Resac A Waterman C/f Converter?

[Ron Z]

Then you use a #12.  The 14 was an "if" so that you wouldn't have to do it again.   How tight is the #14?  Is it a "no way!" tight, or an "almost" tight?  Tried with or without talc on the outside?   There is a #13 sac, but the #12 is more likely to fit if "no way" tight.

 

No J bar.  There isn't room inside.   They used the sac to push the bar back up. 

 

One suggestion that I would make is to put a good coating of talc on the sac before you put it in.  The talc will make it easier to slide in, and will also give a bit of a barrier between the sac and the metal.

[PithyProlix]

4 hours ago, Ron Z said:

Then you use a #12.  The 14 was an "if" so that you wouldn't have to do it again.   How tight is the #14?  Is it a "no way!" tight, or an "almost" tight?  Tried with or without talc on the outside?   There is a #13 sac, but the #12 is more likely to fit if "no way" tight.

 

#14 is *no way* and, yep, I always use talc.

 

4 hours ago, Ron Z said:

No J bar.  There isn't room inside.   They used the sac to push the bar back up. 

 

 

Good to hear that I am not missing anything. It makes a lot of sense to use a PVC sac in this case since it is more rigid than latex. 

 

Thank you very much for the useful reply! 

[Ron Z]

7 minutes ago, PithyProlix said:

It makes a lot of sense to use a PVC sac in this case since it is more rigid than latex. 

 

It also means that you won't have to replace it again when you can use one.  Glad the information was useful.

[PithyProlix]

On 1/19/2024 at 1:34 AM, PithyProlix said:

On 1/18/2024 at 9:26 PM, Ron Z said:

Then you use a #12.  The 14 was an "if" so that you wouldn't have to do it again.   How tight is the #14?  Is it a "no way!" tight, or an "almost" tight?  Tried with or without talc on the outside?   There is a #13 sac, but the #12 is more likely to fit if "no way" tight.

 

#14 is *no way* and, yep, I always use talc.

 

Sorry, I am wrong! I was able to push in a talced #14 sac with a dowel. *Just* fits. Never had a sac with such a tight fit.

[PithyProlix]

One more note - I tried to complete the converter restoration today.

 

I mounted a latex #14 sac because I didn't want to bother with ordering a PVC one from the US. A latex sac seems to hold the pressure bar in place, no problem. The problem is that the added diameter from the sac makes it impossible (seemingly, to me at least) to fit the bushing in the neck of the converter case/sleeve. 

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

On 1/26/2024 at 4:29 AM, PithyProlix said:

One more note - I tried to complete the converter restoration today.

 

I mounted a latex #14 sac because I didn't want to bother with ordering a PVC one from the US. A latex sac seems to hold the pressure bar in place, no problem. The problem is that the added diameter from the sac makes it impossible (seemingly, to me at least) to fit the bushing in the neck of the converter case/sleeve. 

 

How did you get it in? I am dealing with this issue now. A size 14 seems like the right size, even a bit small (plenty of free space in the main area of the converter), but I can't get the bushing back in because the nipple is nearly the same diameter as the neck of the converter. Adding a sac to that makes it impossible to get in.

 

I am thinking of just saving down the nipple in order to get it to fit but I am hoping there is a better solution. I am guessing Waterman used a thin-wall sac for these.

[PithyProlix]

12 hours ago, LoveBigPensAndCannotLie said:

 

How did you get it in? I am dealing with this issue now. A size 14 seems like the right size, even a bit small (plenty of free space in the main area of the converter), but I can't get the bushing back in because the nipple is nearly the same diameter as the neck of the converter. Adding a sac to that makes it impossible to get in.

 

I am thinking of just saving down the nipple in order to get it to fit but I am hoping there is a better solution. I am guessing Waterman used a thin-wall sac for these.

 

I'm stumped on this one. If I remember correctly there was ossified sac residue in the back of the converter sleeve but not on the bushing, so there was no clue there. I would love to see one of these converters with a good original sac. Hopefully one day I will find one of these converters with a good sac locally. 

