Overpriced

[Koyote]

So, Koyote, I used a poor choice of words ("exploitative")... who has never done this? You?

 

 

A piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce is a piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce. I would be most interested to hear your interpretation of that particular statement.

 

Oh, and...

 

 

Always nice to be judged by strangers.

 

You should not expect a manufacturer to only charge $10 for a piece of plastic that cost $10 to produce. And you should accept that marketing and service (e.g., for Montblanc) are actually legitimate business expenses to drive up the price. (Though you don't have to pay it.)

 

I only judged your arguments, and termed your response at 13:40 "exasperated" because that seemed to be the message conveyed. ("I don't know why I have to keep coming back and clarifying this very simple concept...I don't really see how this could be any clearer.")

[Cryptos]

 

You should not expect a manufacturer to only charge $10 for a piece of plastic that cost $10 to produce. And you should accept that marketing and service (e.g., for Montblanc) are actually legitimate business expenses to drive up the price. (Though you don't have to pay it.)

 

I get that, really I do. My point though is that slapping a $1000 price tag on a $10 piece of plastic seems somewhat excessive, and therefore I judge it overpriced. I am simplifying and exaggerating for sake of clarity. I understand about the other production and service factors involved. It's just that in my opinion, even taking these factors into consideration, I still think that many MB models are overpriced.

 

It should also be noted that I do not think this of all MB products (sorry, MB is just too easy a target). I occasionally look around for a used 221 or a 225 because I think they represent reasonable value. So I am not broadly brand bashing.

Edited September 22, 2014 by Cryptos

[Freddy]

Captivatin' read.

 

Thanks.

Fred

now pay particular attention to this first clause because it's most important.

it says the...hmm.."the party to the first part shall be known in this contract

as the party of the first part."

How do you like that ?

That's pretty neat....eh?

~ Otis B. Driftwood ~

Edited September 22, 2014 by Freddy

[Christi0469]

Cryptos- I get that these pens are overpriced in your opinion, but that does not make them overpriced in fact.

[Cryptos]

It was perfectly clear that my part in this thread was only an expression of my opinion.

[aawhite]

 

I tend to disagree, in part at least. If a pen cost $100 to produce (including everything), the question for me is what do I consider a fair mark-up on this cost. If the pen could be sold at an obscene (IMO) profit for, say, $500, but is instead sold for $1000 then I have to conclude that it is grossly overpriced with respect to outlay cost.

. . . .

 

I understand where you are coming from, but the mark-up of anything is up to the manufacturer and seller. It does not make it overpriced, just makes it expensive for some people.

 

If we go with your statement then many pens are overpriced even if they are affordable. A $20.00 pen might have cost $5.00 to produce. The mark-up is +300%. Is this overpriced? It would probably not cross the minds of those who can readily part with $20.00. But, say it costs $100 to produce and sold at $400 (same +300% mark-up), is this now overpriced? I may be wrong, but we may tend to only examine the "mark-up" on expensive or high-end items.

 

You see, my friend, there is a distinction between expensive and overpriced. In most cases, if something is inexpensive, people tend not think of the possible excessive mark-up.

 

Instead of overpricing, it is perhaps better to think in terms of "value for (my) money". Have a nice day.

Edited September 23, 2014 by aawhite

[Algester]

on this mark I would say is the Pilot Iroshizuku Overpriced... in a way yes... but costs 15USD in Japan where CdA inks costs like 30USD in Japan... so do we have to factor in the distribution costs here? maybe and how much is an Iroshizuku overseas say 30USD... thats twice the mark up really and is already comparable to CdA's new inks

Edited September 23, 2014 by Algester

[ethernautrix]

FWIW, I personally find a current-production MB 149 over-priced - but that "overpriced" is only in the context of the Montblanc 149 AND me. I would never think of dream of ascribing a universal "overpriced" tag.

...

I seem to be seeing a lot of that on FPN these days - "oh, they are fools for spending so much on a pen" - where "so much" is an arbitrary number that the particular poster seems to have a problem with.

