. But then, Few can approach the writing enjoyment ( for me) of using my Pilot 823 and MB149. So I am spoiled. But when it comes to writing anywhere safely (like on a moving bus) the TWSBI is hard to beat. Bend the nib because of a hard bump? Get a new nib for cheap in a few days and slap it on in no time. Lose the cap when it rolls off the Foot ferry and into the seawater? Call TWSBI and get a replacement.

 

No one can and has beaten the TWSBI company as far as customer support is concerned. For instance, I lost a part on my Sailor M and it took a trip to Japan and 6 WEEKS to get it back. The same goes for just about any Japanese pen and most Italian pens. Try to replace a bent nib and its going to take a trip to the Nibmeister or back to the country of origin to replace to.

 

I buy TWSBIs for those facts and for the pure enjoyment of watching a tank load of ink slosh around on a bumpy bus or pitching foot ferry.

[pedrosette]

I have to say: my Eco does not like cheaper paper, and nearly glides on the good stuff.

 

That is not true of all my fountain pens. Interestingly, only my Pilot Prera and my two Vanishing Points (especially the one from 1968) take whatever is thrown at them. All three are fines. Have not yet tested my CH92 FM, but both Custom 74s with F nibs I have clearly prefer better paper.

 

I am quite happy with Eco. When I bought the Prera I thought a supersized Prera would be hard to beat and after the Eco I'm afraid the 580 might come close to this ideal pen. Naturally I speak as someone who's rather a writer than a collector.

[Mikeal]

I find the Eco 1.1 is what I would like to use daily, but cheap paper at work and feathering keeps me to using a fine. It still feathers. But it is fairly smooth even then.

[Xenter]

My Eco with EF works great with cheap paper, but it feathers depends on the type of ink I use really (Noodler's 54th tend to feather on cheap paper with the Eco). But I love my Eco and it's definitely my go to pen on cheap copy paper I get at school.

[IndigoBOB]

My Eco with EF works great with cheap paper, but it feathers depends on the type of ink I use really (Noodler's 54th tend to feather on cheap paper with the Eco). But I love my Eco and it's definitely my go to pen on cheap copy paper I get at school.

 

 

Though it has been a long time since someone replied, thank you for this answer, cuz it is the only one that addresses which nib is best for cheap paper. I was wondering this same thing as I have Noodler's black which works well with cheap paper, but using my M nib on the TWSBI laid down a broad to double broad like line and though my guess was the Extra fine Nib, I have had apprehensions of going that fine since my preference is a Broad nib Clairefontaine paper with Iroshizuku Tsuki Yo which feathers much on cheap paper.

[stephanos]

First of all, I would take the Eco over the 580 - it's really hard to go wrong with the Eco.

Second, if your preference is Broad, then you should go for a Fine, not an Extra Fine.

Third, inks will of course make a difference, but I have written with an Eco-with-Fine-nib on institutionally-purchased printer/copy paper and not had any problems.

 

Finally, an observation based on a recent trip to the US: I needed to buy paper whilst there and all I could find was inexpensive red-covered own-brand student notebook paper (side-glued notebook, lined, three punched holes, tear-our sheets) from CVS, a pharmacy/convenience store that operates in the Atlanta area and perhaps beyond. Given its provenance, my expectations were very low, and yet I found myself able to use pens with both Japanese and Euorpean Fine nibs on that paper without any problem. Even a slightly bouncy vintage pen worked quite well. I used Diamine forest green and Aurora black in the modern pens, and Lamy petrol in the vintage pen. I don't write with much pressure, which probably helped. This limited sample reinforces my view that a Fine-grade nib would probably work just fine.

[ac12]

 

 

 

 

Though it has been a long time since someone replied, thank you for this answer, cuz it is the only one that addresses which nib is best for cheap paper. I was wondering this same thing as I have Noodler's black which works well with cheap paper, but using my M nib on the TWSBI laid down a broad to double broad like line and though my guess was the Extra fine Nib, I have had apprehensions of going that fine since my preference is a Broad nib Clairefontaine paper with Iroshizuku Tsuki Yo which feathers much on cheap paper.

 

I think one of the guidelines for "cheap" paper, is a NARROW nib (F or EF).

But you can also do this with a DRY M nib.

In fact a DRY M nib would do better than a WET F nib.

 

The goal is to put down as little ink as possible, so the ink won't feather or bleed though.

 

To that goal, you should also be putting very little to NO pressure on the pen.

More pressure on the pen = more ink flow.