How Do Dealers Know What To Sell Their Vintage Pens For?

[JotterAddict62]

Greetings All

A thought just popped into my little head. [ You know when that little mouse on the treadmill starts running.]

 

How do people know what price to put on a restored pen that they have? Let's start with pen dealers, you have a vintage pen [ brand X ]

Do you take the price that you paid for it [ unrestored ] add your time and cost for parts and you put price $$$ on it. I look at pen websites that sell vintage pens and I am trying to get a feel on what is the average price of a certain pen model. I know that there are so many different pen brands, models, colors what have you.

 

Then there is ebay, I see when the seller says that they have no clue on the pen that they are selling, but how do they determine what price they put on it. Do they do a little research or do they just hope that they double their cost what they paid for the pen?

 

 

This question goes for anything out there that is being resold online or in your local antique/resale shop. How do you know what price to put on the item that you are going to sell?

 

It is an interesting question for me. I will have to do a whole lot of research this winter on this subject for myself..

 

 

Ken the Jotteraddict

 

[ac12]

Market price (do your research)

If you overpaid, and your cost + expenses is higher than the market price; you either don't sell, because you are above market, or you take a loss and sell at market or below.

 

And with eBay, whatever the market will do.

A item may go on with a $10 starting, and the market/bidders will drive it up to the final selling price, whatever that price ends up being. That ending price could be under, at or over market price. There is no way to predict what an eBay item may go for.

You could put a reserve to cover your cost, so you don't loose $ on the sale, in case the item does not get bid up as much as you hope it will.

[Cryptos]

As far as I can tell there are two levels.

 

The first is based on the general market price, with maybe a little added to try and push the market. The second is when a dealer has built up a reputation and believes that he or she can now charge whatever they like, even if it is miles above the general market price. I have spotted at least 5 dealers who behave in exactly this way and it kind of disgusts me a bit. Reputations should not lead to 100% (or more) inflation on prices. However, there are buyers out there who also believe that it should and they are the targets that fuel that particular insidious market.

 

Nib grinding aside, restoring a pen can (mostly) only ever reach a certain level. There is no beyond. It is all Emperor's new clothes.

 

Now there will be the usual predictable people who will no doubt be along soon to tell you I am being overly cynical. Don't listen. Do your own research.

 

<talking about straight sales here, not auctions. Though auctions do get similarly affected at times>

[JotterAddict62]

Greetings All

A thought just popped into my little head. [ You know when that little mouse on the treadmill starts running.]

 

How do people know what price to put on a restored pen that they have? Let's start with pen dealers, you have a vintage pen [ brand X ]

Do you take the price that you paid for it [ unrestored ] add your time and cost for parts and you put price $$$ on it. I look at pen websites that sell vintage pens and I am trying to get a feel on what is the average price of a certain pen model. I know that there are so many different pen brands, models, colors what have you.

 

Then there is ebay, I see when the seller says that they have no clue on the pen that they are selling, but how do they determine what price they put on it. Do they do a little research or do they just hope that they double their cost what they paid for the pen?

 

 

This question goes for anything out there that is being resold online or in your local antique/resale shop. How do you know what price to put on the item that you are going to sell?

 

It is an interesting question for me. I will have to do a whole lot of research this winter on this subject for myself..

 

 

Ken the Jotteraddict

 

One other thought on this.

 

How did people decide on price of an item before the internet ?

This is a question to think about. You can now check the world on an item for a base price, wholesale price & retail price.

Find an item that you have write down the price you would sell it for then check the web. Or go to an antique/resale shop and

look at an item and see what the shop dealers are selling the item for then check the web.

I was at a antique shop this past summer that the dealer has been in the resale of vintage & antique wood furniture for maybe 30 - 40 years. Now how does he determine what to price the items he has in his two massive poll barn buildings?

[georges zaslavsky]

Market price (do your research)

If you overpaid, and your cost + expenses is higher than the market price; you either don't sell, because you are above market, or you take a loss and sell at market or below.

 

And with eBay, whatever the market will do.

A item may go on with a $10 starting, and the market/bidders will drive it up to the final selling price, whatever that price ends up being. That ending price could be under, at or over market price. There is no way to predict what an eBay item may go for.

