EF or EEF nibs

April 19, 2007

Thank you for all your help so far!

I am eagerly waiting for my first Sailor and Nakaya.

What are most members 'favourite EF or EEF nibs' other than a Sailor?

(Is there a poll on favourite EF or EEF nibs?)

I have 3 Pelikans and my Pelikan EF nib writes like my Pelikan F nib and is scratchy. :bonk:

Do you have any 'unpleasant experience' with a particular EF or EEF nib?

April 19, 2007

Pelikan EF nibs are usually the worst EF from any maker. I have owned four and sampled seven. They are more consistently NOT Extra Fine, and in many cases, thicker than the Pelikan F! They also tend to be quite wet. I would be hard-pressed to ever buy another Pelikan.

Delta make a EEF nib, but there is little information to be found on it... I believe "umenohana" has an Elastic Nakaya SEF (Super Extra Fine)... you could review her posts for comments. Also, I believe Platinum make a UEF (Ultra Extra Fine) nib.

Annoyingly, manufactures of (EEF/XXF) nibs seem to only supply them with very particular models of pens - so far I have not found an EEF Delta or UEF Platinum model I like.

Those of us who use Account/Accountant (XXF) and Needlepoint (XXXF) nibs regularly have generally had them ground by a nibmeister, or have acquired them on a vintage pen.

Sadly, not too many brands offer a true EF. Personally I have found that most Pilot and Platinum EF's are finer than the Sailor EF and very pleasing. My 14K and 18K Aurora EF's are also very good. I have an 18K Omas EF which is very fine and springy. My Pilots and Platinums are older pens, so I can't suggest much from the modern range... but I do enjoy the 14K EF on my Pilot Custom 98 - quite dry and very fine, but also rather springy. By comparison, the 14K Sailor is designated as an H-EF = Hard (Rigid) EF.

I have not investigated EF's from many other brands, because by most accounts they are simply Western EF's like the Pelikan - not really an EF at all. (When someone says their EF nib is tiny, dry and scratchy - I go and seek that nib out.

As mentioned, there is a LOT of information about EF/XF nibs available on FPN, including polls. The topic comes up fairly regularly so a Search should reveal lots of handy info.

Edited April 19, 2007 by Phthalo

April 28, 2007

Thank you very much Laura for your advice!

My first Sailor Sapporo with EF nib came to hand yesterday. I put it to extensive use right away and had written five pages of notes so far. Wow...... FAN....tas..tic... A true extra fine.

If only i had bought it right from the beginning of my collection. It makes my Pelikan fine looks like a roller width and feels full of tooth. I am seriously thinking of sending my Pelikans away for regrinding.

Is it cheaper to send a few pens away for regrinding rather than one at a time?

I would be hard-pressed to ever buy another Pelikan.

I am having the same feelings currently. At least till i have acquired enough Nakaya and Sailor.

I finally ink my Stipula Etrutria with EF nib today. It writes like my Omas fine. :doh2: I could have bought four Sapporo pens with EF. Anyway , it is a beautiful pen and i will put it to good use.

I am waiting for my Platinum UEF nib to arrive next week and my Nakaya elastic SEF to arrive next month. Then i will ink them together for comparison. The Sailor PG with Saiba Togi(EEF) is very tempting. ( Someone please stop me!). It is available from Cyberpens.

My next pen is a Pilot pen. Can anyone suggest a Pilot pen with EF nib(preferably a 14K or 18K)? I have been looking into Pilot 823, but it comes with F nib only. I wonder if it writes as fine as a Sailor EF.

What are the readers experience with Ujuku pen shop? Where can i find a good range of Pilot pens besides ebay?

Is Nakaya celluloid the same as platinum celluloid except the stamp on the nib?

Thank you all for your opinions and for reading!

May 1, 2007

I'm glad to hear the Sailor nib worked out for you! They are beautiful and flawless writers (I have three 14K EF's) - I've never experienced one problem.

Regarding getting nibs reground, it's just personal preference whether you send one or many, but yes, a discount often applies for a group. In my case, the discount applies for ten pens, so for most of 2006, I kept setting pens aside, and when I had ten, I sent them all away.

I'll be very interested to hear how the Platinum UEF performs. I also have a Nakaya Elestic SEF coming. The Saibi nib sounds lovely, but it doesn't interest me enough to purchase... maybe I'm experiencing XXF overload.

I have a little Pilot Custom 98 with a 14K EF nib - it is finer than my Sailor EF's, and slightly drier - I really like it. It is also a bit of a springy nib, while the Sailor 14K EF's are rigid.

The Ujuku store is great - nice prices and lots of choice. The order system is a bit odd, but don't worry, you get a reply from the owner within a couple of days and then the order is processed quite quickly. I have had no issues with Ujuku.

I'm not sure if the Nakaya and Platinum celluloids are different - I would imagine they would be the same... maybe someone else can confirm?

Edited May 1, 2007 by Phthalo

May 7, 2007

Thank you Laura!

This week is FPN LE week. I am so thrilled knowing my pen is on the way. Luckily my wait is not as traumatizing as i have the new Platinum President UEF nib. I have decided to put it to extensive testing along with my Sapporo rather than waiting for my Nakaya SEF.

Talking about needlepoint out of the box, this is it! It is just impressive!

There were a few minor hiccups initially. That led to the delay in posting this message after a week of receiving the pen.

The platinum converter that came with the pen was problematic. It binds to the wall of the converter and expelling the ink requires axial pressure in addition to the rotatory movement of the converter piston.

