Pilot-Namiki Blue Ink Vs. Blue-Black - Odor?

[kidde]

I believe its use was restricted due to workplace hazzards, not public health issues. Phenol is very useful for killing bacterial and fungal growths.

Lou is dead on with his comments.

 

Paul

[Drone]

May I ask how much you paid? Looking on that auction sight I see its about $30 a bottle shipped for blue.

 

Sure, no problem. On my OP here in this thread I said this:

 

 

I can buy the 350ml bottle of Blue-Black for less than $14 USD plus $12 USD tracked EMS express shipping per bottle from Japan. That comes to a little less than 4-cents per ml plus shipping. Probably the best per ml ink value world-wide given the quality of Pilot-Namiki inks. By comparison your average bottle of fountain pen ink costs around four or five-times more.

 

The actual price before shipping wasn't $14, it was $13.50; I was being lazy and rounded-up. So with the shipping it was $13.50 plus $12.00 tracked EMS shipping for a total of $25.50. I think the tracked EMS shipping to the U.S. is a couple of bucks (or so) more. The Engeika Japan site is where I purchased the ink direct, not from an ebaY auction. As I posted here earlier, below is the link to the Engeika site. Unfortunately, you have to make a user account in order to see the prices on the Engeika Web site (why do vendors do that?). There is a page on the Engeika site that clearly shows the shipping costs before you check-out.:

 

http://www.engeika.com/

 

Provided you have PayPal and you're shipping to your registered PayPal address - shopping with Engeika is a breeze. If you deviate from this simple purchase plan though - things get more complicated. This is my situation. But it is still possible buy provided you jump through a few hoops and roll over a couple of times.

 

Good luck, David

[Keyless Works]

Ah so if I sign in then I can see Pilot ink? I couldn't find it by just searching the site.

[Drone]

Ah so if I sign in then I can see Pilot ink? I couldn't find it by just searching the site.

 

Yes, make an account and all the pricing will be revealed on the Engeika site.

 

On bigger ticket items like high-end pens, Taizo may be willing to bargain a bit. For a bottle of ink, the price you pay will be the price shown. But buy a hundred bottles of ink and you you might be able to negotiate a better price

[Drone]

Here's the link to the Pilot Blue-Black ink on the Engeika site. But as mentioned before, you need to make an account with Engeika to see the page (which is just plain sales-prevention IMO, dumb).

 

http://www.engeika.com/product/936

[Keyless Works]

Awesome store. I am definitely placing my next ink order there.

[Drone]

Awesome store. I am definitely placing my next ink order there.

 

Yeah, Did you look at the price of Iroshizuku ink on the Engeika store? 50ml bottles are $13.50 USD each before shipping on from Engeika; the same ink is a whopping $28.00 bucks on the Goulet site.

 

But the problem for a small order is the shipping. Engeika lists the shipping weight of one bottle of Iroshizuku ink at 400g. The EMS tracked shipping price to the US is $13.00 for 301-501g and $16.00 for 503-601g.

 

The shipping prices on the Engeika site are found here:

 

http://www.engeika.com/help

 

Also, the shipping weight estimates on the Engeika site seem high. For-example the shipping weight of my 350ml bottle of Pilot ink was listed as 600g. Assuming ink has the same density as liquid water (1g/ml), the ink alone is 350g. That leaves 250g for the bottle and the box - which seems too high. Then again, that Iroshizuku glass bottle looks pretty thick and heavy so the listed 400g/bottle may be closer. I don't own any Iroshizuku ink, so I can't estimate further..

I'm pretty sure if you contact Taizo at Engeika by Email and work out something other than EMS for the shipping of bottles (plural) of ink, You will find a workable solution. I've heard others have done it. Perhaps standard mail works but costs a lot less. Regular mail between Japan and The U.S. is pretty risk-free.

 

Where I live I must have tracking so I can hold the dysfunctional Government-run postal system accountable, otherwise I'm shipping stuff into a black-hole. So I'm stuck with the higher cost EMS option from Engeika.

 

[Lou Erickson]

I admit, I'm probably going to order 18 or so different of the Iroshizuku inks from them, putting me over the $200 for free shipping. If you're getting free shipping, ship heavy things.

