Beginner Question: What Is Scratchiness?

[Justcurious]

So I've been confused as to what is scratchiness, I know it can be caused by tine misalignment and that it can make sounds, as such I was wondering if the sounds made in this asmr video:

are signs of scratchiness?

 

I'm just confused as to what is 'scratchiness' and what is 'normal' ?

 

Thanks

[shawndp]

Scratchy is the adjective I would use to describe that handwriting. I can imagine teachers in junior schools I went to with rulers ready to "correct" the script!

 

In reference to what you are looking for - it is friction on the paper and a fine nib with a dryish ink that would do this - some papers make the condition worse. Normal for a FP is that the nib glides on a river of ink with minimal downforce on the writer's part. There is sometimes noise, but the key attribute is "fluid" if that makes sense.

[Justcurious]

Scratchy is the adjective I would use to describe that handwriting. I can imagine teachers in junior schools I went to with rulers ready to "correct" the script!

 

In reference to what you are looking for - it is friction on the paper and a fine nib with a dryish ink that would do this - some papers make the condition worse. Normal for a FP is that the nib glides on a river of ink with minimal downforce on the writer's part. There is sometimes noise, but the key attribute is "fluid" if that makes sense.

So, as long as the pen is writing without me applying force it should be considered 'normal'? I was only wondering because some of my 'F' nibs make this sound and it irritates me!

[TheRealScubaSteve]

So, as long as the pen is writing without me applying force it should be considered 'normal'? I was only wondering because some of my 'F' nibs make this sound and it irritates me!

 

Probably so, yes. Fine nibs more easily find their way into the tiny crevices of the paper. They are also usually much less smooth than a medium or broader nib.

 

Scratchy is somewhat like in the video. The sound is "correct," but the really scratchy sounds in the video are due to how he is holding the nib at a steel angle and not on the sweet spot of the nib. Scratchy can be difficult to differentiate between "feedback," when you are new. Feedback is some resistance between the pen and paper, but scratchy feels much worse as if the nib could (and it can) tear the paper. Sound alone is not enough to determine either - it's all in the feel. Try to write on cheap paper without any ink in your pen - this is usually a scratchy feeling unless the nib is super smooth.

Edited March 15, 2015 by TheRealScubaSteve

[Justcurious]

 

 

Probably so, yes. Fine nibs more easily find their way into the tiny crevices of the paper. They are also usually much less smooth than a medium or broader nib.

 

Scratchy is somewhat like in the video. The sound is "correct," but the really scratchy sounds in the video are due to how he is holding the nib at a steel angle and not on the sweet spot of the nib. Scratchy can be difficult to differentiate between "feedback," when you are new. Feedback is some resistance between the pen and paper, but scratchy feels much worse as if the nib could (and it can) tear the paper. Sound alone is not enough to determine either - it's all in the feel. Try to write on cheap paper without any ink in your pen - this is usually a scratchy feeling unless the nib is super smooth.

 

If i dip a pen in water and try writing with it, would the results be comparable to writing with ink? As I have a pen that I don't wish to ink up!

Edited March 15, 2015 by Justcurious

[brunico]

I think it's helpful if scratchiness is reserved for nibs that will actually scratch the paper - nibs that have sharp edges where they shouldn't have, for instance, or burrs from manufacturing. Feedback is a popular term to describe some resistance, and maybe a little sound, from a nib that has no faults but isn't glassy smooth. Feedback is desirable to many people, as the resistance helps us control the nib.

 

If scratchy gets used for any nib that isn't silent and slippery, it becomes meaningless, and you can't tell whether the nib is defective or whether the problem in fact lies with the user (a lot of people think italic nibs are scratchy simply because they're not handling them properly).

 

In the video, the texture of the paper, the surface underneath, the ink flow, the pressure on the nib and the closeness of the microphone will all contribute to the noise you hear. It may or may not be scratchy - to my ears, not. I get the impression the writer's pressing down too hard, but maybe that's because they're writing slowly.

[Buzz_130]

A fountain pen should be able to write by holding the very end of the barrel and dragging the pen across a paper, using its own weight, to lay down a line. In other words, absolutely no pressure is required. A pen's nib actually floats on a small pool of ink as you write. As you hint, finer nibs have more potential to provide a scratchy feel because not as much ink is laid down on the paper to act as a lubricant. You are also right that tine alignment has a large part to do with how the nib feels. We bought a nice Parker Vac and had a very difficult time with the pen initially until we had the nib adjusted for alignment and flow. You can "fix" most parts of scratchiness.

