Noodler's waterproof ink got on my shirt, but. . .

[Centurion]

got it off!! I think the cap is on my FP but actually the cap is posted and put it in my shirt pocket. The FP is nib exposed so after a few minutes I feel wetness. A nice big blue spot on my shirt, and since the ink is permanent/waterproof I think it's ruined, but with some bleach it comes out!?!? Most, 99% of the ink is off my shirt!

 

Does this mean Noodler's ink is not waterproof?? I thought once it minds to celluose it won't let go. Perhaps my cotton shirt is much different than the celluose in paper???

[Guest Denis Richard]

Not all Noodler's Inks are permamnent. Only a few, including black, several blues, brown, etc... If you have the standard blue, it is not waterproof.

[Centurion]

Not all Noodler's Inks are permamnent. Only a few, including black, several blues, brown, etc... If you have the standard blue, it is not waterproof.

The one that got on my shirt was one of their waterproof inks. Does that mean the ink is now not waterproof, that waterproofness is not stable and that the ink can lose that attribute??

[Guest Denis Richard]

mmm... that calls for extra test

 

If you could do the bleach test on a piece of paper may be...

 

Denis.

[papyrus]

The one that got on my shirt was one of their waterproof inks.  Does that mean the ink is now not waterproof, that waterproofness is not stable and that the ink can lose that attribute??

There used to be a contest: if you can erase Noodler's Black from a check (all procedures allowed including bleach) they will pay you $1000. While the contest only mentioned black, I'm pretty sure it would cause a major uproar (and some prize money for you) if you could do this for one of the permanent blues.

[wimg]

I found the waterproof blue washes off of everything easily, but cellulose paper. There it won´t wash off.

 

My shirts were fine too, after washing, phew .

 

It doesn´t hold wel on cotton- or linen-based paper either, btw.

 

Warm regards, Wim

[southpaw]

So, are there good fp papers that are cellulose-based, or are most nice papers cotton-based, or at least with a significant cotton content (25%)? . . . . Sounds like we might need a range of experiments.

[Johnny Appleseed]

I know that Nathan designed Noodlers permanent inks to stick to cellulose paper and little else, so it would not stain plastic, celluloid, BHR, etc. I have noticed that it tends to clean off hands and desks very well. I haven't had the experience of it on clothes, but I will try a few experiments with some rag-bag shirts.

 

I just began an experiment putting Noodlers Black, Legal Lapis and Iraqi Indigo on some Strathmore "Pure Cotton" paper, with a couple of "control" inks (vintage Quink turquoise and Diamine Viloet - what I had in the pocket). They went into a water-cup at 10:15. Results and scans to be posted tomorrow.

 

John "Laridae"

[KCat]

it's ruined, but with some bleach it comes out!?!? Most, 99% of the ink is off my shirt!

umm..

 

is it stupid for me to point this out?

 

water+bleach does not equal water. Therefore I don't think you can make any judgement about it's permanence based on this test.

[wimg]

hi John,

I know that Nathan designed Noodlers permanent inks to stick to cellulose paper and little else, so it would not stain plastic, celluloid, BHR, etc. I have noticed that it tends to clean off hands and desks very well. I haven't had the experience of it on clothes, but I will try a few experiments with some rag-bag shirts.

 

I just began an experiment putting Noodlers Black, Legal Lapis and Iraqi Indigo on some Strathmore "Pure Cotton" paper, with a couple of "control" inks (vintage Quink turquoise and Diamine Viloet - what I had in the pocket). They went into a water-cup at 10:15. Results and scans to be posted tomorrow.

 

John "Laridae"

Looking forward to those test results!

 

Warm regards, Wim

[wimg]

it's ruined, but with some bleach it comes out!?!?  Most, 99% of the ink is off my shirt!

umm..

 

is it stupid for me to point this out?

 

water+bleach does not equal water. Therefore I don't think you can make any judgement about it's permanence based on this test.

Hi KCat,

 

Nathan's waterproof inks are supposed to be bleach proof too...

 

Warm regards, Wim

[KendallJ]

I know that Nathan designed Noodlers permanent inks to stick to cellulose paper and little else, so it would not stain plastic, celluloid, BHR, etc.

I believe it was a cellulose catalyze reaction or enzyme that created the permanence in presence of cellulose...?

