Overpriced

[jar]

It is interesting to see how different people see the term "overpriced".

 

Personally I find almost all the Chinese pens grossly overpriced even a 12 for a dollar. The same hold true for TWSBIs and Noodler's and most Indian pens I've checked out while a pen like the Sheaffer/Classic Pens CP4 Washington/Richmond or Yard-o-Led Viceroy Grand Victorian under priced and great value for the dollar..

[FarmBoy]

It is interesting to see how different people see the term "overpriced".

 

Personally I find almost all the Chinese pens grossly overpriced even a 12 for a dollar. The same hold true for TWSBIs and Noodler's and most Indian pens I've checked out while a pen like the Sheaffer/Classic Pens CP4 Washington/Richmond or Yard-o-Led Viceroy Grand Victorian under priced and great value for the dollar..

42s pen isn't Chinese in origin.

[jar]

42s pen isn't Chinese in origin.

 

Correct. I know.

[Brian K]

It is interesting to see how different people see the term "overpriced".

 

Personally I find almost all the Chinese pens grossly overpriced even a 12 for a dollar. The same hold true for TWSBIs and Noodler's and most Indian pens I've checked out while a pen like the Sheaffer/Classic Pens CP4 Washington/Richmond or Yard-o-Led Viceroy Grand Victorian under priced and great value for the dollar..

It is interesting to see how different people see the term "overpriced".

 

Personally I find almost all the Chinese pens grossly overpriced even a 12 for a dollar. The same hold true for TWSBIs and Noodler's and most Indian pens I've checked out while a pen like the Sheaffer/Classic Pens CP4 Washington/Richmond or Yard-o-Led Viceroy Grand Victorian under priced and great value for the dollar..

I tend to agree on the Chinese pens. I admit to only trying a few but I have not been happy with the few I have tried. They seem to be too heavy for their size and QC is hit or miss. The frequently lauded Jinhao 159 intrigued me as I own a 149, and since it could be had cheaply, I figured a comparison would be interesting. I never could warm up to it, it just didn't perform reliably. When I tried swapping the nib out to put in a Goulet 1.1mm stub nib to see if that would make it a decent writer the entire section came apart despite a gentle attempt to pull the nib and feed as others have done. I'm glad I only paid 10 bucks for it - which was about 15 bucks too much!

 

I must part company with you on the TWSBI, however. I've never been moved to buy the standard models like the 580 or the Vac 700 but I did buy one of the last Micarta 2s available. Since the day I first filled it from a sample vial of Iro Yama-guri a few months ago it has been with me virtually every day. With either the M nib that came with it or the aforementioned Goulet stub it has been an excellent pen. It puts down a lovely wet line and has not failed me yet. With the material it is made of I am sure it will outlast me. Someday I may spring for a gold #6 nib for it but the way it writes now that would be an exercise in gilding the lily. This pen is worth every penny I spent on it - not something I have always been able to say. Your mileage, as they say, may vary.

 

Regards,

 

Brian

[HandLikeAFist]

One of the problems is the vulgar explosion of luxury goods. When I bought my MB 149, 45 years ago, it was expensive, but not shockingly so. It appealed to a certain kind of person. Sort of like Hermes bags, then.

 

But more recently, all these niche makers of luxury goods have expanded exponentially, cheapening their exclusivity, while keeping the prices sky-high. And people not used to this world are shocked by the cost: these pens are overpriced!

 

My MB was stolen a few years ago. Now I have a nice Kaweco Sport in black plastic, with there best nib I've ever had. My grail pen, sitting in my desk drawer, is a $400 Montegrappa sterling silver Reminiscence, which was not a penny overpriced. For me.

[georges zaslavsky]

It is like in watches fora, some people like some brands and dislike others, same with pens

[amk]

HandLikeAFirst makes a good point. If I were going to (were able to) spend a huge amount on a pen, and wanted *real* exclusivity, it would be an Oldwin limited edition or a Hakase. Not an MB.

