Stubb And Italic Nibs, Scratchy?

[Dodobrains]

Hey all

 

I've really come to notice my 1.1 mm and 1.3 mm stubbs seem to be much more scratchy than my round tipped mediums and broads.

 

If i don't hold the nib to the paper the exact way throughout writing, it feels scratchy. I've worked on my nibs and smoothed them and alligned the tines so i'm pretty sure it's not a maintenance problem. Also coupled with the fact that some parts of the writing sample feel beautifully smooth but when my hand moves across/down the page and the angle of the nib changes, the pen writes annoyingly scratchy.

 

So far i've never had this kind of problem with my mediums and broads.

 

What do you guys think?

Do Stubbs and italics tend to be scratchier than the other conventinal nib types?

[bardiir]

Yes, if you angle the nib it will write on one side mainly and thus digging into the paper more. You will eventually start moving the paper instead of your hand so your writing position is consistent.

 

(Sharp) italics are scratchy regardless of the angle, they will probably cut the paper if angled wrongly or pressure is too high.

Edited September 4, 2014 by bardiir

[Gaslight]

(Sharp) italics have edges which can dig into the paper, that will feel scratchy. Generally you have to slow down a bit with those nibs.

 

Stubs have rounded edges and will be smooth like round nibs. My 1.5 TWSBI Vac700 nib is the smoothest nib I have, it's absolutely feedback free, even my Binder-nibs have a bit more tooth.

[kernando]

No.

I think you should hold the nibs "the exact way".

No, not in a meaningful way within context. Round nibs don't really have corners on the underside, so they don't have corners for you to roll into the paper.

 

What stubs are these? The modern connotation of stub is that it's rounded off at the corners.

[gwyneddd]

Hey all

 

I've really come to notice my 1.1 mm and 1.3 mm stubbs seem to be much more scratchy than my round tipped mediums and broads.

 

If i don't hold the nib to the paper the exact way throughout writing, it feels scratchy. I've worked on my nibs and smoothed them and alligned the tines so i'm pretty sure it's not a maintenance problem. Also coupled with the fact that some parts of the writing sample feel beautifully smooth but when my hand moves across/down the page and the angle of the nib changes, the pen writes annoyingly scratchy.

 

So far i've never had this kind of problem with my mediums and broads.

 

What do you guys think?

Do Stubbs and italics tend to be scratchier than the other conventinal nib types?

 

I have a Monteverde with a 1.1mm stub nib and it's one of the least scratchy nibs I have. The Noodler Ahab flex nib out of the box (I think it's a fine) is very scratchy to me. My ancient Montblanc mediums are smooth as silk. (14K gold.) The Monteverde is coated with some kind of black finish--I do not know if this contributes to its smoothness, but for the forty-some bucks I spent on that pen, it's quite acceptable.

[Dodobrains]

I have a monteverde 1.1, Lamy 1.3, and a TWSBI 580 1.1.

Only the Monteverde is consistently smooth. But even then, can feel scratchy as my hand moves in different positions of the paper.

 

The lamy is the most scratchiest, almost with every diagonal left downstroke.

I don't want to smooth it any more than i've done because I suspect it will get babies bottom.

 

My online german medium, never ever has felt scratchy, and i've done minimal work on the nib.

[Gaslight]

I have a monteverde 1.1, Lamy 1.3, and a TWSBI 580 1.1.

Only the Monteverde is consistently smooth. But even then, can feel scratchy as my hand moves in different positions of the paper.

 

The lamy is the most scratchiest, almost with every diagonal left downstroke.

I don't want to smooth it any more than i've done because I suspect it will get babies bottom.

 

My online german medium, never ever has felt scratchy, and i've done minimal work on the nib.

 

Lamy nibs are pretty sharp for factory nibs, which is why they give nice variation. After reading your first post again and now this post (where you mention problems especially on left downstrokes) I'm pretty sure you use the nib in the wrong way.

 

Stubs/italics must be hold in the proper orientation and it seems that you don't do that. So smoothing wouldn't do much (except you grind the thing down to a round nib...).

[Dodobrains]

 

Lamy nibs are pretty sharp for factory nibs, which is why they give nice variation. After reading your first post again and now this post (where you mention problems especially on left downstrokes) I'm pretty sure you use the nib in the wrong way.

 

Stubs/italics must be hold in the proper orientation and it seems that you don't do that. So smoothing wouldn't do much (except you grind the thing down to a round nib...).

That's what i suspected from the beginning, If i slowly set the nib exactly right, everything seems fine.

 

But it's kind of annoying having to pay attention to your nib position every time your hand moves to a different position of the paper.

 

I'm a student and i need to be able to pick a pen and write quickly, adding onto the fact that i write pretty quickly.

 

Perhaps flat tipped nibs arent for me?

[Gaslight]

That's what i suspected from the beginning, If i slowly set the nib exactly right, everything seems fine.

 

But it's kind of annoying having to pay attention to your nib position every time your hand moves to a different position of the paper.

 

I'm a student and i need to be able to pick a pen and write quickly, adding onto the fact that i write pretty quickly.

 

Perhaps flat tipped nibs arent for me?

 

For fast and easy writing without paying to much attention a round nib sure is easier.

 

but everything can be trained, of course and after a bit of practice muscle memory will kick in and writing with flat nibs becomes 2nd nature.

 

With smooth stub I write with the same speed as with round nibs. Not with the Lamy though, too sharp.

 

So, it's up to you if you want to practice this skill.

