Zebra G-Nib Titanium?

[jasonchickerson]

Gum arabic is used as a watercolor painting medium; a number of watercolor manufacturers sell small bottles of the liquid form (you can also get it as a powder; there's a food-grade variety that's used in cake decorating). I use Winsor Newton brand, myself.

 

http://www.dickblick.com/watercolor/mediums/

 

Linda, do you treat FP inks with gum arabic for use in your Desiderata pen? Is gum arabic safe in minute amounts in normal FPs?

[Limner]

 

Thank you :-). I looked it up last night and had bought some from Amazon... As you know, my favorite shopping stop....lol..

 

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000WWK844/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I noticed is said the following. It does not play havoc with pens, nibs, does it?

 

• It will gradually increase tack as it dries

 

 

WHOAH. That's a great price for gum arabic! Looks like it's the powder, so you're not just paying for extra water. Powder's easier to store, too.

No, it shouldn't mess with your pens; even if it dried in the feed, it's water soluble so you can easily clean it out.

 

 

Linda, do you treat FP inks with gum arabic for use in your Desiderata pen? Is gum arabic safe in minute amounts in normal FPs?

 

I haven't, because so far I've been using nano inks (Platinum Carbon Black, De Atramentis Document mixes) in my Desideratas, and they tend to be "thicker" than regular dye-based inks. I honestly don't think gum arabic would mess with FPs, because it's completely water soluble until it hits paper, and even then it can be rubbed off. Even if it were to dry in a pen, it should clean out pretty easily. I did have a bottle of gum arabic that got the lid stuck on, and all I had to do was soak it in warm water for a few minutes and it came right off. Think of watercolor cakes: pretty hard when they're dry, but it doesn't take much to reactivate them with water. It doesn't gum up a watercolor brush, and bristles are much finer (and closer together, at the ferrule) than the fins of a FP feed.

 

You might want to check one of the ink subforums--I know intellidepth has been conducting experiments with adding luster and gum arabic to inks (though I can't remember which of those subforums it's in... )

[jasonchickerson]

I honestly don't think gum arabic would mess with FPs, because it's completely water soluble until it hits paper, and even then it can be rubbed off. Even if it were to dry in a pen, it should clean out pretty easily.

 

OK, then maybe I've found my solution.

 

Can anyone verify that gum arabic did not kill your pen before I put it in mine? Haha. I just ordered a bottle of the stuff linked to above.

Edited February 20, 2015 by jasonchickerson

[Icywolfe]

So is there there any real benefit for going powder or liquid gun arabic?

[kbrede]

They have food grade gum arabic at my local Whole Foods. It's in bulk, they sell it by the ounce.

Kent

[Icywolfe]

I like Amazon PRime's fast shipping. Got my nibs today and they feel smoother. Ink flow seems to better once you start it up but if it's dry the ink doesn't want to flow down. Also another plus side was how it made my ugly Ackerman pump pen look much better. I noticed the nib was tiny bit stiffer but much more springy feeling. I hope it can last longer with IG ink.

[ainterne]

My favorite place :-)... Amazon Prime..... I get so much from there it's unbelievable. So I have an empty quink ink bottle I fill with distilled water.

 

When I write the very first thing i do is dip my nib in the water for a second and just agitate it a little. Then I write a few words on a spare piece of paper

because the ink is a little watered down for a second or two. Then start writing as normal. It works so well I do it now with all my pens (Watermans etc). and it works superbly. Just don't get water on the section.

 

It's so much better for the nib than over pressing and shaking the pen to try and get them started when they are a little dry. I have seen people tapping the nib on the paper to try and get them started..... If you want to shorten the life of a G Nib and take the crispness away, that's exactly how to do it.... Much better to just wet the nib a little.

 

At first I used to use a little glass, but I often use red ink , after a few mins of concentrating on my writing I found my self reaching for the glass to drink it because it looked so much like a glass of red wine.....lol.... not good...!!

 

It will work with the Ackerman just the same. I used distilled water for obvious reasons. Out of interest, I pulled out one of my Ackerman pens and inspected the nib, Its been in there or a few months.... No rust...