[oregano]

Thanks, ethernautrix, for trying to get this thread back on track.Kenshiro's definition below is one of the first helpful ones I've seen here. It also has the benefit of eliminating the variable of whether we can afford it or not. We've established the difference between 'overpriced' and 'expensive' and that there is a difference between them, but in practical terms how do you know if something is overpriced in an objective way? Granted, as red is burning says, a pen isn't just the cost of its materials. It would be great to know just what goes into the pricing of pens on a ground level. Since I don't know how much it cost to make xyz pen and what the breakdown is, I usually compare the prices of that pen to a pen of a similar price range or similar perceived quality. For example, the modern pens I like design wise are usually made out of resin. Regardless of the price of a gold nib, it does seem overpriced to pay $300 or more for resin. I still do because I put a high premium on aesthetics. But if I could get it at a lower price, it would not affect what I imagine to be the true value of the pen (the cost of putting it together, design, nib, and distribution). Therefore I would call that 'overpriced', not just expensive. One case in point is Conway Stewart. Is it worth paying 1.5x the price of other pens for a resin pen? People have said that it is, solely for the quality of the craftsmanship and gold nib. I bring up Conway Stewart not to bash them but, on the contrary, because I genuinely love their designs, and have struggled with this question, since I find them to be overpriced. And I can still call them 'overpriced' even if I judge it to be worth it when I try their pens.

Just go back to microeconomics. A product has a certain utility to each consumer, defined by that consumer's utility function. Money also has utility insofar as you can exchange it for things that have utility. As such it serves as a useful proxy for quantifying utility. Expensive pens are those with a high absolute price where the utility/price ratio >= 1, regardless of whether the consumer can afford it. This can be (but is not necessarily) independent of other more urgent things in life with higher marginal utility (e.g. food); grail pens are known to be like this; i.e. 'I want it even though I'll have to eat nothing but instant ramen for six months.' Overpriced pens are those with a high absolute price where the utility/price ratio < 1, again regardless of whether the consumer can afford it. This is always going to be subject to the individual consumer's utility function - what they value in a pen or an object in general, whether they value design, function, materials, engineering, etc.

<blockquote class='ipsBlockquote' data-author="redisburning" data-cid="3152661" data-time="1413643448">redisburning, on 18 Oct 2014 - 09:44, said:redisburning, on 18 Oct 2014 - 09:44, said:redisburning, on 18 Oct 2014 - 09:44, said:<p>Well Sal from Spyderco basically shut the case on the price of the Sebenza when he said it would cost about the same amount of money if you wanted a knife that good from Spyderco. The Sage 2 is nice but it's not a sebenza. I've owned 2 large sebenza 21s and I could never get to like the handle shape. it took me a long time to find a knife that was put together as well that wasn't a full blown custom, and Im very happy with the Strider SJ75. Which costs about the same as a sebenza. I just want to point out that producing things is a LOT more expensive than just the cost of materials unless we are talking unbelievable output. Someone has to put the damn thing together, and pens have small, sometimes fragile parts. I'm not really suggesting the new price of a 149 has the same margin as a Japanese cigar style pen but at the same time I highly suspect their margin is not nearly as greater as some people seem to think. Please understand that EVERY small company is going to need to have a high margin on the product. You don't keep your doors open if you are a Edited November 12, 2014 by paloma32

[Dimitri]

Mont Blanc's profits are very slim, they are the worst performing brand in their parent companies portfolio, posting single percentage point profits. It is a high cost to make in Western European countries, and distribute them as they do in Boutiques world wide.

 

While the luxury good conglomerate as a whole only made ~20% profit all together.

 

I don't think they can really be all that over priced. Unlike the profit margins at Apple etc.

 

Dimitri

[Medsen Fey]

..., but in practical terms how do you know if something is overpriced in an objective way?

I believe the only ones who can truly know if a pen is overpriced are the manufacturers. If they sell out their production without having to make any discounts then the pen is underpriced. If they aren't able to sell them all, they are overpriced. There is no "perfect price"

[de_pen_dent]

in practical terms how do you know if something is overpriced in an objective way?

 

I've said this before and i'l say this again - people dont buy expensive pens for objective reasons. Functionally, a $1 BIC is as effective at getting the job done, so *objectively* speaking, fountain pens pretty much are overpriced: they cost more, they are finicky to use & they are less robust.

 

Most of us here who use fountain pens do so b/c we like the tactile act of writing, etc. etc. - ie, aspects other than simple, objective performance. Most of us who buy expensive pens do so b/c the aesthetics of the pen appeal to us. So how do you value that? Do you price a painting based on the cost of canvas plus the paint?

 

<General rant, not directed specifically at you, paloma32, begins now>

 

For the love of god, please let's stop this inane handwringing over trying to define "overpriced" using some kind of standard metric that would apply universally. Have we completely lost all sense of perspective and common sense here, and do we REALLY think that there is one universal definition of what makes a product 'overpriced'?

 

Just enjoy the damned hobby however you want, and be done with it.

[PAKMAN]

Thanks to everyone for their valuable input on what constitutes "overpriced" in the world of fountain pens and beyond. This dead horse has been sufficiently beaten so closing this thread.