 

You could dip your pen in water, but for what purpose? You won't know how the feed woks, the filling system, or anything else that actually makes the pen write. When you go to a pen show and watch the nibmeisters or when I was in Japan and watched the nibmesiters adjust pens as brick and mortar shows, they always use fountain pen ink as they adjust and fine tune the nib.

 

Buzz

[Intellidepth]

If i dip a pen in water and try writing with it, would the results be comparable to writing with ink? As I have a pen that I don't wish to ink up!

No, water's behaviour and feel is different. Less smooth IMO. Additives are frequently put in inks during manufacture for this specific purpose - to improve the feel.

 

If you purchase known smooth papers such as Rhodia and Clairefontaine, it immediately changes how a nib feels when compared to writing on the cheapest of cheap copy paper. I have targeted certain papers now for that very reason - smoothness - from copy-paper types through to fountain pen friendly notepads and journals.

 

Regarding ink, I love an Iroshizuku ink (a blend of 2 colours) in my Lamy F as it just seems to help the nib flow over the page smoothly in a way my 4 Noodlers inks cannot in that same pen. I enjoy the Noodlers inks more in different pens where the Iroshizuku doesn't work as effectively for me, for example flex pens and in an italic.

[Intellidepth]

The video just downloaded for me.

 

2:09 min into that video is ... Ugh. The formation of y on 'way' is scary. See how the nib jerked across/got sort of caught on the paper for that letter? Yes, I think there is scratchiness happening on that nib, particularly exacerbated by the direction the writer writes in relative to how the pen is positioned (sideways), the angle they used of nib to paper, and the uneven pressure applied. I suspect it is more to do with the technique used than the nib itself necessarily.

 

I write wherever possible with the slit in the nib more or less in line with, say, a downward 'l' stroke. This ensures both tines have even contact with the page (required if pressure is used, say, in flexing) and the ink has a chance to come down the slit and lubricate both tines. My side and up strokes are naturally more lightly applied.

 

The nib in the video is using the opposite angle, putting pressure on the slit in the nib in a horizontal way for the entire downstroke, under pressure. This, I think, is dragging/pressuring one tine open from the other causing scratchiness.

Edited March 15, 2015 by Intellidepth

[fountainpenlady]

No, the video does not represent what is meant by scratchiness. Along with all so far expressed and those who will still try to answer your question, when I think of scratchiness, I imagine those movies where the person is using a quill or dip pen and the sound I hear when they are almost out of ink before re dipping the pen for the next writing. I routinely and exclusively write with XF nibs and they tend to as someone has written be a bit toothy. They are not routinely the same feel as say a medium or broad, I can imagine in how they relate to the paper or ink. Sometimes, you can make a nib smoother with mylar paper, but you should not simply experiment.

Initially, do not use a pen or nib you still love or considered expensive. Definitely, look at Youtube videos showing you how several times before embarking; take your time and know when to stop. All suggestions, from experience, sadly I am admitting are to be read as a cautionary tale for newbies to Nib Tuning 100.

Edited March 15, 2015 by fountainpenlady

[Frank C]

The video window on on your post kept imploring me to "subscribe". Subscribe for what reason? To hear more scratchy writing—I can do that myself? To watch some bizarre mixture of letterforms? I would rather use one "hand" at a time. To see how not to hold a fountain pen? I can, and do, that at home. To press too hard on the paper? I do that at work.

 

So I went to Youtube to see the source. Here is what Asmrsurge wrote:

 

Published on Oct 16, 2014

It should be noted that this video was made with the intention of creating a nice relaxing feeling called ASMR. It's not that kind of video where someone wants to present calligraphy skills. I have no idea how to write in calligraphy, and actually I barely use a fountain pen.
The most important thing here was to create a video in which the quality of sound is decent enough to trigger asmr sensation.

 

Well, the sound did trigger a sensation or two. I received no relaxing feeling. I agree that she or he did not present calligraphy skill, that he or she has no idea of how to write in calligraphy, and that she or he actually barely use a fountain pen. I am a little upset that Intellidepth made me watch 2:09 minutes of this; I do agree that the "y" is scary, as was the rest of what I saw. Doesn't "Cadillac" have two els?

