Which Nib Manufacturers Tip Their Pens The Hardest?

[Iso*]

Hellloooo,

 

So I was wondering which nibs have the hardest tipping. I have seen people loosely claim the fact that fountain pens can last an entire lifetime, but I know so well that they do not. The tipping is bound to be worn down to some degree.

 

I would like to know, for those of you that stick to just 2-3 pens in your fountain pen usage, which pens seem to have their writing qualities unchanged after prolonged and heavy usage? Which pens are the most resilient in not having their writing properties change?

 

I say so because I am looking for a pen and/or nib that is tipped extremely hard, or at least hard enough so that I don't have to regrind it every few weeks or so. I typically write with modern IG's/more acidic inks on rougher paper. This unique combination usually wears down my nibs, especially Lamy nibs. I'm very particular how my pens write, and all of them are somewhere between a needlepoint and a Japanese Extra Fine.

 

It seems that Lamy ~13USD nibs are tipped somewhat soft. But at the same time, I've been using a Pilot Custom (PILOT FK-700R-B-EF) with an EF nib with IG inks on about the same paper, and it does not seem to change its writing properties, even after a year's usage. How do you guys weigh in?

Edited December 28, 2015 by Iso*

[tinta]

You may be able to gather some anecdotal evidence about how long a particular brand's tipping seems to last its user, but I doubt that any nib manufacturer would share their own data on tipping hardness.

Depending on the frequency of use, non-tipped nibs can last decades & quality tipped nibs (stainless or gold)), a heck of a lot longer.

I would not see the need to regrind a nib unless you wish to change its character (to an italic, perhaps).

[Bo Bo Olson]

especially Lamy nibs.....???

As far as I know all nibs are @ = in hardness. There are different rare earth mixtures and have been since the teens....each company then tried to make a better tipping at a cheaper price. Chunks would fall out...or with enough wear chunks would break out.

Before WW2, all nib tipping was somewhat lumpy, scratchy...compared today.

In WW2, tipping was perfected. World wide.

 

 

This is the first time I've heard Lamy nibs wear out faster. I have had a factory tour.

 

The reason why a nib will last you a life time, instead of 7-10 years of the days of One Man, One Pen, is you will own so many of them, you can't wear them out.

I'd suggest getting some writing paper instead of sandpaper you use.

What is it?

Many will need to avoid it.

 

The ink don't matter. Be it IG or not....many inks were IG for decades from the dip pen days. It don't cause more wear.

 

Good paper...and if you use IG ink you might want it to shade...you need 90g paper outside Rhoda and a great 70g t-something river Japanese paper. 80g printing paper don't shade.

 

Good to better paper than 90g paper, only costs a couple cans of Coke or cups of Starbuck's coffee.

Coke and overly expensive see and be seen coffee is bad for you. Especially Starbucks, in it puts weight on....all those brownies.

 

I'd avoid that re-cycled stuff, no one knows what is in it....cardboard boxes, old cereal boxes with slightly poisonous printing ink. That stuff should be printer only.

 

Writing is 1/3 nib width&flex, 1/3 paper and 1/3 ink and in that order.

Then comes how heavy you are writing...writing lighter can let your nibs live a bit longer.

How much grinding/polishing of the nibs do you say you are doing often...because you are using sandpaper?

That is why you are wearing out the Lamy nib...

Once a nib is smoothed to a butter smooth, that newer users think they have to have....it should be good for years at butter smooth.

But you are using sandpaper.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Bo Bo Olson

[Iso*]

I mainly write on two types of paper - one is in a Canson sketchbook (see reference below), and the other is Strathmore's 25% cotton writing paper. The finish on this paper is a rather gently cockled finish. My annoyance with satin-like finished paper is that they are too smooth and don't provide enough feedback to the nib... My pressure is usually very light, no more than 50 grams of pressure is applied to the paper, average is about 35 grams of pressure, with a high angle of elevation, about ~63 degrees off the page.

 

I use nibs that produce lines within the 0.18-0.21mm range . Extremely fine nibs are my preference, essentially a needlepoint. Even the smallest removal of nib tipping makes a nib scratchy, which is particularly annoying when I have to smooth/re-tune a needlepointed nib every few weeks, but this might be an isolated incident. I have apparently dulled a Platinum Deskpen, the KDP-3000 to the point of tipping shape deformation through daily usage.