I initially filled the pen with Diamine Monaco Red. Oh Boy, the writings were faint and appeared 'pink' on paper. :embarrassed_smile: It also skipped intermittently. As i was unable to compare those writings with my Sailor Sapporo with EF nib, i refilled the platinum with Pelikan Brilliant Black, as it was with my sapporo after flushing out the Diamine Monaco Red.

Wow...

The writing from the Platinum UEF nib is so fine, it gives a false visual impression the pen is filled with a 'grey' ink when comparing to the writings from the Sailor Sapporo with EF nib. The line drawn with the Platinum UEF is at least 50 percent finer than the Sailor sapporo. It makes the Sailor EF looks like a roller. If a Sailor EF nib writes a line width of 0.23mm, my guesstimate is the Platinum UEF probably writes a line of 0.1mm or possibly finer.

Do experts of the forum have any technical information about this nib?

The nib has enough feedback due to its fine needlepoint but not scratchy as my Pelikan. Sailor has a wet flow and is smooth in writing. This Platinum UEF nib is dry and the 18K UEF nib is rather rigid with small amount of flex.

The ink flow has dramatically improved with Pelikan Brilliant Black and the pen has stopped skipping. I wonder certain brands of ink will provide better flow for EEF or UEF nib. What are the recommendations from the experts of the forum?

I am not certain wether to get the Sailor with Saiba Togi as it costs another US$70.00 more than the cheapest Nakaya plus a month wait after payment. I am more inclined to purchase another Nakaya with either EEF or EF nib.

An email to Richard last week returned with a pleasant surprise. He can grind a nib into EF or EEF italic. Now i have to save up pens for that day.

My Pilot is also on the way from Japan. I will try to get a Pilot Custom 98 and 78 eventually. Is the converter reliable and does it hold a reasonable quantity of ink with each refill?

Thank you all for reading and sharing your opinions!

Edited May 15, 2007 by thw

May 12, 2007

Hi! I missed your response to this until now - what an exciting pen week!

I don't have the Platinum UEF, but I have Pilot EF's that I believe are the same line width - I have found modern Pilot's to run a fraction finer and drier than Sailor and Platinum pens.

I don't think anything will increase the flow of the UEF - that is what the flow should be like. If it were wetter, the line would be thicker and it would simply be an EF. Have you tried a Platinum EF? You may find it just perfect if the UEF is too dry...

I have a Custom 98 with a 14K EF and it is very fine and dry - but the nib does have springiness, so with a bit of pressure you can get some very subtle variation. I write with a very light hand, so I don't see any variation unless I'm writing quite fast, or apply a bit of extra pressure. Also, the Pilot Custom 98 is NOT a full-size pen, it's a mini... about 5mm shorter than the Sapporo when capped, and a 1cm shorter when posted. It's also a bit slimmer. The standard Pilot converter CON-20 is reliable, has a good capacity, and is a press-bar filler.

I'm not sure why the fact that Richard Binder can grind a nib to EF or EEF Italic is a surprise... I'm certain I have mentioned mine many times!

On Friday afternoon I received the following from Richard:

Jean-Pierre Lepine, Attila - XXXF 0.3mm Stub

Jean-Pierre Lepine, Indigo - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint

Lamy, Lady - XXXF 0.3mm Cursive Italic

Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXXF 0.1mm Super-Needlepoint

Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXF 0.3mm Stub

Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint

Montegrappa, Micra - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint

Pelikan, M400 - XXXF 0.3mm Stub

Pelikan, M300 - XXXF 0.3mm Crisp Italic

Pelikan, M200 - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint

(Note: Italic nibs run one grade larger than Round nibs, so a XXXF Round is 0.2mm, while a XXXF Italic is 0.3mm.)

Do you want to swap some writing samples? I'd love to see how the UEF writes!

Edited May 12, 2007 by Phthalo

May 15, 2007

I apologise for my late reply, Laura. It has been a busy start to the week so far...

Have you tried a Platinum EF? You may find it just perfect if the UEF is too dry...

The Platinum President UEF is my first Platinum fountain pen. Do you have any recommendations of other model of Platinum FP(modern or vintage) with EF nib that is reliable? Is the 14k nib better than 18K for the platinum pens?

Also, the Pilot Custom 98 is NOT a full-size pen, it's a mini... about 5mm shorter than the Sapporo when capped, and a 1cm shorter when posted. It's also a bit slimmer.

I am so glad you mention it. On the Ujuku website, the Pilot Custom 98 and Custom 74 are both advertised as similar size and weight. My new Pilot 74 is definitely longer comparing to the Sapporo by approximately 2cm when capped or posted. It makes the converter con 20 looking disproportionately small for the custom 74 with a dead space of at least 3cm in the barrel. The physical size of the nib (Pilot size 5) closely resembles the size of the nib of the Sapporo.

Jean-Pierre Lepine, Attila - XXXF 0.3mm Stub
Jean-Pierre Lepine, Indigo - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint
Lamy, Lady - XXXF 0.3mm Cursive Italic
Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXXF 0.1mm Super-Needlepoint
Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXF 0.3mm Stub
Omas Celluloid, Princess - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint
Montegrappa, Micra - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint
Pelikan, M400 - XXXF 0.3mm Stub
Pelikan, M300 - XXXF 0.3mm Crisp Italic
Pelikan, M200 - XXXF 0.2mm Needlepoint

Woo..............ow! How do they write? It must be like having ten new pens in one hit. Do you have any particular favourite among the ten? How do they perform comparing to your Nakaya? Are you planning to write a post for us?

If i know i have ten pens returning from Richard with customised nibs, i will have 'severe insomia from over-joy' till the pens arrived.

Do you want to swap some writing samples? I'd love to see how the UEF writes!

I will be most delighted if we can swap some writing samples. I will scan some of the writings with UEF and other nibs and email you within the next two days. Thank you very much!