You could put a reserve to cover your cost, so you don't loose $ on the sale, in case the item does not get bid up as much as you hope it will.

Very true and what people value the item, is generally the value of the market when it is in flawless condition. Some brands and some items are never decreasing in terms of price that the case of vintage MBs before 1984 , vintage and pre 1998-2000 Pels, pre 2005 Omas, pre 2000 Montegrappa, pre 2000 Waterman, pre 1970 Sheaffer, older Ancoras, older Columbus, Soennecken, Osmia, Wahl, Chilton, Tibaldi, Astoria, Matador, Mentmore, Swan, Namiki and Danitrio. Ebay is ebay where you see a lot of amateurs passing themselves for professionals and often selling average quality stuff. I don't consider someone selling on ebay as a true professional especially when he doesn't sell and restore pens no more what his feedback is and especially when he doesn't give a warranty on what he sells. When you want perfect condition things, you pay a little more and buy from a pro but a least you have a peace of mind that you have a properly restored pen and a real warranty.

[fabri00]

Selling niche products like vintrage fountain pens needs experience and skill.

If someone sell vintage fountain pens probably follows various forums, markets, pen auctions or any event related to fountain pens, as we everybody does here.

Basing on that he could have an idea of the price for each item.

Is the same for evry item not having a price list, like vintage clocks, cars, and so on.

I'll not relay on ebay prices, as it easly possible to buy the same item on ebay for a price, but also for 1/3 of it, using a bit of patience.

 

I see for example old watermans 515 sold on ebay at Euro 70/80 and I bought one 2 weks ago for Euro 35, and it was in quite good conditions. This is just an example.

[northlodge]

As far as I can tell there are two levels.

 

The first is based on the general market price, with maybe a little added to try and push the market. The second is when a dealer has built up a reputation and believes that he or she can now charge whatever they like, even if it is miles above the general market price. I have spotted at least 5 dealers who behave in exactly this way and it kind of disgusts me a bit. Reputations should not lead to 100% (or more) inflation on prices. However, there are buyers out there who also believe that it should and they are the targets that fuel that particular insidious market.

 

Nib grinding aside, restoring a pen can (mostly) only ever reach a certain level. There is no beyond. It is all Emperor's new clothes.

 

Now there will be the usual predictable people who will no doubt be along soon to tell you I am being overly cynical. Don't listen. Do your own research.

 

<talking about straight sales here, not auctions. Though auctions do get similarly affected at times>

 

I think this ignores a very important issue; the definition of restored

 

There are those on ebay who regard a restored pen as having a new ink sac. There are others who try with varying levels of success to restore the pen to original factory condition.

 

Those who succeed in achieving the above can reasonably expect to have items of higher value.

 

 

There is another model (Firebreakline, etc) where the stupidly high price has no link with real market value. They sell enough to show that they have a workable business model, but their quoted prices should never be considered achievable.

[Cryptos]

 

I think this ignores a very important issue; the definition of restored

 

I was taking that into account with...

 

 

Nib grinding aside, restoring a pen can (mostly) only ever reach a certain level. There is no beyond.

 

A fully restored pen is a fully restored pen. You cannot go beyond fully restored by definition really. However, there are some well known names who trade on their reputation and often you can find they are selling items at double the expected price for a fully restored version.

 

Someone will come along soon and say everything is priced and sells at what people are prepared to pay.

 

To answer the OP though, I would guess that a re-seller wants to make outlay back plus profit and overhead. How much margin depends on how much they think people will pay, but not always, there are some genuinely reasonable sellers around. Then there are some who just beggar belief, but I suppose there may be enough suckers out there to make it worth their while putting extravagant price tags on everything.

 

Saw a Mabie Todd BB the other day that was being sold for more than the one I have (which was fully restored BTW) without a nib! And the seller had the cojones to say that it was in great condition but wasn't sure if it still worked - not being an expert and all. Had to laugh.

Edited October 9, 2014 by Cryptos

[Zookie]

After a lifetime spent at auctions, fleamarkets, etc., I've found that most dealers will try to at least double what they paid for an item, regardless of what it is or it's condition.

Be careful and look for someone who specializes in what ever it is they're selling.

Many "specialists" get their info from e-bay, or the public library.