[Drone]

I admit, I'm probably going to order 18 or so different of the Iroshizuku inks from them, putting me over the $200 for free shipping. If you're getting free shipping, ship heavy things.

 

"I'll admit..." What is that Lou? Are you feeling ink-guilty Don't worry, we've all been there before.

 

I say go for it! There are far worse things in life to feel guilty about (not to imply that you actually did any of them).

 

Just send us a picture of the box with all the ink when you get it - so we can share in your guilt....

 

Have Fun, David

Edited October 3, 2014 by Drone

[Drone]

I got an Email (copy below) from Taizo Okagaki of Engeika confirming my suspicion that Pilot blue does not come in the big 350ml bottles; only red, black, and blue-black.

 

Meanwhile my 350ml bottle of Blue-Black from Engeika left Fukuoka last Friday. It should arrive this week. I'll post something here after I get give it a sniff.

 

-----------

 

Subject: Question: 350ml Bottle Pilot Blue-Color Ink (not Blue-Black)
From: engeika.finest.shop@gmail.com
To : Me
Date: 06 October 2014

Hello

Blue color is not made in this 350ml bottle only Black , blue black and red color

Thanks

Taizo

[Drone]

Howdy Folks,

 

Yesterday (10 Oct. 2014) after taking five days to move from the airport to my hands here in Jakarta, the 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black arrived from Engeika in Japan. Total shipping time was none days including one weekend.

 

I'm not going to do a review of the ink here, but I will comment briefly on my first impressions and of-course - how the ink smells. A few pics are below.

 

The bottle is fairly heavy glass, about 238mm (9.4") tall. The ink box is 252mm (9.9") tall by 62mm (2.4") square. The ink bottle was packaged well by Engeika. The shipment tracked faithfully all the way to delivery on both the Japanese and Indonesian EMS Web sites.

 

 

The bottle has a cream colored plastic cap that has a pull-ring. When you pull the ring, the plastic part that seals the cap strips off leaving a keyhole shaped hole that is obviously designed to ease pouring by shaping the stream of ink.

 

It seems the cap has some ability to be taken completely off - or something similar. I don't know why. The process of doing this involves pulling a plastic tab on a ring that goes around the cap. From there, I haven't got a clue. It has something to do with pushing down on the cap. At least that's the way it looks on the detailed instructions. Unfortunately for me, ALL the writing on the bottle and the box is in Japanese, which I cannot read.

 

 

BTW: If anyone is interested in reading and/or translating the writing on the box and the bottle, send me a PM or reply here and we can arrange to get higher resolution scans and photos to you.

 

 

• How does Pilot Blue-Black ink smell?

 

It smells "Very Faintly" of Phenol - nowhere near as strong an odor compared with Pilot Blue. That's kind of disappointing to me, I really like the inky smell of Pilot Blue.

 

• How does Pilot Blue-Black ink write?

 

Pretty good so-far. But I'm just getting started with this ink. Time will tell. I like the color a lot.

 

• Do I recommend Pilot Blue-Black ink?

 

So-far, yes! It is a bargain and the quality appears to be as good as Pilot Blue - which in my opinion is a superb ink.

 

Have Fun David

[Lou Erickson]

Interesting. The Pilot Blue-Black I have - the 30ml bottle! - smells just like the Namiki Blue. I don't have actual Pilot Blue, but thought the Namiki was the same.

 

You could add some phenol to get the smell..

[DavidCampen]

I just got a 350 ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black via Amazon. I was looking forward to the smell of phenol since that reminds me of the typical smell of fountain pen ink from decades past, but, alas, I cannot detect any odor of phenol from this ink.

 

As I recall, it takes ingestion or absorption of several grams or more of phenol to be fatal to an adult; much more than would have been in a bottle of ink back when inks contained phenol.

[Drone]

I just got a 350 ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black via Amazon. I was looking forward to the smell of phenol since that reminds me of the typical smell of fountain pen ink from decades past, but, alas, I cannot detect any odor of phenol from this ink.

 

As I recall, it takes ingestion or absorption of several grams or more of phenol to be fatal to an adult; much more than would have been in a bottle of ink back when inks contained phenol.