 

I have to go listen to some classical music to get that scratching sound out of my head. I'm glad that my fountain pens are in another room; they would be scared to let me take their caps off if they had seen—or heard—this.

[fountainpenlady]

Yet, the Newbie wanted to I guess find a video with sounds which simulate what he or she believes might be a pen whose nib sounds scratchy. In my humble 1/2 cents impression nothing more, nothing less. Certainly, does not seem like either the new person here or the person who created the video meant to cause such distress. Has the person's query been adequately, sufficiently, and thoroughly from those who may have some idea or opinion been answered? Tell your fountain pens, all is well, they have a owner on pointed watch and protective mode, who is about to soothe them with some classical music for their enjoyment and his resumed equilibrium & peace.

Edited March 15, 2015 by fountainpenlady

[rochester21]

Scratchiness: the quality of a nib to tear the paper on which it glides.

[Kataphract]

What is scratchiness? A Hunt 102 crowquill. Use one and you will know. ;-)

[Frank C]

Yet, the Newbie wanted to I guess find a video with sounds which simulate what he or she believes might be a pen whose nib sounds scratchy. In my humble 1/2 cents impression nothing more, nothing less. Certainly, does not seem like either the new person here or the person who created the video meant to cause such distress. Has the person's query been adequately, sufficiently, and thoroughly from those who may have some idea or opinion been answered? Tell your fountain pens, all is well, they have a owner on pointed watch and protective mode, who is about to soothe them with some classical music for their enjoyment and his resumed equilibrium & peace.

 

Sorry about that. I got carried away with my own perceived cleverness. Yes, the nib did sound scratchy!

 

My fountain pens are all better now. Most of them didn't even see or hear the video. The ones that did were traumatized, but I took them to church and they are much better now. One of them even wrote a nice check for the offering—without any complaining or recalcitrance.

[fountainpenlady]

Edited March 15, 2015 by fountainpenlady

[fountainpenlady]

 

Sorry about that. I got carried away with my own perceived cleverness. Yes, the nib did sound scratchy!

 

My fountain pens are all better now. Most of them didn't even see or hear the video. The ones that did were traumatized, but I took them to church and they are much better now. One of them even wrote a nice check for the offering—without any complaining or recalcitrance.

I am very pleased. Glad that they accompanied you to church. Good to read they are now all better. That was really nice and generous of that one. Enjoy a most wonderful week ahead, all of you.

[Justcurious]

Yet, the Newbie wanted to I guess find a video with sounds which simulate what he or she believes might be a pen whose nib sounds scratchy. In my humble 1/2 cents impression nothing more, nothing less. Certainly, does not seem like either the new person here or the person who created the video meant to cause such distress. Has the person's query been adequately, sufficiently, and thoroughly from those who may have some idea or opinion been answered? Tell your fountain pens, all is well, they have a owner on pointed watch and protective mode, who is about to soothe them with some classical music for their enjoyment and his resumed equilibrium & peace.

I tried to use videos by Brian Goulet or Steven brown but none of them could be heard over their talking, so I looked to ASMR as that isolated the sounds which is somewhat mostly comparable to what I hear

[Sarah M]

So I've been confused as to what is scratchiness, I know it can be caused by tine misalignment and that it can make sounds, as such I was wondering if the sounds made in this asmr video

are signs of scratchiness?

 

I'm just confused as to what is 'scratchiness' and what is 'normal' ?

 

Thanks

 

To me, scratchiness is really the way the nib *feels* rather than the way it sounds. I have some pens that make a lot of noise but are not scratchy. There may be feedback, but not scratchiness. On the other hand I've had scratchy nibs that were not that noisy.

 

At the end of the day it is how it feels to *you* when you write. If you don't like it, if it feels "draggy" or like it is catching on the paper, then it is probably scratchy.

[Blue_Moon]

I view scratchiness on two levels. One - the nib is actually scratching the paper, regardless of however slightly. Two - the sensation a person gets with the nib flowing on the ink across the paper. If a tine is misaligned, the paper is usually being scratched. However, if the nib is in perfect working order, and you are using a somewhat wet ink, you should experience the sensation of the pen gliding across the paper. Some people do not enjoy this, and prefer a little feedback.

 

I view it as similar to this: a contact does not rest directly on the eye, but floats on thin fluid in one's eye. Even though the nib actually makes contact with the paper, one can reach a level of smoothness, to where the sensation is that the pen is floating on the ink across the paper.