 

I ended up leaving the sleeve off - i.e. gluing the sac to the bushing without the sleeve/presser bar - and I squeeze the sac with my fingers.

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

7 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

 

I'm stumped on this one. If I remember correctly there was ossified sac residue in the back of the converter sleeve but not on the bushing, so there was no clue there. I would love to see one of these converters with a good original sac. Hopefully one day I will find one of these converters with a good sac locally. 

 

I ended up leaving the sleeve off - i.e. gluing the sac to the bushing without the sleeve/presser bar - and I squeeze the sac with my fingers.

 

On mine there was a fair bit of sac almost fused to the bushing, but I got it all after a good amount of scraping.

 

I am wondering if when these were made they placed the sac in first, and then used some kind of machine to compress the bushing around the plug and sac to make it tight. There were absolutely no remnants of shellac on the connector so I think it was held in with pressure alone.

 

If so, I don't think it would be possible to properly re-sac one of these without expanding the metal somehow and then recompressing it around the new sac.

[cat74]

On 1/18/2024 at 8:44 AM, PithyProlix said:

 

Per my response yesterday, a #14 sac does not fit. I currently don't have a smaller sac. I measured the inner diameter of the case at 5.1mm, so, fingers crossed, a #12 sac should fit.

 

I am trying to restore one now. This is all I've got. Should there be a J bar or some other spring mechanism, please?

 

 

I just received a CF with a dead converter. I hope to revive it too!

How were you able to remove the nipple? Figure I would start there before ordering a sac!

[PithyProlix]

On 1/16/2025 at 11:06 PM, cat74 said:

I just received a CF with a dead converter. I hope to revive it too!

How were you able to remove the nipple? Figure I would start there before ordering a sac!

 

It's been a while and I'm not sure if I am remembering correctly but I probably heated it with a low power heat gun - the idea was to make the nipple more pliable - and then I probably used my section pliers to pull it out. I do remember it wasn't very easy.

 

But make sure to read back through this thread. I think it might require a proprietary sac that has thin walls where it goes on the nipple - there's not enough space between the bushing and the nipple for a regular sac (which is the main reason it is difficult to pull out the nipple - it's a very tight fit there).

[LoveBigPensAndCannotLie]

I used heat and also inserted a piece of little wooden skewer that had approximately the same diameter as the opening of the converter and wiggled it out with section pliers. The skewer/dowel helps you get a better grip and also minimizes the chances of crushing the opening of the converter. That being said, your luck may vary - I tried the same with a Parker converter and had a much harder time.

 

6 hours ago, PithyProlix said:

I think it might require a proprietary sac that has thin walls where it goes on the nipple - there's not enough space between the bushing and the nipple for a regular sac (which is the main reason it is difficult to pull out the nipple - it's a very tight fit there).

 

+1, agree with this. I also have not been able to figure this out. There's basically no sac nipple, the diameter of the "plug" is the same the entire way through. I've just had mine laying around in my parts pile, been using cartridges instead.

 

The converter I worked one was a "newer" one from the 1980's though, not a C/F one. So maybe the C/F ones are configured a little bit differently and maybe easier to resac.

[cat74]

right now I have it soaking. The sac in there was hard and maybe full of dried ink, not like the few petrified sacs I've come across that just crumble

[Nightjar]

I've just discovered that my Dad has one of these, sac degraded, I'd like to fix it... first challenge will be dissembling converter, I will follow very helpful advice above (rod inserted in hole, heat, pliers, gently wiggle wiggle). And I see that even if that's successful, fitting sac is difficult: okay, I'll cross that bridge if and when I reach it.

 

Hope it works, because the best eBay currently offers is a single empty cartridge for £20!