 

@DavidCampen,

 

You are correct about Pilot Blue-Black; while it is very much like Pilot/Namiki Blue in other respects, it does not have the stronger smell of Phenol (Carbolic Acid) that Pilot/Namiki Blue has. In my experience, this holds for all size bottles of Pilot Blue-Black, including the large 350ml bottles (which I own).

 

To help protect the ink and return the vintage odor of Phenol to Pilot Blue-Black, I add a small amount (around 2.5% by volume) of 4% aqueous Phenol solution to my 350ml bottles of Pilot Blue-Black. Phenol not only smells like vintage ink, it acts as a Biostatic agent to protect the ink against fungal and/or bacterial infection (a.k.a. SITB).

 

For a general consumer, Phenol is difficult to obtain in the U.S. This is because out-of-control Big Government has declared that Phenol is a "dangerous" thing - which is complete nonsense - a ruling based more in fear of Lawyers rather than actual Science.

 

Yes, Phenol can harm or kill you if fairly small amounts of the pure substance are consumed. But as a general consumer you will never encounter concentrated amounts of Phenol in the first place! I recall Phenol once being added to mouth wash and sore throat sprays. Not any more it seems.

 

The 4% Phenol solution I use comes from a California-based art-supply company called Natural Pigments in an 8 U.S. fl. oz. (237 ml) plastic spray bottle. (It seems artists use Phenol spray to protect their works against mold.) Each 8 fl. oz. bottle of dilute Phenol currently costs $8.45 USD (ouch!) But unless you are producing ink, one bottle should last you for years (one 8 oz. bottle of dilute Phenol should be able to treat approximately 2.5 gallons or 9.5 liters of ink). Here's a link:

 

http://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol.html

 

Note, if you live outside the U.S.A., trans-shipping the 8 oz. spray bottle of (totally harmless) dilute Phenol solution will likely require a U.S. Hazardous Material Declaration form and matching stickers affixed to the packaging. This will of-course dramatically increase your shipping and import costs, increase delays, and may result in you not being able to take possession of the shipment at all in the end! However if you are lucky, the International Forwarder won't notice what's being shipped, and you'll have no trouble at all. (That wasn't the case for me - I currently live in Indonesia.)

 

Adding Phenol to Ink:

 

A simple way to add the 4% Phenol solution to ink is use a pipette or eye-dropper and add small amounts drop-by-drop frequently agitating the ink to mix in the Phenol solution well. As you add dilute Phenol, smell the ink and compare it with the odor from a bottle of Pilot/Namiki Blue. Keep in-mind, surprisingly little Phenol needs to be added. Also keep in-mind that (obviously) adding too much Phenol is a one-way trip, no going back!

 

Some time ago when experimenting with adding dilute Phenol to a 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black, I took some notes:

 

Add 2.5% by total volume ink 4% by volume pre-mixed Phenol in aqueous solution. Obviously, this is better explaned by an example:

 

Volume of ink: 350 ml (large bottle of Pilot Blue-Black).

Volume of 4% Phenol solution to add: [2.5% / 100] * 350 ml = 8.75 ml

 

A simpler way to put this: Add 1-part 4% Phenol solution to 40-parts ink. By example:

 

Volume of ink: 350 ml (large bottle of Pilot Blue-Black).

Volume of 4% Phenol solution to add: 350 ml / 40 = 8.75 ml

 

Note: From the above examples, the result will be 358.75 ml total of ink plus dilute Phenol. Therefore, if your ink bottle is totally full, remove 8.75 ml of ink before adding the dilute Phenol - otherwise simply ignore the difference.

 

This amount of dilute Phenol to add is a starting point, you may need to add more. If you are sensitive to the odor of Phenol, start out adding less.

 

Important: Rather than risk the entire 350 ml bottle of ink by adding dilute Phenol, decant a smaller amount of ink into a smaller bottle and add Phenol to that. For example, for a 50 ml bottle of ink add 50 ml / 40 = 1.25 ml Phenol solution. Note: 1.25 ml is about as much as one standard international ink cartridge holds - a small amount to add indeed!

 

Note: You add Phenol to your ink per these instructions at your own risk. I take no responsibility for the results.

