Ebay & Amazon Prices Going Down On Some Pilot And Platinum Models

[DustyR]

Has anyone noticed current eBay and Amazon prices on some Japanese pens going down? New Pilot C74s around $80 and Platinum Centuries almost that low. Does this signal upcoming model changes?

Edited April 11, 2016 by DustyR

[bobje]

Rachel and Brian Goulet made an interesting observation the other day. They said Amazon was to small online retailers what Wal-Mart was to brick-and-mortar stores. Since eBay prices are set independently, and most of these Amazon prices on pens are set by independent sellers under the Amazon umbrella, it doesn't sound like a conspiracy. But the long-term consequence would be less choice for the consumer. Pilot and Platinum need to make their prices uniform globally.

[MCWB]

Pilot and Platinum need to make their prices uniform globally.

 

Actually I think you'll find they don't...

[kapanak]

I have purchased a number of Japanese pens while on a trip in Japan, as well as several inks, and let me tell you, the prices are far from uniform. Some of the items I acquired new were 1/2 to 1/3 retail price in North America, and many were barely if at all available here at all.

[KKay]

That is a shame. If we pay that much more here in the USA, imagine what Europe pays, it is worse. They would sell more pens if they treated us comparatively to their own country, price wise. (global price)

[Mastiff]

I did hear that the Japanese Yen is going strong.

[ppdiaporama]

A couple of weeks ago I put a few pens in my shopping cart because their price was low ... since then, every day when I log in a price change alert ... for example ... I've seen a red falcon with a broad nib go from 135C$ to 185C$ then now at 160$. .... A Sheaffer Taranis go from 60C$ to 48C$ to 91C$.

 

Some price changes are just a few cents ... probably tied to currency fluctuations.

[Frozz]

No sorry you don't and would never see a uniform prices around the world as firstly due to the FOREX then there are taxes which in their own are not uniform thus rendering the price fluctuation among the retailers in different countries, then you got small things like shipping, middle man, distributors etc etc..

 

it's the same for European / american brand fountain pen being sold here. they are at least min 20% higher than when purchase from said country/ online seller (including shipping) for the same reason as above.

(except for pelikan in my case as HQ is in my country and their prices are fairly competitive)

[Ernie Wayne]

You can track the difference in prices at Amazon here --

 

http://camelcamelcamel.com/

[Pensei]

Rachel and Brian Goulet made an interesting observation the other day. They said Amazon was to small online retailers what Wal-Mart was to brick-and-mortar stores. Since eBay prices are set independently, and most of these Amazon prices on pens are set by independent sellers under the Amazon umbrella, it doesn't sound like a conspiracy. But the long-term consequence would be less choice for the consumer. Pilot and Platinum need to make their prices uniform globally.

I would be curious to know, and I mean this sincerely, if people think this means it is in some sense "wrong" to buy a pen from Amazon or Rakuten at a lower price than a vendor such as Goulet Pens? From this distance it seems that Goulet is doing well, and many people feel than their price is worth what one gets in terms of service and assistance. Businesses are under constant pressure: if Amazon is a threat to what I guess we could call the Mom and Pop online dealers, those dealers have already wiped out almost all the local stationery shops. I would like to think that the independent online dealers would thrive, and if Amazon is doing something unfair, I would like to know.

[Mastiff]

I would usually buy pens from authorised dealers or through FPN, unless I am looking for pens that have been discontinued and cannot be had through these means, in which case I will look at ebay (I haven't tried Amazon).

 

I don't think Amazon can be blamed in anyway. We (well most of us) live in a free market society and the price is an important factor in deciding on a purchase. Yes, service is important (and that is why I would buy from ADs) but only to a reasonable extent, and only in conjunction with competitive pricing. Usually ADs can match or offer acceptable level of prices for pens. If a small business cannot offer low enough prices (note, not the lowest) PLUS service, they will perish. May sound harsh, but earning other people's money isn't easy- as we all know first hand.

 

I wouldn't worry so much about less choice for consumers. There will always be plenty of competition at multiple levels, in a complex way that we cannot even understand- another beauty of free market economy and capitalism.