[PithyProlix]

18 hours ago, Nightjar said:

I've just discovered that my Dad has one of these, sac degraded, I'd like to fix it... first challenge will be dissembling converter, I will follow very helpful advice above (rod inserted in hole, heat, pliers, gently wiggle wiggle). And I see that even if that's successful, fitting sac is difficult: okay, I'll cross that bridge if and when I reach it.

 

Hope it works, because the best eBay currently offers is a single empty cartridge for £20!

 

It was too difficult for me - I gave up. It needs a very thin-walled sac, at least on the bushing side. I ended up shellacking a normal sac onto the feed - just squeeze to fill - works fine.  

[Vintagepens]

The correct sac size is #14 latex. 
PVC sacs are thicker and not suitable.

The problem is that once the sac is mounted on the plug nipple, the assembly is too large to fit into the housing. Using a smaller sac won't change this.
Procedure therefore is to cut the sac to length, put it into the housing, then insert the plug so that it goes into the sac and into the housing end at the same time.
 

The pressure bar appears to have been originally attached to the sac with something resembling hot melt glue.

[PithyProlix]

10 hours ago, Vintagepens said:

Procedure therefore is to cut the sac to length, put it into the housing, then insert the plug so that it goes into the sac and into the housing end at the same time.

 

Thanks for the info.

 

How do you insert the plug without it pushing the sac further back into the housing? Perhaps fold over the sac opening back onto the outside of the housing, them trim off the 'extra'? Sorry, I just don't see how else to complete this procedure successfully - from my perspective the tolerances are just too tight.

[Nightjar]

Fixed it, thanks to advice above. 14 sac cut to size, shellaced to nipple of plastic piece; rod through plastic piece into sac, well-talced; squeeze-bar placed at bottom (hold it horizontal, so bar sits right by gravity); sac pushed in using rod, then continued pushing plastic piece in. Doesn't properly fit, last part of sac rumples up and extrudes from join: so trimmed, sanded a bit, layer of shellac. Seems to work.

 

Not sure why anyone interested in pens would want this though! Shoddy piece of bling with characterless nib, in my view. (A decade or so inked in a drawer, now there's deep pitting in the gold-plated inlay adjacent to the nib... don't see that sort of thing with older Watermans, aka real Watermans!)

 

[Oh, and I found some sensibly priced C/F cartridges on eBay. Which will be handy, because I've also got to fix my Mum's Ligne 60, which I think (?) is a silly absorption filler... better replaced with C/F cartridge, which I think (?) will fit. Nice nib on the Ligne 60, and pleasing mid-century design.]

 

 

[Vintagepens]

On 4/20/2025 at 6:15 AM, PithyProlix said:

 

Thanks for the info.

 

How do you insert the plug without it pushing the sac further back into the housing? Perhaps fold over the sac opening back onto the outside of the housing, them trim off the 'extra'? Sorry, I just don't see how else to complete this procedure successfully - from my perspective the tolerances are just too tight.

You cut the sac so it will be of the correct length. Only if it is trimmed too short will it be possible to push it back into the housing.

[PenLovingE]

Resurrecting a dead topic because I was able to resac one of these and wanted to share my steps. 

 

1. I dipped the nipple section in water just off the boil for about 20 seconds. Then I put a toothpick in the whole, so as not to crush it, and use some pliers to pull the nipple out. 

2. I then carefully scraped old sack off of the metal section and the nipple section. I think this is the step that people are missing the most because, once I got everything clean, there was plenty of clearance for a new sack. 

3. I decided on number 14 silicone sacs for longevity. I cut the sack down about half a millimeter below the neck. I then installed the sack, save for the top millimeter or so, into the barrel. 

4. I place the metal bar into the barrel and got it into position. 

5. I applied shellac to the nipple and then use that millimeter or so that was sticking out to place the nipple into the sack. I then sort of pushed and wiggled the nipple and sack back into the barrel. They all sort of came together at the same time once I push the nipple all the way in. 

 

Feel free to reach out if you have questions. It ended up being a pretty straightforward installation!