[papyrus]

Resistance against bleach will be limited. If you use an inorganic pigment you get very good bleach resistance but it could clog the feed (particle suspension rather than dye solution) and may also wash off (no covalent bonds to cellulose). If you use an organic dye which reacts with cellose (as the permanent Noodler's inks apparently do) its resistance against chemical attack (oxidation=bleach, acids, etc) must be limited. Just use something strong enough and those organic chromophores don't stand a chance. However, this will also attack the cellulose itself so that tampering with the document will become obvious. But that does not really help your shirt...

[KCat]

Resistance against bleach will be limited.

I was having trouble imagining an FP ink standing up to bleach regardless. Though i couldn't begin to express why. I would have chalked it up to a housewife's experience with the range of effects bleach has on all sorts of materials. Not the least of which is cotton.

 

what is Nathan's claim about all this WRT dry time? IOW, is he saying that it is bleach-proof (or resistent?) after drying and in this case was the ink on the shirt allowed to dry completely (presumably, react completely with the cellulose) before an attempt was made to wash it out? I'm no chemist but would guess that there reaction time might be almost instantaneous - but *not* instantaneous?

[Guest Denis Richard]

I haven't try any other waterproof Noodler, but I can tell you that the Black is resistant to bleach. It is also resistant to anything we could find in the building that did not dissolve the paper.

[Centurion]

I found the waterproof blue washes off of everything easily, but cellulose paper. There it won´t wash off.

 

My shirts were fine too, after washing, phew .

 

It doesn´t hold wel on cotton- or linen-based paper either, btw.

 

Warm regards, Wim

Hi Wim, you too, huh? Pretty careless, thought the cap was on but wasn't and I put it in my shirt.

 

 

The shirt was 100% cotton, I believe.

[wimg]

I found the waterproof blue washes off of everything easily, but cellulose paper. There it won´t wash off.

 

My shirts were fine too, after washing, phew .

 

It doesn´t hold wel on cotton- or linen-based paper either, btw.

 

Warm regards, Wim

Hi Wim, you too, huh? Pretty careless, thought the cap was on but wasn't and I put it in my shirt.

 

 

The shirt was 100% cotton, I believe.

I did some careless filling of a pen to cause the accident to happen .

Warm regards, Wim

[Johnny Appleseed]

Ok, here are results of my test.

 

I soaked samples of Noodlers permanent black, Legal Lapis and Iraqi Indigo on Strathmore "Pure Cotton" paper, for a total of 5 hours, along with "control" samples of Diamine Violet and Vintage Parker Super Quink Permanent turquiose (basically the pens I had on me). The paper was put in a cup of water covering 2/3 of the page, to compare the unsoaked ink with the soaked.

 

As you can see, the Noodlers permanent inks held up quite well. Black and Legal Lapis both had a tiny bit of ink smearing as a result of the soak, but only a tiny bit. The Quink is almost completely washed off, while the Diamine is badly washed and smeared but still somewhat legible.

 

Nathan has said his permanent inks do not like heavily coated papers. It would be interesting to do tests on other types and brands of paper.

 

http://fp.vandebilt.net/fpn/jc/lastscan-50-short.jpg

 

John "Laridae"

[southpaw]

THANKS for the very interesting test results!

[Centurion]

Ok, here are results of my test.

 

I soaked samples of Noodlers permanent black, Legal Lapis and Iraqi Indigo on Strathmore "Pure Cotton" paper, for a total of 5 hours, along with "control" samples of Diamine Violet and Vintage Parker Super Quink Permanent turquiose (basically the pens I had on me). The paper was put in a cup of water covering 2/3 of the page, to compare the unsoaked ink with the soaked.

 

As you can see, the Noodlers permanent inks held up quite well. Black and Legal Lapis both had a tiny bit of ink smearing as a result of the soak, but only a tiny bit. The Quink is almost completely washed off, while the Diamine is badly washed and smeared but still somewhat legible.

 

Nathan has said his permanent inks do not like heavily coated papers. It would be interesting to do tests on other types and brands of paper.

 

http://fp.vandebilt.net/fpn/jc/lastscan-50-short.jpg

 

John "Laridae"

Another experiment would be to put them in bleach. Nathan also said that writing checks with his FP ink is safer than with ballpoint. First let me say I am glad the ink got out of my shirt. :-) But if simply dipping my check in bleach "washes" away the ink then we don't have a safety ink. I suppose if the bleach also dissolved the check alone with the ink then that would be fine. :-)