[bobje]

It isn't just an exercise in foreign exchange. Beyond the exchange fluctuations across markets, there are substantial differences in prices across markets. If Pilot wants to level the playing field for its smaller online retailers, it needs to recognize that low prices in Japan for the same pen model sold in Europe or the USA are tough on smaller online retailers. Right now, consumers are just taking advantage of arbitrage opportunity across markets, because they can. It isn't really their fault, and it isn't the fault of Goulet either. The only player that can really even this out, if it wants to try, is a global player like Pilot. A Pilot Europe rep engaged in a very fair and transparent discussion over the issue in January. URL below. The reasons for price disparity across markets are many and varied, but ultimately the cross-geo levers on pricing come down to the company distributing the product.

 

http://penpaperpencil.net/pilots-reply-regarding-pricing-in-the-uk/

[TSherbs]

... If Pilot wants to level the playing field for its smaller online retailers, it needs to recognize that low prices in Japan for the same pen model sold in Europe or the USA are tough on smaller online retailers.....

 

Why should Pilot want a "level playing field" for anything?

[kapanak]

 

Why should Pilot want a "level playing field" for anything?

 

I was going to ask that. Why would they want a level playing field? They are selling their pens no matter where it is selling. I understand all the points regarding the small dealers like Goulet Pens having more educational materials and bringing brand awareness, but it doesn't hurt or affect Pilot directly. Whether a small online dealer sells a pen, or a seller from Japan ships one to a buyer under the customs radar, it is a sale on Pilot's books.

 

From the article of the Europe Distribution, my takeaway was that the price changes occur at the distributor and further at the dealer levels. Pilot makes the same profit from selling to a person in Japan as it does selling to the American distributor (or less I would assume), so any price leveling on their part is not only questionable in terms of whether it is doable or not, but also would reduce profits.

 

A boutique like Montblanc or Pelikan or any other boutique luxury brand (not necessarily a fountain pen maker) can usually play the level playing field game because they have sales at their own boutiques and such. For example, an LV bag in Canada is priced the same at the base level as in Hong Kong, once you take into account currency exchange and taxes and shipping, but larger companies, mass producers, usually don't have the same luxury of depending on small luxury boutiques for their sales.

 

Just my two cents, I have no idea what I am talking about.

Edited April 16, 2016 by kapanak

[shawndp]

Kapanak makes an excellent point - why should Pilot care about what happens at the retail level - they record a sale in their books one way or the other. I recall reading a post in the main forum a while ago where a known Amerian retailer said that the local distributor carries a lot of sway over the prices they can buy inventory at. So, it would seem that it is more of a case of the distributor working with the retailer to smooth out prices or else they both lose the sale to a pen sourced from another distrubutor / retailer pair... Just browsing some of the US prices of Japanese pens sends me running to "overseas" sellers - it doesn't matter if I buy off a US / Japanese / Dutch / Spanish website - they are all equally foreign sellers to me.

[bobje]

Pilot cares what happens at the retail level because retailers need to make money by selling their product. In a given market, the retailer is governed by minimum prices, below which they cannot go. However, if the minimum in one market is much, much lower than the minimum in another market, then some retailers cannot win. The consumer can easily see this arbitrage opportunity. Pilot and other companies need to minimize arbitrage opportunities across markets, if they want to keep retail outlets around. Pilot price strategy, distributors, retailer selection, the way the product distribution model works in various markets and types of channels -- these are the responsibility of Pilot.

[ICantEvenDecideAMajor]

That is a shame. If we pay that much more here in the USA, imagine what Europe pays, it is worse. They would sell more pens if they treated us comparatively to their own country, price wise. (global price)

it's just that when they bring pens into the U.S., there's so much that goes into it: trademarking, safety regulations, separate marketing, translations, customs (not the kind that stops an individual package every now and then and slaps on $20); they have their own US distribution through Pilot USA, etc. The behind the scenes is crazy.

So I try to do my part buying locally but sometimes the pen costs more than a small piece of satisfaction of the conscience...