 

If you would like to read (a lot) more on the topic of Biostatic/Biocide agents and ink, here's a thread for you:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/171278-biocide-shootout-tests/

 

Have Fun David in Jakarta

Edited January 14, 2017 by Drone

[DavidCampen]

I guess that I will just learn to adapt to a world without carbolic acid in my fountain pen ink. I do like this Pilot Blue Black ink in the 350 ml bottle and it doesn't seem to need any additional biocide. I do modify the Pilot BB with the addition of a few hundred ppm of a surfactant to improve the flow in my (Parker 75) pens. This gives an ink that writes very well in a Rhodia notebook and is very water resistant.

[grayautumnday]

On 9/30/2014 at 5:54 PM, Drone said:

BTW, Here's a picture and link scraped from the Pilot Web site showing these big 350ml ink bottles. Makes me want to uncap one and take a swig:

 

http://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/ink-350/index.html

 

Are these Pilot *Namiki* ink, though? The Namiki ink bottles, no matter what language is on the label, uses a bulbous bottle shape and different font. The Pilot "Ink" bottles all use the font above and the normal size bottles are a sort of pyramidal-esque rectangular shape. 
 

I've been trying to find out what are the differences between the Pilot "Ink" and Pilot "Namiki Ink."

 

I'd also be interested to find out how the general properties of all the Pilot ink-lines: "Ink," "Namiki Ink," Iroshizuku, and (mixable) Parallel ink - how they tend to be different from each other.

[grayautumnday]

On 1/14/2017 at 12:33 AM, Drone said:

 

@DavidCampen,

 

You are correct about Pilot Blue-Black; while it is very much like Pilot/Namiki Blue in other respects, it does not have the stronger smell of Phenol (Carbolic Acid) that Pilot/Namiki Blue has. In my experience, this holds for all size bottles of Pilot Blue-Black, including the large 350ml bottles (which I own).

 

To help protect the ink and return the vintage odor of Phenol to Pilot Blue-Black, I add a small amount (around 2.5% by volume) of 4% aqueous Phenol solution to my 350ml bottles of Pilot Blue-Black. Phenol not only smells like vintage ink, it acts as a Biostatic agent to protect the ink against fungal and/or bacterial infection (a.k.a. SITB).

 

For a general consumer, Phenol is difficult to obtain in the U.S. This is because out-of-control Big Government has declared that Phenol is a "dangerous" thing - which is complete nonsense - a ruling based more in fear of Lawyers rather than actual Science.

 

Yes, Phenol can harm or kill you if fairly small amounts of the pure substance are consumed. But as a general consumer you will never encounter concentrated amounts of Phenol in the first place! I recall Phenol once being added to mouth wash and sore throat sprays. Not any more it seems.

 

The 4% Phenol solution I use comes from a California-based art-supply company called Natural Pigments in an 8 U.S. fl. oz. (237 ml) plastic spray bottle. (It seems artists use Phenol spray to protect their works against mold.) Each 8 fl. oz. bottle of dilute Phenol currently costs $8.45 USD (ouch!) But unless you are producing ink, one bottle should last you for years (one 8 oz. bottle of dilute Phenol should be able to treat approximately 2.5 gallons or 9.5 liters of ink). Here's a link:

 

http://www.naturalpigments.com/phenol.html

 

Note, if you live outside the U.S.A., trans-shipping the 8 oz. spray bottle of (totally harmless) dilute Phenol solution will likely require a U.S. Hazardous Material Declaration form and matching stickers affixed to the packaging. This will of-course dramatically increase your shipping and import costs, increase delays, and may result in you not being able to take possession of the shipment at all in the end! However if you are lucky, the International Forwarder won't notice what's being shipped, and you'll have no trouble at all. (That wasn't the case for me - I currently live in Indonesia.)

 

Adding Phenol to Ink:

 

A simple way to add the 4% Phenol solution to ink is use a pipette or eye-dropper and add small amounts drop-by-drop frequently agitating the ink to mix in the Phenol solution well. As you add dilute Phenol, smell the ink and compare it with the odor from a bottle of Pilot/Namiki Blue. Keep in-mind, surprisingly little Phenol needs to be added. Also keep in-mind that (obviously) adding too much Phenol is a one-way trip, no going back!