 

Furthermore, I use only two or three pens daily, and I write perhaps about 800+ words every day along with a slew of equations for my studies divided up approximately evenly across my pens. I'm somewhat monogamous with my pens, thus, I am searching for a very hard tipped nib.

 

The way I grind my nibs is that I finish them with 12000 grit micromesh, then I switch to jeweler's rouge. I found out that by using rouge, I can decrease the surface imperfections and the surface area of the tipping and thus make it smoother and more resilient to ink-based corrosion.

 

Side note, IIRC, tippings would break off back then because early on, the metals were soldered on. Nowadays, electrowelding processes have dominated the market to produce stronger metallurgical bonds.

 

I write in here - http://www.amazon.com/Canson-Basic-Sketch-White-Sheets/dp/B00ZYC1JX6

and take notes on this, http://www.amazon.com/Strathmore-Writing-Stationery-90-bright-Watermarked/dp/B0007KNYEM

Edited December 29, 2015 by Iso*

[tfwall]

I am not entirely following your posts with regards to what you doing and what are experiencing.

 

First off, you will never wear out a nib. Writing with osmium, iridium or mixed platinum group metal point on writing paper simply will never wear any observable metal away.

 

You mention you are using "needlepoint" nibs, so there are some things that could be happening to you:

-You could be making needlepoints out of nibs that simply don't have the design or metallurgy to support being ground down so much. This results in nibs that are easily sprung, deformed or knocked out of alignment. All of these can result in a "scratchy" feel.

-You could have picked up fibres, dust and the like in the nib tines. This would cause the line to broaden and the feedback to change.

-With frequent grinding (every few weeks!!!), you may have simply taken off all the tipping and are now deforming the gold or steel razor point. The same way that kitchen knife edges fold over, making the knife dull.

 

I'd recommend that instead of going through nibs helter-skelter, looking for ever "harder tipped nibs" and grinding/sharpening them every few weeks, you retain the services of a professional nibmeister. They can make you a true XXXF nib that will last you the rest of your life without any further adjustment required.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Chemyst

[Iso*]

Very well, Chemyst. I'll take that challenge.

 

I'll hunt down a nibmeister to grind one Lamy nib down to a XXF or so. I have access to an analytical balance at my institution, so I'll take a mass difference before and after half a year or so. Nib wear is something that irks me a lot.

 

I grind nibs carefully, and I inspect often if I have ground off the tipping. Yes, I am aware that the alloy is typically a silvery colour on the end of a nib. I check and floss the times often. I've checked tine alignment, tine balance, obliqueness, rounding, and opening shape. I started grinding my own nibs quite a while ago, and I do have a pen or two that hasn't seemed to wear at all.

 

I do it to rectify this annoying problem http://i.imgur.com/DJ17g3X.jpg

 

That pen is a platinum desk pen with a 14kt gld nib that I mentioned earlier. It is a pen that I have used for most of a school year previously. This pen has never been in contact with any abrasive and is worn down to a nice and unfortunate sharp foot on plain paper. I do not believe that all pens are tipped equally to write consistently after five or so years of heavy use.

Edited December 29, 2015 by Iso*

[tfwall]

Very well, Chemyst. I'll take that challenge.

 

I'll hunt down a nibmeister to grind one Lamy nib down to a XXF or so.

 

Excellent, that will resolve all of your issues.

 

Be sure that you communicate to them your preference for extremely high pen elevations.

 

It may be also be that Lamy nibs are not structurally suitable to be ground down to XXF and you may need to explore other nib/pen options. Here again, a nibmeister specializing in ultra fine points can advise you.

[Masque]

Good paper...and if you use IG ink you might want it to shade...you need 90g paper outside Rhoda and a great 70g t-something river Japanese paper. 80g printing paper don't shade.

 

Good to better paper than 90g paper, only costs a couple cans of Coke or cups of Starbuck's coffee.

 

There is paper out there which defies this advice, and fits the Lamy budget while performing amongst the best.

