Jackdaw With Partial Second Imprint

[Greenie]

I just received this Jackdaw pen today. Interesting orange/pink color with black almost birds-eye pattern and grayish greenish chunks. Nickel plated lever and clip. No clip logo. "Jackdaw" on the feed and on the nib. It has a strong typical Jackdaw imprint. But there is another imprint as well. I tried my best to show the imprint with the strange "ghost" imprint underneath, including a pic with some added blue highlighting of what I think I am reading. Any ideas what this other imprint might be? It almost looks like THE "NATAL" PEN, SHUTER_________ER

 

 

 

 

[Cob]

What a strange - home-made - engraving. I hoped for a second or two that it might have read Neville Shute Norway, but it seems not. And Shute was an engineer as well as a best-selling novelist, so I doubt that he would have over-written the factory imprint!

 

Turning to the original imprint, you will know that Ana and I have agreed here that we should have liked to have been flies on the wall of the imprint section at Mabie Todd, where the operative was clearly asleep omitting to stamp so many pens. Perhaps such errors occurred becasue he woke up at the wrong time?

 

Here's another example of a MT stamping error - a 1060 I sold a while ago:

 

 

Note the "in with "ND beneath over the Swan, obviously part of a phantom " Made in England"

Cob

Edited September 11, 2015 by Cob

[pen2paper]

History Detective in action! *

 

Wondering.. are there photos of the US and UK manufacturing shop interiors?

(we did once see a photo of the early Onoto, wait - senior moment, I think it was Le Boeuf? machine shop interior photo shared by one who stated he was their last shop apprentice). I can See that photo, (but cannot find it), he was the youngest fellow, standing to the right. He didn't get much response, and disappeared - pen history experts likely busy or simply missed the post. To have personal access to an apprentice of high-end ceased production was pure treasure trove of lost pen history. (why I look for such inquiries since then).

 

Cob has noted stamping errors. Were these errors, omissions, or limitations of the equipment? In this case, could the overstamp be a later non-Swan addition? Do the letter imprints appear to be Swan?

 

* finding, reconnecting missing history is such great fun! This was an exciting find.

editing to add: what's your thoughts on whether this was a commissioned business pen? If it were a failed imprint experiment, would they select an actual company on another continent? But as a poorly executed example, would they ship this to S&S in SA? Finally, where was this pen found?

Edited September 11, 2015 by pen2paper

[Greenie]

I do not think that the font is the same as the Mabie Todd font.

 

The layout is the same

Original:

 

"JACKDAW" SELF FILLING PEN

 

other imprint

 

THE "NATAL" PEN

 

Both all caps, with a larger font for the name, in quotes

 

Shuter and (or &) Shooter could totally fit

 

With the font size and quotes, I am fairly certain that "the natal pen" is correct, but the L and closing quotes are not really seen.

The name of a stationer on the second line would be fairly common with older hard rubber pens that were otherwise left unbranded for the store to add their own name.

 

The funny thing is to strike over the original like this rather than to add to the other side.

[Greenie]

 

 

It would be interesting to know the most recent provenance of this pen. Perhaps Greenie can shed some light on this?

 

 

Well...ebay. The entire description:

THIS ONE IS A - M. T & CO JACKDAW

 

Per the listing, it came from:

fochabers, Moray, United Kingdom

 

I agree with your astute deduction. Early stationers often sold pens under their own names or with their own names added, and the "Shuter" of Shuter and Shooter was the stationer per Wikipedia. And there are "maybe" some faint bottoms of "O"s in the right place for "SHOOTER". But there is still a lot of mystery with this one! Hopefully someone at the modern company has an interest in history and mysteries and will take an interest in this.

[Greenie]

YOU. GET. 100% CREDIT ! All you, my friend! The seller only said THIS ONE IS A - M. T & CO JACKDAW

 

No other info available except my photos, and your brain, and the internet. And my looking at the pen and seeing that your deduced company name could surely fit, and might actually make some sense!

 

I clipped and pasted parts of my enhanced image over the first draft enhanced image to show spacing. So excuse the UU instead of OO in Shooter, since it was for spacing purposes. I see no trace of the ampersand. However, in the first line, there is almost no spacing between THE"NATAL with the quotation marks.

 

[chunya]

History Detective in action! *

 

Wondering.. are there photos of the US and UK manufacturing shop interiors?

(we did once see a photo of the early Onoto, wait - senior moment, I think it was Le Boeuf? machine shop interior photo shared by one who stated he was their last shop apprentice). I can See that photo, (but cannot find it), he was the youngest fellow, standing to the right. He didn't get much response, and disappeared - pen history experts likely busy or simply missed the post. To have personal access to an apprentice of high-end ceased production was pure treasure trove of lost pen history. (why I look for such inquiries since then).

 

Cob has noted stamping errors. Were these errors, omissions, or limitations of the equipment? In this case, could the overstamp be a later non-Swan addition? Do the letter imprints appear to be Swan?

 

* finding, reconnecting missing history is such great fun! This was an exciting find.

editing to add: what's your thoughts on whether this was a commissioned business pen? If it were a failed imprint experiment, would they select an actual company on another continent? But as a poorly executed example, would they ship this to S&S in SA? Finally, where was this pen found?

Hi pen2paper,

 

Is this the one you were thinking of? Iandonnachie halfway down onwards ..... If so then not a sprobbaly 60 years ago.very nearly

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/113186-what-and-when-was-the-onoto-penmaster/

 

 

and well found, Empty of Clouds!

Edited September 12, 2015 by chunya

[mallymal1]

Excellent thread. Great bit of ongoing research.

[MarcShiman]

Mabie Todd Co Ltd. advertising always listed a Capetown branch, so its entirely possible there was local branding.

 

One other thought - "Natal" is Portuguese for "Christmas".

 

Here's a "Natal" pen made in China now for the Portuguese Market

 

http://img.frbiz.com/763988_d/natal_pen.jpg

Edited September 12, 2015 by MarcShiman

[MarcShiman]

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Vintage-Joseph-Gillotts-Natal-Pen-nib-1133-England-with-embossed-rose-/181862890274?hash=item2a57df7b22

[pen2paper]

Hi pen2paper,

 

Is this the one you were thinking of? Iandonnachie halfway down onwards ..... If so then not a sprobbaly 60 years ago.very nearly

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/topic/113186-what-and-when-was-the-onoto-penmaster/

 

 

and well found, Empty of Clouds!

dashing out the door to work, so just a cursory glance. The eye-witness details included appear to be what I read, but I don't see the photo he shared of his youthful self in the machine shop. Thanks chunya! Very grateful. Frustrating unable to find this, as it's a example of documenting eye witness experiences before they pass off the scene. After which we can only read the objects, advertisements, and legal documents to piece the disconnected puzzle.

[Greenie]

Mabie Todd Co Ltd. advertising always listed a Capetown branch, so its entirely possible there was local branding.

 

One other thought - "Natal" is Portuguese for "Christmas".

 

Here's a "Natal" pen made in China now for the Portuguese Market

 

http://img.frbiz.com/763988_d/natal_pen.jpg

I am off to trade in my NATAL pen for one of these beauties! They will take a place on honor with the Hero and Jinhao pens.

 

More seriously, I was not aware of the South Africa connection to Mabie Todd. So the Shuter and Shooter connection makes more sense now.

[MarcShiman]