 

Some time ago when experimenting with adding dilute Phenol to a 350ml bottle of Pilot Blue-Black, I took some notes:

 

Add 2.5% by total volume ink 4% by volume pre-mixed Phenol in aqueous solution. Obviously, this is better explaned by an example:

 

Volume of ink: 350 ml (large bottle of Pilot Blue-Black).

Volume of 4% Phenol solution to add: [2.5% / 100] * 350 ml = 8.75 ml

 

A simpler way to put this: Add 1-part 4% Phenol solution to 40-parts ink. By example:

 

Volume of ink: 350 ml (large bottle of Pilot Blue-Black).

Volume of 4% Phenol solution to add: 350 ml / 40 = 8.75 ml

 

Note: From the above examples, the result will be 358.75 ml total of ink plus dilute Phenol. Therefore, if your ink bottle is totally full, remove 8.75 ml of ink before adding the dilute Phenol - otherwise simply ignore the difference.

 

This amount of dilute Phenol to add is a starting point, you may need to add more. If you are sensitive to the odor of Phenol, start out adding less.

 

Important: Rather than risk the entire 350 ml bottle of ink by adding dilute Phenol, decant a smaller amount of ink into a smaller bottle and add Phenol to that. For example, for a 50 ml bottle of ink add 50 ml / 40 = 1.25 ml Phenol solution. Note: 1.25 ml is about as much as one standard international ink cartridge holds - a small amount to add indeed!

 

Note: You add Phenol to your ink per these instructions at your own risk. I take no responsibility for the results.

 

If you would like to read (a lot) more on the topic of Biostatic/Biocide agents and ink, here's a thread for you:

 

https://www.fountainpennetwork.com/forum/index.php/topic/171278-biocide-shootout-tests/

 

Have Fun David in Jakarta

In The USA, it's actually quite easy to get a number of phenol biocides (there's actually a wide range of phenols used as biocidal preservatives. I buy mine from lotioncrafter.com - which also carries a vast array of phenol- and non-phenol based preservatives.

 

 Any effective broad-spectrum (effective against gram-positive/gram-negative bacteria and fungi) will be, by its definition, hazardous to living tissues of all sorts - it kills bacteria and fungi, and can kill other living things quite easily if hazardous material handling procedures specific to each --carefully reading SDS documents is *essential*, and keeping a SDS binder out where emergency/fire response personnel will see it immediately on entry is EXTREMELY important if you keep hazardous (chemical burn/corrosive, aerosolizing, explosive/combustive/highly reactive - such as with exposure to sunlight/air/other evaporating chemicals in the same space, carcinogenic/mutagenic, etc) chemicals on your property. (Storing such chemicals may also invalidate injury coverage of renter or homeowner insurance policies as well - be sure to purchase coverage riders!)

 

Biocides are not chemical mixtures to be used without carefully researching what's needed to use and store it safely.

 

 Your future self, your roommates, your visitors, your pets, your neighbors, and your future healthcare providers will all be VERY grateful that you did!

[mke]

5 hours ago, grayautumnday said:

Are these Pilot *Namiki* ink, though?

I never seen a Namiki ink in Japan (I am no expert, however), so I guess, just the name is different.

And a number of Pilot pens are sold as Namiki pens in the US. Just a name game.

[grayautumnday]

11 hours ago, mke said:

I never seen a Namiki ink in Japan (I am no expert, however), so I guess, just the name is different.

And a number of Pilot pens are sold as Namiki pens in the US. Just a name game.

Namiki is a sub-brand of Pilot. Many of the eBay fountain pen & ink sellers located in Japan carry both the "ink" and "namiki ink". Here's one example.

[mke]

2 hours ago, grayautumnday said:

Many of the eBay fountain pen & ink sellers located in Japan carry both the "ink" and "namiki ink"

Namiki is historically the name under which Pilot sells its bottled inks and many pens in the US. 

 

There is no Pilot ink officially available from Pilot US:

https://pilot.widen.net/s/2j7g8jd2bf/pilot-fine-writing-catalog_website page 73

 

And there is no Namiki ink available in Japan from Pilot：

https://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/

https://www.pilot.co.jp/products/pen/fountain/ink/ink_70/

 

The Ebay sellers sell what they can obtain.

 

You can assume that Pilot doesn't make different inks for different countries - without need.

Otherwise, the most obvious advice from me is that you ask Pilot US or Pilot Japan.