Does Patina Have Much Value Over Polished?

[Sallent]

Gold alloys and silver will return to the same patina after a while as before they were cleaned, but bronze and brass will never look quite the same after being polished off, so I would not touch those metals of thats what the trim is made out of

Edited April 19, 2016 by Sallent

[JonSzanto]

Sorry if I riled you with my comment. You seem anxious to engage in an argument. Perhaps I did miss the broader topic at hand. The OP mentioned obtaining a HR pen with a sterling silver overlay that was patinated. Was that not the point of the question? He also mentioned nibs. Regardless, I readily admit that polishing and plastics/celluloid and hard rubber etc is a sticky subject. But there are degrees of polishing and appropriate techniques. And it need not be anywhere near the extent that would damage imprints or features of a pen. Hopefully, the op would entrust the pen to someone who knows what they are doing, barring which nobody is suggesting he lay into a makeshift buffing wheel on a drill in his basement. Metal components are quite well served by many polishing products that, when carefully used, need not pose a threat. That's the op's call whether or not to undertake the task - hopefully, hopefully if the pen has any value in it, either intrinsically or from what he paid for it, he'll decide after considerable research, and ultimately decide to send it on to someone well versed and respected in pen restoration. In my mind it is the HR element that posses the biggest issue as to whether or not to clean/polish the pen.

 

Yes I do feel it's folly to push value of patina on a metal object, given that it will always return after being cleaned. As for the strength of my analogy to musical instruments, you must not be a brass player. Keeping a brass instrument (usu. copper, raw brass or silver) shining is a losing proposition. That's why players have them gold plated or lacquered.

 

I don't want to muck up your message by chopping it up, but in order:

1. Nah, not riled at all.
2. Nah, not wanting to argue. I think both of us are just putting things out there in a straight-forward way without frills and lace around them.
3. The OP talked about the general question for two paras and then brought up the overlay pen in the last paragraph. I took it, along with the other previous replies, to be a topic generalized on the degree of pen restoration appropriate before one ends up removing the history (patina) of a pen.
4. For the most part, you and I agree. I think the most salient point where we might not be aligned is the perception of value. In my case, I don't have drop-dead issues something being mildly spruced up, but I am very aware that to others it can be a deal-breaker (in vintage sales). If for no other reason than that, I feel quite comfortable speaking up in a pretty stark manner if people new to the hobby/interest seem to not be aware of such issues. It may be "folly" to give value to patina, but it is worse to assume that people don't do that, because they do. I can't change that.
5. As to the brass players, they are pretty much to my left and directly in front of me. In fact, the horn section, my good buddies when they aren't blowing their brains out (backwards!), and I have had many chats about the provenance of their instruments, and of all the brass players, they are the most prone to be in camps between polishing or not polishing their horns. Of course, they've got their hand up the bells, too! The best one is our newest: she's a killer player, and plays a horn whose bell interior is coated with some hi-tech colored lacquer. Her horn quartet all has them this way, in differing colors. Her's is hot pink. I kid you not. And she sounds like a goddess!

[inkandseeds]

You can always polish something, you cannot put patina back once it is polished off. I have not seen/heard of anything that will duplicate decades of natural oxidation. Simple task, polish a penny and see if you can get that old brownish look back.

 

The other thing as has been said is polishing removes metal. The important thing is anything that is raised will gradually be worn down first. It is those raised parts that you want to protect from wear. Once you loose detail, it is lost forever.

 

Maybe i have known too many shady people in my life, but there are a number of ways to fake patina if you want to. I was curious about faking patina and did a quick online search. I found several different methods.

 

I think it gets down to what do you want the pen for and what looks best to you with the caveat ac12 listed that you are slowly removing material. I have a copper pen that i can't decide whether it looks better with or without patina.

[sidthecat]

I like a bit of patina myself, it denotes life experience.

 

I'll observe that the collective opinion of "Antiques Roadshow" is that polishing off an original surface is a terrible thing to do to an antique.

[Cryptos]

Knife aficionados are not averse to forcing a patina on a blade. Quite easy to do too.

[PaganArcher]

Knife aficionados are not averse to forcing a patina on a blade. Quite easy to do too.

 

Some aren't. Myself, I am opposed to it in all but a few examples. My axes get a forced patina as rust prevention. But my knives earn it. Knives I restore retain as much of the original patina as I can preserve because to me, that patina is the physical sign of the "soul" of the item. Each mark has a story to tell and I can't help but wonder what memories they represent.

[Garageboy]

Overpolished pens suck - everything is shinier than when the pen came new, the metal trim has detail knocked away - and in extreme cases, I had a sheaffer balance so polished, the gold roll came undone at the edges

[kapanak]

Patinas are aesthetically appealing to some, and repulsive to others. Collectors may value patinas much more than users. Purists also would prefer the age-based patina over polished look. It is really a matter that is entirely subjective and depends on personal preference.

 

I do the following normally, and this applies to me personally, on swords and daggers, pens, vintage cameras, etc:

 

Silver and gold layers should be lightly polished with the jeweler's polishing cloth, but nothing as extreme as simichrome and microfiber cloth intensive polishing.

 

Bronze should be wiped and polished with just a microfiber cloth or polishing cloth and nothing more.

 

I hold no personal opinion on plastics polishing.