Thoughts On 2 Types Of Lower-Case "f"

[NewPenMan]

In the image, we have 2 letter "f"s, the left one written the way most of us learned in gradeschool. The right hand one is a form I've been using for a couple of years.

 

The right-hand seems to flow better to me; it's all forward motion, whereas the left-hand one has that inflection point before continuing to the right, and this involves, in my head, a loss of momentum.

 

So my question is, what are thoughts on the relative merits of these 2 ways of writing 'f' ?

 

for the most part, the right-hand one does a good job of being f, except that sometimes it doesn't quite make it in terms of recognition. Being in a word like 'coffee' helps it. The one on the left looks more f-ish to me, somehow.

 

I'm interested in others' thoughts on this f issue. Thank you!

 

http://www.coffeeonmars.com/screenshots/f_or_f.jpg

[Cryptos]

Interesting question. Over the last few weeks I have been teaching myself to stop doing the one on the right (my normal 'f') and start again with the one on the left. The transition hasn't been difficult, suggesting I probably learned that way in the first place. It does slow me down ever so slightly, but I think that is a good thing for me. The one on the right can get a bit sloppy.

[ac12]

Personally, I like the idea of personalizing your writing.

Example, I don't like the script Q, it looks like the number 2, so I write it like a printed "Q". Similarly with the upper case S, I don't like the script S, so I write it like a printed "S".

BUT, there should be a reasonably decent recognition of what the letter is, or a reader (other than you) could be confused.

I can see if the assender in your "f" is not tall enough, it could be mistaken for a "j".

[NewPenMan]

good points...strange, I feel about "Q" and "S" exactly as you do! I'm threatening to try to develop my own one day, perhaps based off some other script model...

[ac12]

I also don't like the script Z, but have not figured out what to do about that letter.

[NewPenMan]

you mean the one that's like Z for Zorro? or the one that's basically a larger version of the lower-case z?

 

I like the lower-case z, and I'm ambivalent about the uppercase one, but I usually make it like the printed Z, maybe with some contour added.

[Ccnati]

I was taught the right hand one on the one day of dedicated writing teaching we had back in third grade (I'm in 11th grade now)

[Biber]

Interesting, and I thought I was the only one who did Fs like the one on the right. Actually in German script (Sutterlein, Kurrende) that figure as I understand it would actually be an H. But i digress.

 

Individualizing your cursive script, I have found, is a way to clean up your handwriting. I did it myself and my cursive isn't anywhere near as sloppy as it once was. I guess I realized that I was essentially fighting the script trying to follow exactly its prescribed outlines. So, as I have no aspirations of being a caligrapher in my normal day to day writing, I decided to shop around for a few alternatice letter characters, and introduce certain breaks and retakes in my writing. And I haven't looked back. The switch from the first F which I was taught, to the second one seemjs to have been natural evolution that I felt more comfortable with.

[NewPenMan]

I was taught the right hand one on the one day of dedicated writing teaching we had back in third grade (I'm in 11th grade now)

this is very interesting to me, Ccnati, partly because of your age and partly to know that there still IS "writing teaching" going on in the age of kids getting keyboarding skills training.

 

Can you remember if they told you why you should make your "f" that way?

[NewPenMan]

Interesting, and I thought I was the only one who did Fs like the one on the right. Actually in German script (Sutterlein, Kurrende) that figure as I understand it would actually be an H. But i digress.

I can see "H" now that you mention it. I was trying to clearly show my stroke, so that "f" is a bit more loose than I'd write it if I were writing for real..but that form as an "H" makes sense in terms of pen tip flow. Any time you must change direction, especially when a hard stop is involved, for me, is much more difficult than forward flow.

 

and I don't mean "more difficult" as though I'm lifting a refrigerator with my little toe; I just mean anything that makes smooth flow less smooth.

 

Isn't cursive all about efficiency, minimal pen-tip lifting? maximal legibility and comfort for the writer who may be at it for hours?

[Ccnati]

this is very interesting to me, Ccnati, partly because of your age and partly to know that there still IS "writing teaching" going on in the age of kids getting keyboarding skills training.

 

Can you remember if they told you why you should make your "f" that way?