Edited April 17, 2016 by ICantEvenDecideAMajor

[TSherbs]

Pilot cares what happens at the retail level because retailers need to make money by selling their product. In a given market, the retailer is governed by minimum prices, below which they cannot go. However, if the minimum in one market is much, much lower than the minimum in another market, then some retailers cannot win. The consumer can easily see this arbitrage opportunity. Pilot and other companies need to minimize arbitrage opportunities across markets, if they want to keep retail outlets around. Pilot price strategy, distributors, retailer selection, the way the product distribution model works in various markets and types of channels -- these are the responsibility of Pilot.

Why should Pilot worry about "some retailers not winning"? Sorry, maybe I am thick, but I just don't see why you think that Pilot is making a bad decision. Do you have any idea if the brand has been losing sales or losing profits? Brian and Rachel Goulet filmed a visit to the Pilot USA distribution center. They seemed pretty happy to me and very complimentary of the company. They don't have to sell Pilot products if they don't think that it is in their best interest. And Pilot doesn't have to change anything about their policies in order to prop up some small retailers who can't make it work.

[Drone]

Regarding the issue of high U.S. vs. Japan prices for Japanese pens like Pilot...

 

I don't mind paying more to a U.S. retailer given reasonable costs associated with shipping, duties, and U.S. distributor mark-up (retailer mark-up doesn't count because Japanese vs. U.S. retailer mark-up is comparable). But when I see a 100% (or more!) mark-up in the U.S. compared with a Japanese retailer's price - alarm bells go off. Pilot and/or their U.S. exclusive distributor Pilot USA is getting greedy. It can't be the shipping & insurance and it can't be the tax and duties, I understand those costs. I'm a U.S. citizen and business owner living and working in Asia.

 

Now... It's a free market, and people can get as greedy as they want - but that doesn't mean I have to buy from them - not any more thanks to globalization and the unstoppable arbitrage it brings with it. Pilot should understand, you can game the system - for awhile, but sooner or later the system will level the playing field again. That's what free markets do (provided there is no collusion and/or corruption).

 

There is nothing Pilot can do to maintain this unbalanced situation - not as long as Pilot sells pens over the counter in Japan without doubling the price (and destroying their domestic market in the process). As long as people can buy the pens in Japan, the pens will find their way to the U.S. at a reasonable mark-up, and it is next to impossible for Pilot or their U.S. distributor to do anything about it.

 

I happily buy from the likes of Goulet Pens - I've been a customer of theirs since they first opened. But when it comes to the Japanese pens, the mark-up is too high to justify. So I buy direct from a trusted retailer in Japan. Like most I read about, I have had good service from Japanese retailers. They can get pen models you can't buy outside of Japan at lower Japanese prices, and they stand by the warranty. EMS air shipping with tracking from Japan to anywhere in the world is fairly quick and surprisingly cheap.

 

Presently there is no way to tell if the large mark-up is due to Pilot, their exclusive U.S. distributor, or both. But let's assume Pilot isn't marking-up the pens by an outrageous amount, then the large mark-up must be coming from the exclusive U.S. distributor. (Keep in-mind, we know the large mark-up isn't being levied independently by the competing U.S. retailers). If this is the case, and Pilot actually wants to normalize prices in the U.S., then Pilot has two paths it can follow: 1) Pilot sets the terms of the exclusive distributor's agreement so that Pilot determines the resale prices in the U.S., not the distributor; and/or 2) Pilot revokes the current U.S. distributor's exclusivity and names one or more competing distributors.

Edited April 17, 2016 by Drone

[shawndp]

it's just that when they bring pens into the U.S., there's so much that goes into it: trademarking, safety regulations, separate marketing, translations, customs (not the kind that stops an individual package every now and then and slaps on $20); they have their own US distribution through Pilot USA, etc. The behind the scenes is crazy.

So I try to do my part buying locally but sometimes the pen costs more than a small piece of satisfaction of the conscience...

 

This sort of is my point about "buying locally" - there is much discussion on this board about that very concept... Problem is, as a Canadian, the moment you are sourcing your product through Pilot USA / an American retailer, it is no different than buying from a Japanese retailer or a European one... Canada Customs doesn't differentiate if the pen is coming from Japan or the US and would apply duties uniformly and shipping a pen back for warranty isn't any more or less complicated to any international destination.