 

I was thinking about your issue with the rust, and I wondered if you have Air conditioning or Radiator heat? Also do you keep your pens in an upright position when you are not using them or flat? I have a carousel for my pens, Its a Lazy Susan and not great looking but it does the job... I need to make a much nicer one. http://www.amazon.com/Studio-Designs-Table-Carousel-12164/dp/B0038DCL7G/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1424692051&sr=8-4&keywords=pen+carousel

 

I put the pens in with the nibs in an upright position so the ink does not run to the nib when I am not using them...and just touch the top of the nib on a little tissue before capping them.. I find it keeps the nibs dry and less prone to rust.

 

I don’t' know if I live close to a distribution center, but I have order items on Amazon at 5pm in the afternoon and got them the following morning. The funny thing is that the guy that delivers them is in his own car, dressed like a office worker.... It's an excellent service. I buy all my paper from them as it's so quick.

 

The only thing I have found with the G nibs is that if you measure them with a calipers, out of a box of 10, the odd one will be fractionally different in size.... The nibs are made to a tolerance. When I find one that is slightly larger than the average I throw it away before using it, or us it for testing. The reason is that they will fit slightly differently on the feed and will start to give you problems....At first I would think it was something up with the ink or pen etc......then finally realized because I had picked on up that was larger/smaller it was the problem..... that only applies to people using them in the Ackerman or Desiderata where the nib sits on a feed. Its not worth the hassle for effectively a $1.00 nib...... just ditch it and move on....

 

Good luck....

Edited February 23, 2015 by ainterne

[pavoni]

Hi ainterne, I much the same process as you have outlined above.

 

I am in the fortunate position of being able to hand-write a lot of letters as part of my daily work, I also have my own office and as such, have every opportunity to indulge and satisfy my passion for my pens.

 

For all letters, I use one of my oblique pen holders fitted with a Leonardt Principal nib and primarily Walker's Copperplate Ink. I use an oblique pen holder fitted with a Nikko G nib for addressing my envelopes, where my preference is to use the excellent Pelikan 4001 blue-black. My daily carry is whichever pen from my collection of vintage fountain pens is rotated in for the week, and I use these pens for note-taking (any excuse to use a fountain pen ). This pen is backed up by my ever-reliable Conid Bulkfiller (given its ink capacity) which I also use for signatures, both pens filled with Montblanc Mystery Black. The Bulkfiller is fitted with a Bock titanium nib. Accompanying both fountain pens is a rollerball (for paper which is not fountain pen friendly) and a mechanical pencil, with which I also write copious notes.

 

Given my daily usage, you can appreciate why I was naturally attracted to the concept of the Desiderata pen, and jumped at the chance to purchase one; and why I am currently interested in this thread and discussion on the Zebra G titanium version.

 

I have only had the Desiderata for a month and so still on my first nib. I fill this with either the Pelikan 4001 or Montblanc Mystery Black. Given my dip pen routine, where I dip the nib in a bowl of distilled water and wipe the nib after each sentence, I found myself adopting a similar routine with the Desiderata. Before writing, I dip the Zebra G in the bowl of water simply to disturb any dried ink between the nib and feed, and I do the same at the end of my writing with the pen, where after I wipe the nib and put the pen away for the day. The Desiderata starts every time I use it and the nib looks and works as well as it did on day one. I will definitely order another pen when there are some available, and fit it with one of the Zebra G titanium nibs to see whether it really does last 4 times longer than its chrome covered sibling.

 

Oh, I use distilled water because the water in my area is hard and I don't want to chance deposits left in my precious fountain pens or feeds. I also put a single drop of washing up liquid in the same said bowl. This is the exactly the same liquid I have used for years flushing my fountain pens.

 

Pavoni.

[Icywolfe]

I put my Ackermanpump pen flat as if I put it nib up it will leak from the back...... yeah some great Quality Control.

 

I might try the water trick. Thanks!

[ainterne]

(pavoni)

Thank you for the really nice note. You are obviously quite a skilled penman. I am very jealous of your Conid Bulkfiller. I use Diamine personally, but will have to try the Pelikan 4001 blue-black. I also clean my pens with a little washing up liquid. I have not tried it in my dipping water.

