How Seals A Deskpen Holder?

[Cepasaccus]

As far as I know, dedicated deskpeny have no threading for a cap, but there are also pens converted to deskpens by screwing on a tail. These do have a cap threading. How does the holder seal the gap between pen and holder to prevent drying of the pen? Nothing? Rubber seal? Does it depend if it is for a threaded or non-threaded pen?

 

Thanks

[Pickwick]

At the time desk fountain pens were popular they were never sealed in the holder, Also what is now so called 'Vintage' pens, never had sealed caps. If you look at older fountain pen caps you will find a small breather hole, therefore the cap has no seal to it whereas modern pen makers no longer do this.

 

Pens were in frequent use at one time, and if there was a seal it may have proved difficult to release the pen from the holder. However, like all fountain pens, it wasn't advisable to neglect using them for prolonged periods.

[Cepasaccus]

Thanks.

[graystranger]

Many vintage desk pens do seal air tight in their tulips.

 

I have a vintage Sheaffer Snorkel Desk Pen from the early 60's. I have its original box and instructions. The pen screws into the tulip to seal it. It will stay well inked for weeks unused. The instruction card specifically states that ". . . when using the pen you can just rest it in the holder. But if you leave the pen unused for a time it should be screwed into the holder to keep the nib from drying out"

 

I love this pen and use it. The threads in the tulip are triple threads, so it only takes about a 3/4 turn to fully unscrew or screw the pen out of or into the holder. If you look on eBay for vintage desk pens you will see many of the pens have a threaded portion where their non-desk models have the threads for a cap.

 

In fact most of the desk pens I have seen from the 40's and 50's do have threads. in the tulip and barrel. Many desk pens (long tapered barrels) came with threaded caps instead of a base, for those who wanted to lay the pen on the desk or in a groove on a pen holder.

 

I have a modern Platinum Carbon Desk pen that comes with a slip on cap that snugs onto the grip to seal it air tight. The desk holder for it comes separately from the pen. The pen only sits in the tulip without any threads or press fit at all, very loose under only its own weight. However, it also will sit for a week or two without drying out as the geometry inside the tulip makes an air tight seal with the pen grip under only the pen's light weight.

[Roger W.]

Wrong. Desk pens do seal but, poorly. Early desk pens set on an inner cap but, since they sit at an angle the seal is ineffective at best. Sheaffer came up with the first dry-proof in 1934 with a cam that would seal the section down to the inner cap. It had problems and the second dry-proof cam out in 1940. It was better but, just changed around the cam system. In late '42 Sheaffer pens screw into the base like pocket pens. This, of course, leads to people picking up the whole desk set when they go for the pen unless it is a large desk set. Generally by the 1960's the fit of the pen to the socket is close enough to create an airtight hold so that there is not and inner cap any more and the feed is felt to be sufficient to handle any suction on raising the pen to keep it from leaking. Many modern pens don't have inner caps either so they don't seal like they used to either. This is always the theory though desk pens sockets are far messier that caps.

 

Pocket pens were historically sealed with the inner cap (the original "safety" pens from 1904 onward) with the hole placed for relief of suction that such a seal would cause when the pen was screwed shut the nib being in the inner cap and airtight. Greater discussion can be found on this elsewhere.

 

Roger W.

[Vintagepens]

Just to clarify Roger's last point:

The vent holes in the caps of vintage pens equipped with screw-on caps and inner caps do not go through the inner cap -- they go through the wall of the outer cap just below the inner cap.

[graystranger]

My early 1960's Sheaffer Snorkel Desk Pen seals well enough to sit for two weeks or more without the nib drying out, if it is screwed into the tulip.

 

I can't understand anyone picking up the whole assembly by not unscrewing the pen! At least once they know how to remove the pen. I have been using this pen for nearly two years and have never done that. Of course, someone who has never used it might, but this is the first desk pen I have ever used and I have never picked it up without unscrewing it even from the first. Of course, someone who does not know that many fountain pens have screw caps might.

 

I wondered what the holes in the cap of the vintage fountain pens were for. No suction on this desk pen because once it is unscrewed it is loose enough not to form any suction as the pen is withdrawn. Ink has never collected in the bottom of the tulip either, it functions flawlessly with no mess at all.

 

I wondered why Platinum did not make the tulip in their Carbon Desk Pen slip over the section instead of a simple contact seal. Probably because you would have to hold the base to pull the pen from the tulip. The simple separate cap that comes with the pen slides over the section firmly, but when I slip it off no ink is drawn out of the feed from suction. Seems like it should create a lot of suction with its firm sliding air tight fit over the section, but maybe Platinum has figured out how to accomplish this. The nib is a Japanese EF, maybe that has something to do with it.

Edited April 7, 2015 by graystranger

[Roger W.]

Graystranger;

 

Later feeds - post 1930's - are sufficient to negate the suction effect from going from airtight to open. Early pens like droppers (they weren't originally called eyedroppers as that term occurs later than the pens) had insufficient feeds and would likely blob when unscrewed necessitating the relief holes found in early caps. Desk pens just slipped into holders up until the 1940's and then again in the 1960's so there is only a 20 year period when they screw into a holder (even the 30's dry-proofs slipped in though you were supposed to screw it in to activate the dry-proof function).

 

Roger W.

[DanDeM]

Here are a couple of Eclipse desk sets. Judging by the material and the lever box,

likely early 1930's.

 

 

Both have threaded barrels and trumpets,

[rwilsonedn]

The Esterbrook dipless pen (technically, a dip pen with a fountain-pen feed but no ink reservoir) just sits loosely in its inkwell with no friction to speak of. It is always ready to write until the ink in the well dries out or runs out. Apparently you don't need a moisture-proof seal unless your pen has a dry-out problem to begin with.

By the way, the instruction sheet on a 1930s-40s French fountain pen I have claims that the little hole in the cap is to control condensation inside the cap. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with preventing a vacuum when you remove the cap.

ron

[hari317]

By the way, the instruction sheet on a 1930s-40s French fountain pen I have claims that the little hole in the cap is to control condensation inside the cap. It doesn't appear to have anything to do with preventing a vacuum when you remove the cap.

ron

Hi Ron, if the hole vents the cap even when the cap is fully closed, there is no question of vacuum as the pen is uncapped. It all boils down to the location of the cap hole.

Hari

[Cepasaccus]

Regarding vacuum, the old caps with the straight section, where removing the cap made "plop", had a really good suction. It would be interesting how modern feeds would handle it.

[AAAndrew]

I have a Parker 51 desk pen that doesn't screw in, it's a friction fit, which you would expect for a 51 since it doesn't have threads and it stays quite good for a long time with only periodic use. Which could also just be a factor of the 51's design, which usually lasts quite well between uses.

 

I just have to be careful to not place it into the tulip with any force. If I do, then the next time I take it out, I can start to lift up the whole base as it's only a single pen stone base. It's less vacuum and more just friction.

 

Also remember, in a base, the pen is kept with nib down, which would, just by itself, make it slightly less likely to dry out