Overpriced

[prf5]

...provided you have a choice between buying/not buying... Perhaps we need to define what is meant by 'choice' here.

 

 

What the poor guy won't accept is that people willingly overpay, whether it's for water at a convenience store or fountain pens. He doggedly insists that, by definition, a voluntary purchase is optimal and therefore you are not overpaying. He is in an abstract world where nobody lives. What makes the thread interesting is why people overpay for pens, when they do. A couple of people here have answered: They overpay because they are buying to flaunt and to impress their friends.

[FarmBoy]

I already told you I'm not ambidextrous...

Did you know most of your pens are German?

[mrchan]

They need your hole over at Conway Stewart...

Win!

 

 

What the poor guy won't accept is that people willingly overpay, whether it's for water at a convenience store or fountain pens. He doggedly insists that, by definition, a voluntary purchase is optimal and therefore you are not overpaying. He is in an abstract world where nobody lives. What makes the thread interesting is why people overpay for pens, when they do. A couple of people here have answered: They overpay because they are buying to flaunt and to impress their friends.

If the sole purpose of purchase is to flaunt and impress friends then perhaps its not overpaying?

Edited October 19, 2014 by mrchan

[prf5]

If the sole purpose of purchase is to flaunt and impress friends then perhaps its not overpaying?

 

 

For three guys on this thread, what drives their claims about the pens they own (or want us to believe they own) is the hope that the other two will say, I like you, you're just like me. They are overpaying for friendship and approval, just as others overpay for status and credibility. Overpaying can be rational; it usually is. Overpaying for convenience or curiosity is rational. it would also be rational if they are lying about the pens they say they own.

[FriendAmos]

 

I said: "I say that when you buy a fountain pen and make your purchase known to others, you are putting your values forward for scrutiny."

lsmith42 said: "Opinions are like assholes... Everyone's got one..." Then, we see this tag: "MB Hemingway M; Dumas M FP/BP/MP set; Fitzgerald M FP/BP/MP set; Jules Verne BB; Leonard Bernstein F; Shaw B; yellow gold/pearl Bohème Pirouette Lilas (custom MB-fitted EF); gold 744-N flexy OBB; 236 flexy OBB; gold/citrine Le Grand F; silver pinstripe Le Grand B; 146 M; 162 RB."

This is what's called making your purchase known to others. You aren't just buying or using a fountain pen, you are putting up your values for scrutiny. When you do that, you open yourself to criticism. Some of it will be fair, some of it won't. Some of the criticism will come from people who have similar pens or similar interests. But when you have asked to have your values scrutinized, don't snivel about it. It's a bit like laying down in the middle of the street and complaining because someone runs you over.

 

 

Point.

[mrchan]

 

For three guys on this thread, what drives their claims about the pens they own (or want us to believe they own) is the hope that the other two will say, I like you, you're just like me. They are overpaying for friendship and approval, just as others overpay for status and credibility. Overpaying can be rational; it usually is. Overpaying for convenience or curiosity is rational. it would also be rational if they are lying about the pens they say they own.

What I meant was that if a person is buying it solely for status, of course the higher the price, the higher the "perceived" status. In that case, I think the sky's the limit for price..Don't think its considered overpaying if that is the sole intention.

[Cryptos]

Overpaying as a form of oneupmanship.

[kazoolaw]

Assuming you dont want to start getting pedantic and splitting semantic hairs about the difference between usefulness and utility...

 

As that famous Conklin user said "... the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."

 

gary

[FarmBoy]

As that famous Conklin user said "... the difference between lightning and a lightning bug."

 

gary

I hate to break it to you...Conkllin is gone too.

[lsmith42]

I hate to break it to you...Conkllin is gone too.

They must've needed holes too...

[mrchan]

They must've needed holes too...

fkin LOL!

[kazoolaw]

I hate to break it to you...Conkllin is gone too.

No, I saw an ad for new Conklins. Another maker with an unbroken history. Even crescent fillers.

 

gary

[FarmBoy]

No, I saw an ad for new Conklins. Another maker with an unbroken history. Even crescent fillers.

 

gary

Ironic isn't it.

[georges zaslavsky]

No, I saw an ad for new Conklins. Another maker with an unbroken history. Even crescent fillers.

 

gary

Some of the modern reeditions from Conklin like the Nozac and the word Gauge have been manufactured by Stipula

[lsmith42]

Ironic isn't it.

My oldest son once defined irony as my ex-wife becoming a wedding coordinator.

[Blade Runner]

Overpaying as a form of oneupmanship.

Anti-snobbery hubris is a form of oneupsmanship.

 

Overypaying however is not so dogmatically classified as such. For example,

 

-paying a lot for a special gift can be an act of self-sacrifice. A pensioned aunt who saved and scraped to buy a nephew an Mac laptop who is going away to university. She doesn't know too much about computers, and perhaps if she were more familiar with them, she could have saved some money in buying a less well known brand, but she knows Macs are well regarded and chose it to be safe.

 

-paying a lot for nice things can be a reward for years of hard work, spending weekends in the library instead of partying, spending years at graduate school at poverty wages and accruing debt. If the work pays off, why not take pleasure in the ability to buy some nice/expensive things? I see nothing wrong with that provided material success did not come by nefarious means. Of course there can be materially successful people who are mean bastards who "lord" things over others, but there are also wonderful, generous people who give more than most to charitable causes.

 

What are the mitigating factors of anti-snobbery hubris, the view that can only imagine that buying a luxury brand item can only be meant to put down others?