 

Icywolfe

Yes, I understand about the Ackermanpump. I have also experienced all the nightmares that are associated with that pen. And lets face it, it's not really a pen.... It's tube of metal with a piece of rubber hose inside. It's awful. I have shared my views about the Ackerman in another thread.

 

Yes please try the water... It's not so much of a trick as a necessity with dip nibs.

 

The actual correct way of doing it is moisten a paper towel with saliva and wipe down the nib top and underside and allow it to dry for a minute or two. The saliva will actually coat the metal with a protein pellicle that helps to render the metal hydrophilic (fluid loving). The ink should now adhere without any problem.

I use a Q-tip sometimes.... its why the monks in the old films would be seen putting the nib of their quill in their mouths before writing. If your nib and mouth are clean then perhaps you could try it, but water seems to do the trick for the purposes of getting these nibs working.

 

Please let us know how you get on with the water... remember to write on a piece of scrap paper or towel before actually using the pen to write normally with. It's just to let the excess water soak off on something else other than your writing.

 

Phil

 

[Intellidepth]

intellidepth has been conducting experiments with adding luster and gum arabic to inks (though I can't remember which of those subforums it's in... )

Necessary clarification: Xanthan, not gum arabic. They perform differently. Don't know the first thing about gum arabic but what very little I've read I wouldn't put it in an fp. It's tree sap. However I plead ignorance on that topic!

 

On the other hand, Xanthan creates a liquid gel-type formation stable in pH's 1-13. Search for "glitterati" to find the thread.

 

Xanthan works *beautifully* for dip nibs when blended with normal fp ink. It's also available at grocery stores in the gluten free section (at least in Aus). Dunno about IG inks - check the khymos web link in the "glitterati" thread to see if there are any synergistic reactions with ingredients IG may be made of.

 

Regarding fp's, I'm doing kill-the-pen dehydration tests right now in Jinhao fp's and will update the "glitterati" thread in a few weeks. After which I might, just might, venture into using xanthan (no luster!) in much, much, smaller doses than I've used for luster suspension to slightly increase viscosity for runny fp inks in my vintage waterman. Jinhaos first!

Edited February 24, 2015 by Intellidepth

[Limner]

Necessary clarification: Xanthan, not gum arabic. They perform differently. Don't know the first thing about gum arabic but what very little I've read I wouldn't put it in an fp. It's tree sap. However I plead ignorance on that topic!

 

On the other hand, Xanthan creates a liquid gel-type formation stable in pH's 1-13. Search for "glitterati" to find the thread.

 

Xanthan works *beautifully* for dip nibs when blended with normal fp ink. It's also available at grocery stores in the gluten free section (at least in Aus). Dunno about IG inks - check the khymos web link in the "glitterati" thread to see if there are any synergistic reactions with ingredients IG may be made of.

 

Regarding fp's, I'm doing kill-the-pen dehydration tests right now in Jinhao fp's and will update the "glitterati" thread in a few weeks. After which I might, just might, venture into using xanthan (no luster!) in much, much, smaller doses than I've used for luster suspension to slightly increase viscosity for runny fp inks in my vintage waterman. Jinhaos first!

 

Whoops! Sorry, intellidepth--I somehow mentally switched those two around. I know gum arabic is used in traditional (i.e., dip pen) ink recipes, but I've never really had the need to thicken a FP ink. I should just get some GA and do some experiments. I've got a few pens I can spare.

[ainterne]

I got my Gum Arabic, mixed tiny bit in a glass, added a coupe of spots of washing up liquid. Mixed it well, and that was that....great......superb li was easier to use.... i like it.... If anyone wants to see I can take a few pics of the writing.............

[pavoni]

I got my Gum Arabic, mixed tiny bit in a glass, added a coupe of spots of washing up liquid. Mixed it well, and that was that....great......superb li was easier to use.... i like it.... If anyone wants to see I can take a few pics of the writing.............

Yes please ainterne. Also, I noted in another thread that you were trying different nibs in our Desiderata! Any joy with either of those Waterman nibs?

 

Pavoni

[ainterne]

Hi....so I was thinking about this and it occurred to me what exactly I could show. So I have mixed a few pics up.

 

1: The nibs and I have picked two that are both about 3 weeks old. As you can see i don't get rust on them.