 

[Algester]

to know who tips their nibs the hardest one must have a mineral hardness tester and cut the tipping of the nibs then smash it into the the tester...

if it beats diamond in hardness then you know you got the hardest tipping found on a pen

Edited December 31, 2015 by Algester

[dcwaites]

to know who tips their nibs the hardest one must have a mineral hardness tester and cut the tipping of the nibs then smash it into the the tester...

if it beats diamond in hardness then you know you got the hardest tipping found on a pen

 

You can use a micro hardness testing machine, which pushes tiny hard pointy bit into the metal sample and then uses a microscope to measure the indentation. By testing the top of the tipping, you wouldn't affect the writing performance of the nib, and it would work on all but the finest of nibs.

 

As to whether you could wear out a pen, H.P. Lovecraft was known to buy a new pen every few years. I have a Parker 51 which definitely has a flat spot from a previous owner. It would depend on how hard you pressed when you wrote. I learnt cursive with dip pens, so I write with a very low pressure. Even my untipped clerical dip pens rust out before they wear out. But others write with quite a lot of pressure, so I could imagine them wearing a nib out over a decade or few.

[recluse]

Nakaya claims that with their tipping material the nib yields 60-70 km of writing. I've seen data from different manufacturers, the best results were around 50 km. So, if you take what Nakaya says for straight value, their tipping is one of the hardest.

 

I am surprised to see claims that tipping is eternal. Back in day, when there were no other options but to do calculations by hand, I and my colleagues went through hundreds pages a month. Changes in the tips were apparent.

Edited December 31, 2015 by recluse

[Bo Bo Olson]

Holding at 63 degrees...is in front of the big index knuckle....like holding a ball point.

The tipping at the top tip of the pen is thin....in you should be using the bottom of the nib...where the bump is....45 degrees right after the big index knuckle.

40 degrees is also good at the start of the web of the thumb...if a long or heavy pen...35 degrees in the pit of the web of the thumb.

 

95% of scratchy is miss aligned tines and or holding a fountain pen like ball point before or = to the big index knuckle.

 

A nib unless you have one of the fat blobby modern nibs with the double kuggle/ double ball and extra tipping on the tip....made for folks that hold like a pencil or ball point, your tip does not have the amount of tipping there on the exact edge to do good writing.

You are not writing on a small puddle of ink...= not smooth. You are writing in a 'rut' of ink = scratchy.

 

You can get a modern fat blobby nib and send it in to a nibmeiser and do tell him at what angle you hold the pen....that way he can maintain the deeper needle tipping.

 

You are grinding the pen's tipping off your self. A needle point is never smooth as is....well a master can make it relatively smooth.

 

Have you tried Japanese XXF...that is needle tipped.= XXXF in western. In the Japanese pens are designed for a short stroke Japanese printed script that might be the way to go.

 

25% cotton I find better than 50 or 100% for shading in they feather too much...but are soft writing.

Edited January 1, 2016 by Bo Bo Olson

[Vintagepens]

The hardness of nib tipping material can vary considerably. Top line Japanese makers have, from what I understand, stuck with traditional alloys that are very hard and durable. Many British Parkers of the 1950s and 1960s used a quite soft tipping material, probably tungsten.

 

Many years ago John Mottishaw had tests done on various nibs to determine their tipping materials. There was considerable variation in the alloys used.

[tragique]

Every once in a while, there's a thread with someone claiming to have worn out a nib in a matter of years.

 

Example here: https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/231463-lamy-2000-v-lamy-safari-nib-durability/

 

And on other sites: https://www.reddit.com/r/fountainpens/comments/3socq4/wore_down_the_tipping_on_my_pelikan_m800_in_m_i/

 

It seems that in all those cases the person would use one pen for years on end, but still, that shows the nibs won't last that long if you use exclusively one pen. I really expected better than 5-6 years at 5-10 pages per day.

Edited January 5, 2016 by tragique

[phaus]

You could probably find an old Pick lever-filler at a pretty reasonable price. Supposedly they used to demonstrate their quality and resilience by stabbing it into a board of wood.

[recluse]

I really expected better than 5-6 years at 5-10 pages per day.

 

I'd say it's in that ballpark. Let's make an estimate: 7 in wide line with 15 lines per page. This comes to 105 inches or about 2.7 m, which we round up to 3 m to account that writing is not a straight line. Then 10 pages per day would yield 30 m x 365 = 10950 m. Thus, somewhat heavy writing yields 10 km worth of lines per year. Taking 50 km as a lifetime of a good nib, we obtain 5 years.

 

Conversely, 50 km is about 17 000 pages of writing. This is a lot but it's not beyond the limits.