 

And talking about FPN's favorite Nakaya - how come paying a premium for MB's brand is bad, but paying a premium for the artistic/cultural trappings of Nakaya isnt? Oh wait, they spin a great story about how the pen is made out of urushi and handcrafted by virgins on the foothills of Mt Fuji - so suddenly, paying for an inefficient manufacturing process is ok? Outsource it to China - I am sure someone there can handcraft it just as well for a lot cheaper. Heck, Platinum can make an amazing urushi Izumo for $400 and Nakaya cannot go under $550? Or for that matter, Platinum can sell the *exact* same Briarwood pen for a lot less than Nakaya? How does that work?

 

I agree with your opinion about branding and such being important to some customers.

 

Just a point of information: I don't know if the craftsmen who make the Nakayas are virgins or not, but they are older, even elderly, and I heard that once they are no longer around to make these pens, that's it. Done. (Don't know if it's true. It could be true NOW, but plans could change.)

 

Anyway, Nakaya is my favorite pen, and do I wish the price today were the same as when I bought my first Piccolo for $250? Yep. But I don't control that, so...

 

At least buying Nakayas has helped curtail my needless spending on other pens, even (for the foreseeable future) Nakayas. I have the pens I like, and I no longer crave more pens.

 

(Smiley face implied in reply.)

 

ETA: I also agree with the quoted portion of your comment, in case that wasn't clear - except for the Nakaya part, to which I have no strong opinion.

Edited September 23, 2014 by ethernautrix

[ethernautrix]

 

I dont spend any time wondering about people who buy pens/cars/clothes/whatever that fall in a price category (higher or lower) than what I am interested in - that's kinda the point of being "not interested". I focus on what I'm interested in. The amount of time people spend justifying why they wouldnt buy Brand X certainly indicates a level of interest higher than they claim to have.

Exactly. If I'm not interested in something, I expend no energy in trying to convince others not to be interested in it. Just wouldn't occur to me. I'm not a proselytizer - despite sharing my high opinion of my favorite brand(s) (to me, I am merely sharing my enthusiasm, but I don't expect everyone to experience the same reaction); and I'm certainly not a negative proselytizer (a conselytizer?).

[Christi0469]

If you make a pen to sell why would you mark it up 30% if you can still sell it in sufficient numbers at 300% markup. At 30% you have to make and sell a lot of pens, where at 300% you can make and sell fewer pens yet make more profit. The company making this theoretical pen would not be making a sound business decision at the lower markup.

 

I personally would not buy the pen at 300% markup, but the manufacturer isn't targeting the pen to my demographic. Because this is a luxury good the high price isn't harming anyone, and the people who purchase these pens have the financial wherewithal to do so and typically are accustomed to the price inflation of other luxury goods.

[de_pen_dent]

Just a point of information: I don't know if the craftsmen who make the Nakayas are virgins or not, but they are older, even elderly, and I heard that once they are no longer around to make these pens, that's it. Done. (Don't know if it's true. It could be true NOW, but plans could change.)

 

Anyway, Nakaya is my favorite pen, and do I wish the price today were the same as when I bought my first Piccolo for $250? Yep. But I don't control that, so...

 

At least buying Nakayas has helped curtail my needless spending on other pens, even (for the foreseeable future) Nakayas. I have the pens I like, and I no longer crave more pens.

 

Well then you are following the way of Musashi and Nakaya is totally worth it - after all, you cannot put a price on moksha (except that now you can)!

 

On a more serious note: I should clarify - I wasnt slagging on Nakaya. I like them and I think they are very nice pens. I was kinda of trying to show the absurdity of the hyperbole against MB by using the same logic train in a different setting.

 

And on a different note/detour about Nakaya - I wonder what's the exact relationship between Nakaya and Platinum. I know they are supposed to be different companies, but Nakaya nibs do look a *lot* like Platinum nibs, except with a different imprint, and atleast one Nakaya pen, the Briarwood, is the same as the Platinum Briarwood. This year has been spent chasing MB WEs - next year, I plan to get a few of the Nakayas I've been eyeing for a while. Esp after what you just said. Virgins are easier to replace than elderly craftsmen.

[maverink]

MB has a market skimming strategy they would rather sell few pens at high prices to keep it a exclusive elite club

[ethernautrix]

On a more serious note: I should clarify - I wasnt slagging on Nakaya.

Yes, I understood that you were using an analogy.