 

2: The width of the line I am getting using the Gum Arabic. Let me say that I am using a Quink bottle as my water dipping bottle. The Gum Arabic is like dust in the form that I purchased. I added a very small amount of the dust. The difference is obvious in that the ink seems to flow much better and I don't get skipping.

I can get a consistent line of 3.8 mm down the page from top to bottom. The paper I used intentionally was a parchment paper that's quite rough to write on and ink hungry.

 

3: I don't write like the quick shot I took...I purposely was pressing a little harder and really just painting the ink onto the page... that's what it felt like.. the point I guess, is that I didn't have to go slowly, in fact I was trying to write quite quickly just to see if I could get skipping....+ I am not bothered about treating the nib badly as I am about to throw these two out. That was on Rhodia.

 

4: I did fill one of the Waterman pens I have and happy to report no adverse effects to the pen or nib.

What would happen if I added much more of the Gum Arabic? No sure....but I have a feeling it probably wouldn't be good.

 

So my conclusion is that a very small amount of Gum Arabic is not a bad thing and obviously helps.

I wanted to do some better examples, but I have had no spare time this week...

 

I did plan to do a full comparison of the Desiderata pen and one of my Waterman 52's. I just need to get some time

 

I do like the Titanium nibs color on the Green Desiderata.

 

[Intellidepth]

Nice pics, thanks for sharing them.

[Goudy]

Not owning a Desiderata (yet), I decided to experiment with the Zebra G Titanium in an old eyedropper fountain pen (a "Meyer & Thalheimer" with a worn nib). Although the Zebra G seemed to be a snug fit on the feed, there were two problems: the feed wasn't keeping the nib wet enough to prevent railroading, and anything more than a slight pressure during writing would cause the nib to pivot upwards a couple of millimetres from the feed, stopping the ink flow altogether.

 

A solution that seems to work quite well is to use a strip of thin clear plastic (cut from a salad container) as a sort of overfeed. You assemble the pen by sandwiching the nib between the underfeed and the makeshift overfeed and pushing all three items together into the front of the section. The overfeed wedges the nib in place and prevents it pivoting, and also keeps the nib wet enough to prevent railroading (most of the time).

 

Here are some pictures:

 

http://i.imgur.com/JSvluSU.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/SaPwGry.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/0dmS39T.jpg

[pavoni]

Ingenious Goudy. Well done in solving your experiment.

 

Oh the tortuous dream of owning the perfect (flex) nib and feed combo in the perfect pen to match one's writing style.

 

Given your attractive handwriting, you would really appreciate the Desiderata pens. Until then, enjoy your Goudy Eyedropper

 

Pavoni.

[Goudy]

Thanks, pavoni.

 

A few notes which may be helpful for fellow experimenters:

 

The Zebra G is wider than a typical No.2 fountain pen nib - closer to a No.4. The best donor bodies might therefore be eyedroppers with feeds and sections sized for No.4 nibs. The eyedropper design makes it a lot easier to remove the feed for adjustment or nib replacement.

 

The Zebra G is also longer than typical fountain pen nibs, so choose a donor body that still caps with the new, longer nib in place.

 

The length of the overfeed determines the wetness of the nib. With an overfeed that goes almost to the tip, the pen dripped constantly when held vertically with the nib down. Shortening the overfeed so that it about half covers the vent hole (as in the pictures) seems to be a good compromise: no blobbing (except for the usual eyedropper thing of blobbing when nearly empty) and only occasional railroading - when pushing the flex hard while writing fast.

[Kataphract]

My understanding is that TiN (not to be confused with tin) is a coating to make the surface both smoother and last longer of whatever it is on. In this case, the same underpinnings of a normal Zebra G. The whole thing is not Titanium. Last I looked on Amazon, if I recall the prices correctly, it was $11 for ten regular Zebra G, $33 for ten Titanium Zebra G. So I guess the real question is do they last at least three times as long? Four? Sounds like they are at least marginally worth it. But I still have my original Zebra G in my prototype Daedalus, and it's basically sitting around forlornly waiting for me to wake up early enough to beat the east coast stampede to buy out the latest shipment of De Atramentis Document ink before I even check my email announcing it is back in stock (and back out by the time I wake up here on the west coast). I suppose I should get a set for normal dip holders anyway.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Kataphract