Edited October 20, 2014 by Blade Runner

[prf5]

Anti-snobbery hubris is a form of oneupsmanship.

 

Overypaying however is not so dogmatically classified as such. For example,

 

-paying a lot for a special gift can be an act of self-sacrifice. A pensioned aunt who saved and scraped to buy a nephew an Mac laptop who is going away to university. She doesn't know too much about computers, and perhaps if she were more familiar with them, she could have saved some money in buying a less well known brand, but she knows Macs are well regarded and chose it to be safe.

 

-paying a lot for nice things can be a reward for years of hard work, spending weekends in the library instead of partying, spending years at graduate school at poverty wages and accruing debt. If the work pays off, why not take pleasure in the ability to buy some nice/expensive things? I see nothing wrong with that provided material success did not come by nefarious means. Of course there can be materially successful people who are mean bastards who "lord" things over others, but there are also wonderful, generous people who give more than most to charitable causes.

 

What are the mitigating factors of anti-snobbery hubris, the view that can only imagine that buying a luxury brand item can only be meant to put down others?

 

Cryptos was speaking of one reason that people overpay -- to say, in effect, I am better than you or I'm a member of select group because I have a collection of XYZ pens. I have seen examples on this thread. To the other cases you mention: 1) I am not a Mac user, but I don't see the beneficent act of the aunt as overpaying. 2) Nice things generally cost more than things that are less nice, but nice things aren't necessarily overpriced.

 

3) "Mitigating factors of anti-snobbery hubris" is quite a mouthful, but if I get what you are saying, I agree with you. There are people who are jealous or envious of what others have. In a futile effort to put them down, they use "overpay" as a hammer. Envy may have been the motive for some of the remarks on this thread that are directed toward a particular brand or group of brands or toward the people who own them. In that case, overpaying has been, as you say, dogmatically classified. If you look at my comments, you haven't seen any of that.

 

Some of the talk about "reverse snobbery" or the like has also been dogmatic. It can be a way of dismissing the idea that some items are overpriced and that some people are willing to overpay, as do I for a variety of reasons including convenience, habit, loyalty, and because I've followed bad advice, because I have found something that meets my needs perfectly.

Edited October 20, 2014 by prf5

[Blade Runner]

 

Cryptos was speaking of one reason that people overpay

Actually he did not qualify his statement at all. So I gave examples of why that unqualified statement isn't necessarily correct.

 

Nice things generally cost more than things that are less nice, but nice things aren't necessarily overpriced.

I agree!

 

"Mitigating factors of anti-snobbery hubris" is quite a mouthful, but if I get what you are saying, I agree with you. There are people who are jealous or envious of what others have. In a futile effort to put them down, they use "overpay" as a hammer. Envy may have been the motive for some of the remarks on this thread that are directed toward a particular brand or group of brands or toward the people who own them. In that case, overpaying has been, as you say, dogmatically classified.

I agree!

 

Some people are willing to overpay, as do I for a variety of reasons including convenience, habit, loyalty, and because I've followed bad advice, because I have found something that meets my needs perfectly.

I agree! A variety of reasons, many legit. Not only to put down others.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Blade Runner

[prf5]

 

 

Cryptos was speaking of one reason that people overpay

Actually he did not qualify his statement at all.

 

Nice things generally cost more than things that are less nice, but nice things aren't necessarily overpriced.

I agree!

 

"Mitigating factors of anti-snobbery hubris" is quite a mouthful, but if I get what you are saying, I agree with you. There are people who are jealous or envious of what others have. In a futile effort to put them down, they use "overpay" as a hammer. Envy may have been the motive for some of the remarks on this thread that are directed toward a particular brand or group of brands or toward the people who own them. In that case, overpaying has been, as you say, dogmatically classified.

I agree!

 

Some people are willing to overpay, as do I for a variety of reasons including convenience, habit, loyalty, and because I've followed bad advice, because I have found something that meets my needs perfectly.

I agree! A variety of reasons, many legit. Not only to put down others.

 

 

I wonder if you agree with these points as well:

1) What Cryptos said is right if his statement is qualified: Sometimes, people overpay to say, in effect, that they are better than someone else or a member of select group because of their collection of XYZ pens.

2) There are examples of what Cryptos calls one-upmanship on this thread.

3) Some of the talk about 'reverse snobbery' or the like on this thread has been what you call dogmatic,

Edited October 20, 2014 by prf5

[Helen350]

Opps, I think I'm in the wrong place. I may want that $1,500 MB, or the $3000 Montegrappa, but my Social Security check tells me "No." This is a case of the "cans & can nots", the "have and have nots". In my short time as a FP enthusiast, I have discovered we purchase pens for many, many diverse reasons. For some, even if the pen is not "really" worth what they are asking, that is not the point. "I can, I will and I've earned it'". In the world we live, an extravagant pen says "I am" and represents our perceived "worth", just as much as a Gucci, Hermes or Prada bag. Though finances limit what I can do, I want the best pen for my budget ($50-$250/grail pen). The most expensive pen in my very limited collection cost me $125+. When I pull it out of my purse, someone will want to "look" at it. Usually they remark about it being a costly item, and wonder why would I spend so much money on just a "pen." This is where each of us has our reasons for our purchases, and sometimes the reasons go beyond loyalty, customer service, company history, habits, preference, etc, etc, etc. I often wonder do we really know our "deep emotional needs" and why we are willing to spend inordinate amounts of money on our beautiful, breathtaking, functional or eye catching FPs.

Edited October 20, 2014 by Helen350