All the teacher did was put up a slide if the cursive alphabet she had been given and gave us some worksheets to do in cursive. Mind you I don't know if this still happens (things may have changed in 8 years) but to answer your question it was more of a "because that's what the slide says" type thing.

[Biber]

All the teacher did was put up a slide if the cursive alphabet she had been given and gave us some worksheets to do in cursive. Mind you I don't know if this still happens (things may have changed in 8 years) but to answer your question it was more of a "because that's what the slide says" type thing.

 

I wonder what that alphabet was. A quick internet search didn't come up with any written cursive alphabets where the F employs a back loop. There were a couple of cursive style fonts that did though. I should think that a teacher would know the difference though (I know, silly me).

[NewPenMan]

I find this very interesting. .. So, 8 years ago was '06-'07... computers everywhere. ..iPhone came on the scene june 07...

 

I'd think any handwriting instruction would emphasize speed, brevity and clarity.. So even if teachers didn't vocalize it, maybe that explains teaching that "f" form?

[bokchoy]

Interesting, and I thought I was the only one who did Fs like the one on the right. Actually in German script (Sutterlein, Kurrende) that figure as I understand it would actually be an H.

 

It's interesting to see these different interpretations. I was taught the 'f' on the left. The first time I saw the 'f' on the right was in an old (English) document where it was being used for the long 's'!

 

e.g. Right-hand 'f' being used as BOTH long 's' and the first half of 'ff' from the U.S. Declaration of Independence:

 

http://i.imgur.com/brFFLfH.png

Edited January 9, 2015 by bokchoy

[Ccnati]

I find this very interesting. .. So, 8 years ago was '06-'07... computers everywhere. ..iPhone came on the scene june 07...

 

I'd think any handwriting instruction would emphasize speed, brevity and clarity.. So even if teachers didn't vocalize it, maybe that explains teaching that "f" form?

I don't know... I saw it again on a poster of "the cursive alphabet" that my fifth grade writing teacher had on her wall. Even then, it was rare for someone to write in cursive and she was shocked when I took my fifth grade writing test in cursive...

[NewPenMan]

More I think about it, the more I realize I don't care for many of the upper cursive letterforms! I end up using their print counterparts and that ends up looking choppy and inconsistent.

 

I am trying to incorporate some more articulated ( ornate? ) forms. . Mixed results there. .maybe the pen "knows" when ornate is not native to the penholder.. or maybe it's just practice. .

[graystranger]

Just found this topic. I too do not like the cursive capital Q or G. I too usually write the Q like a printed character. I now write the G like a large printed lower case G, and I like it much better. I usually write the capital S too, especially with a stub or flex nib. I have started using the f you show in the first post, but revert to what I have been using for 60 years. I like the second one if the loops are both tall. It just flows so smoothly when you write it.

 

My capital N and M look more like the printed versions too. I like the sharp turns and curve my beginning and ending lines, especially with a stub nib.

 

I enjoy perusing others handwriting to find alternate cursive characters to what I learned to write. Great topic.

[NewPenMan]

seems to be what I'm doing, too.. I've never felt 100% comfy using print forms when writing cursive, but it's been a choice of legibility + speed and not looking stupid...prbly the Cap "Q" that looks like a "2" is the one that most makes me reach for the maalox...

 

Does anyone know just how 'f' came to be used as an 's' ? It's not in all cases, and I have seen some words from that era penned with both 'f' and 's' for the letter 's'

 

Dealer's choice, or some other method governing this?

[bokchoy]

...

 

Does anyone know just how 'f' came to be used as an 's' ? It's not in all cases, and I have seen some words from that era penned with both 'f' and 's' for the letter 's'

 

Dealer's choice, or some other method governing this?

Maybe it's the other way around with 's' coming to stand for 'f'

 

Anyway, my modern eyes keep telling me that picture says "fufferable" so I consider both forms equally f-like.

[Randal6393]

Over the centuries, the long "s" was often used. Can be confused with the "f" easily. Grab a facsimile hand-written copy of the Declaration of Independence and see how many different "s"'s you can find. Most of the scribes were pretty flexible.

 

For modern cursive, well, ... I don't use long "s", but can't see why it isn't kosher. Certainly adds a flair to one's handwriting.

 

Enjoy,