 

And on a different note/detour about Nakaya - I wonder what's the exact relationship between Nakaya and Platinum. I know they are supposed to be different companies, but Nakaya nibs do look a *lot* like Platinum nibs, except with a different imprint, and atleast one Nakaya pen, the Briarwood, is the same as the Platinum Briarwood.

Platinum is Nakaya's parent company, and the craftsmen who make Nakayas are retired from Platinum. The nibs are from the same source, different imprint.

 

This year has been spent chasing MB WEs - next year, I plan to get a few of the Nakayas I've been eyeing for a while. Esp after what you just said. Virgins are easier to replace than elderly craftsmen.

Hehe! That is so.

 

I've been so satisfied with my Nakayas (eight of them, with no plans for more) that I've even started to consider selling my Hemingway (personalized, no box), cos I just don't use it. But it's a very difficult thought to entertain, cos I have had it for a little more than 20 years. I still love the look of it, but I haven't used it in about a year, and the last few times I inked it, it hasn't lasted more than a couple of days in rotation. Cos Nakaya. I've sold several pens I thought I would always keep - no regrets. Guess I'm more the less-is-more type. -- Although... the Mb 1912 tempts me. I start writing with my Nakayas (and reminding myself that the 1912 is not c/c - hahaha) until the temptation passes.

[de_pen_dent]

Can I call dibs on the Hemingway, if you are selling it next year? My 1912 arrives next week - am looking forward to it. It is a damn slick piece of design!

 

As my tastes and preferences have crystallised, I too have pretensions of trying to trim my collection - have been trying to do so for the past couple of months (people, buy my pens on Classifieds!) but for some inexplicable reason, I always have more pens at the end of each month than I started with. Not quite sure how that is happening

[tomkeb]

Some pens are overpriced in Europe compared to the US: for example Pilot Capless/VP costs $140 on JetPens/Goulet, yet european Cult Pens offer it for £139 = $228… in my country it is sold for $252. Or the Metropolitan: $15 in the US, $23–$37 in Europe. In addition, the pens are offered here only with a limited number of nib sizes (usually just <M>). I don't know how is this possible… mabye Pilot don't want to make any business here.

[Christi0469]

Some pens are overpriced in Europe compared to the US: for example Pilot Capless/VP costs $140 on JetPens/Goulet, yet european Cult Pens offer it for £139 = $228… in my country it is sold for $252. Or the Metropolitan: $15 in the US, $23–$37 in Europe. In addition, the pens are offered here only with a limited number of nib sizes (usually just <M>). I don't know how is this possible… mabye Pilot don't want to make any business here.

That is a good point and I have heard that before. It gets even more disheartening when you add in shipping and customs fees if you buy from oversees. The Metropolitans come with limited nibs sizes here as well, fine or medium, with fine being a recent addition.

[Duke of Buckingham]

It's overpriced until I can afford it.

 

That matter of subjectivity aside, all fountain pens are about brand and image, considering ballpoint pens are so much cheaper and less hassle (although less enjoyable) to operate.

[ethernautrix]

Can I call dibs on the Hemingway, if you are selling it next year? My 1912 arrives next week - am looking forward to it. It is a damn slick piece of design!

 

As my tastes and preferences have crystallised, I too have pretensions of trying to trim my collection - have been trying to do so for the past couple of months (people, buy my pens on Classifieds!) but for some inexplicable reason, I always have more pens at the end of each month than I started with. Not quite sure how that is happening

 

 

Hahaha, I will keep you in mind should I decide to sell the Hemingway. Struggling with attachment.

 

Yes, as soon as I have winnowed out pens, somehow I acquire a pen or two, usually from friends. I consider these gifts Memento pens, and they live in a separate case. I might use them, of course, but their status is primarily associated with lovely people.

[de_pen_dent]

Yes, as soon as I have winnowed out pens, somehow I acquire a pen or two, usually from friends. I consider these gifts Memento pens, and they live in a separate case. I might use them, of course, but their status is primarily associated with lovely people.

 

Interesting! Reducing the size of one's collection by refusing to count some pens in it. That's a brilliant idea- suddenly, my collection seems to have come down substantially. #Win

[picautomaton]

So, Koyote, I used a poor choice of words ("exploitative")... who has never done this? You?

 

 

A piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce is a piece of plastic that costs $10 to produce. Sticking a logo on it does not change this.

Would the $10 that you mention be a thumb suck?