[JotterAddict62]

I have been going to auctions in my area about 5 yrs now and I just look to buy pens.

Now the main pen brand around here is Parker to be had and some of the other top 4 pen brands.

Now this year the average price I paid for a 3rd gen. Vac. is about $30 - 35 for an unrestored Parker.

Now before I moved onto Parker fountain pens in my collecting; Jotters, P45's, P21's, P51's & Vac's.

 

I did not know squat about Vac's 2 yrs ago when I picked up a

Parker Burgundy Pearl 1 st Gen. Vacumatic with the name [Harvey Millard ] on it.

 

Paid about $25 at an auction and sold it on ebay for $51. [ someone got a great deal ]

Now I know now that I did not sell it a a good price for me for the unrestored pen.

I have come a long way since then with the research I have done on buying pens,

but I have much to learn on reselling.

 

Now I wish that I still had that Vac. That is the learning curve for me to keep learning.

I still don't know too much on other pen brands except Parker. Need to become more informed

on the other brands out there when I go to the next auction..

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f239/Jotteraddict62/100_1690_zps5f8dfe53.jpg

 

 

I get a kick on these books you see about antiques and price list on the items that people

put out. Do these people know anything about anything? I mean nice photos in some books and others

just a very small information on an item. I was just at an auction last Sunday and there were books on antiques [ a whole series ] from 1994 - 2002 [i think] did not give the books to much thought.

Edited October 9, 2014 by JotterAddict62

[gweimer1]

If you consider averages, then the market is probably fairly predictable, but I have seen in my limited time here, some wide swings in price for the same items. Hundreds of Esterbrooks, all ostensibly in the same condition, and prices swing from $10 to $50 for the same basic pen. These are not the professionally ordered and restored pens, either. These are just random pens, with reasonably nice pictures. I picked up a Dollar Pen at the last minute on an auction for $13, simply because nobody had bid. It's a beautiful pen, and my current daily. A week later, another one goes for $40 with no distinguishing characteristics.

I've paid $60 for a Parker 51, and $17 for another, without any real solid differences in description.

[Minty]

They charge what the market will bear.

 

Don't start vast projects with half-vast ideas.

[Cryptos]

 

They charge what the market will bear.

 

This is not the whole story.

[inkstainedruth]

This is an interesting question -- one which I've sort been asking myself a fair amount recently.

I've been watching a few Ebay auctions for which the pens did not make their reserve, were relisted, and then closed at an even *lower* price the next time around. I mean, if it didn't meet its reserve at price X, and then the next time it ends at half or two-thirds of X, wouldn't that tell the seller *something*? Makes me wonder what the sellers have been smoking....

Then there's a Pelikan that keeps getting relisted over and over. It has a really nifty nib on it, but is way beyond my price point. It hasn't sold and hasn't sold, and just keeps getting relisted. I thought the first time around that the price had dropped (a bit) -- but no, I think it's just a difference in the exchange rate.

We won't even talk about the Arnold pen/pencil combo for $149 US....

Ruth Morrisson aka inkstainedruth

[balson]

from watching and chatting with antique dealers i can tell you that many of them chat with each other to establish prices. you get to know who specializes in what and you can go over and ask them to value or history of an item. some antique dealers will price things of ebay, those seller will often price it off buy it now lots that dont actually sell.

 

there is definitely a difference between what sells easily at a flea market or antique store and what sells on ebay. beaten up wearevers that no one would ever buy on ebay will sell for $10 each at a flea market.

[JotterAddict62]

Let's say you are a pen dealer back before the internet or let's say no internet TODAY ,

 

how do you determine what to sell your vintage pens for what is your reference point?

 

I have been in shops in a 60 -70 mile radius of my home base [ Not every shop ] and I

 

rarely see pens anywhere that are worth for me to buy them. My Dad said the reason you can not find

 

pens is that you bought them all.... There was one shop that had a dealer with a 100 + Fp's , but for unrestored

 

pens the price was full retail. The sign he had on one of the display case said quote [ These were my Dad's pens

 

the prices are low as the pens are AS IS ] Well that shop is closing and the dealer has moved out.

 

So do I base what he had price wise to reflect what I would sell my pens cleaned and re sacked ?

 

We are all looking to make profit on anything that we sell....