[KBeezie]

Lamy 1.9 = not super smooth, but not scratchy or rough or dragging. Pretty thin on the horizontal and THICK on the vertical

 

Goulet 1.5 = Very very smooth for me, and a comfortable thickness. It's horizontal is just a tiny bit thicker than the Lamy 1.9 nib

 

Nemosine 0.8 = I hated this nib, it was aligned, but it was not that smooth and it dragged like it was seriously unpolished. Ended up selling this off attached to a Jinhao X750.

 

Pilot Broad/Stub (on a 78G) = About the same thick width as the Nemosine 0.8, but nearly same horizontal (thinner) stroke as the Goulet 1.5. Was pretty smooth, but the flow of ink wasn't consistent unless it was iroshizuku ink for me. For some reason it behaved much like my black-coated monteverde fine, that is some ink seem to repel the surface and doesn't go down evenly or consistently, like writing with water on plastic depending on the ink.

 

 

That's what i suspected from the beginning, If i slowly set the nib exactly right, everything seems fine.

 

But it's kind of annoying having to pay attention to your nib position every time your hand moves to a different position of the paper.

 

I'm a student and i need to be able to pick a pen and write quickly, adding onto the fact that i write pretty quickly.

 

Perhaps flat tipped nibs arent for me?

 

If you think that's annoying with a stub, wait til you try a cursive italic or a straight crisp (calligrapher's) italic that'll dig right in if you're not keeping it straight. Stubs are much smoother around the corners (thus not as crisp) designed to be much easier for people to handle, if you twist/turn too much for most stubs then you may need to work on how you hold the pen and practice more, since that habit may cause problems in normal round nibs too after a degree of time.

[brunico]

But it's kind of annoying having to pay attention to your nib position every time your hand moves to a different position of the paper [...] i need to be able to pick a pen and write quickly

 

The pen hold that's necessary for an italic nib is the hold I was taught for any nib - or even a biro, for that matter - so I can write as quickly with an italic nib as with anything else.

 

If you're altering your grip as you move across the page, then you're not writing as quickly or efficiently as you could be, regardless of the type of nib. You might have to unlearn some old habits - particularly moving your fingers too much - but writing with italic nibs isn't the esoteric skill some people think it is, simply the most efficient, least strenuous way of pulling the blade of a chisel across a page without lifting the corners.

[rogerb]

A round point is just that ... it's rather like a teardrop shape, with no sharp edges, so at whatever angle it meets the paper it should feel smooth (as long as the tines are correctly aligned)

 

An Italic nib has a tip shaped like a matchbox, so, to feel smooth, needs to make contact with the bottom edge flat on the paper.

 

And a Stub is like a matchbox with the corners well rounded-off, so is quite a bit more forgiving of mis-alignment.

 

A Cursive Italic falls between Italic and Stub, giving a little more forgiveness than the former, and more line width variation than the latter.

 

With all that said, every nib-grinder has his/her own idea of how much a tip should be rounded to distinguish between Stub and a CI.

In general my CIs from Richard Binder have been a bit sharper than the many done for me by John Sorowka.

But John now knows how I write and how I like Stubs v CIs to be ... and I know what to ask for

 

If one has a chance, it is good to sit and watch the nib magic being performed, so that you can, at the later stages, have a chance to try it and say, maybe, "Just a bit 'rounder', please!" (for obvious reasons, the grinding has to be done from 'sharp' to 'rounded' ( you cannot put tipping material back on!)

 

[it's a bit like asking for a steak Medium-Rare (or a box of chocolates) ... unless you are very specific the first time, 'you never know what you are gonna get' ]

Edited September 4, 2014 by rogerb

[Ghost Plane]

I suspect you're a finger-writer which shifts the nib angle more than shoulder-writing. Stubs and italics are quick nibs for note taking if your writing style gets on with them. But the corners will drive you nuts if your writing style wobbles the nib in all directions, in which case stick to ball tips.

[View from the Loft]

Ghost Plane and I share a liking for broad, edged nibs (I have no round nibs whatsoever on any of my pens). As she says, unless you can hold the nib consistently in the correct orientation, they will drive you nuts.

 

If you wish to enjoy the experience of writing with these wonderful nibs, I suggest that you invest some time and practise. Even just 15 minutes a day, if you work carefully will make a difference that you will notice in a few days. These sessions should be about accuracy and correct positioning of the pen and your hand. Don't ever try to work on speed, that will come when you have broken those less than optimum habits and formed good habits.

 

Don't give up on them - getting it right with these nibs will help your writing whatever the pen you are using.

[richardandtracy]

Yup, that's the advice I have, learn how to use the nib correctly then it'll work properly for you.

 

Having said that, if the nib is badly cut, it won't work for you regardless. My Duofold Centennial BI had a burr on the nib when I got it new, and there was no way I could ever hold it in a way when it wasn't going to be scratchy. Once the burr had been smoothed off (about 30 secs with some Micromesh) it became one of my regular users.

 

I do hope you get it sorted.

 

Richard

[View from the Loft]

Yup, that's the advice I have, learn how to use the nib correctly then it'll work properly for you.

 

Having said that, if the nib is badly cut, it won't work for you regardless. My Duofold Centennial BI had a burr on the nib when I got it new, and there was no way I could ever hold it in a way when it wasn't going to be scratchy. Once the burr had been smoothed off (about 30 secs with some Micromesh) it became one of my regular users.

 

I do hope you get it sorted.

 

Richard

Yep, I also had a BI for an Innternational Duofold that just should not have been sold. Parker's QC is just not good enough these days.

 

OP, don't give up - a good stub or italic nib is wonderful when it's the right nib for you.

[Dodobrains]

Thanks everyone for the tremendous amount of insight!

 

I've realised that I am a pretty fidgety 'finger' writer. Writing moar with my fingers rather than my wrist or arm, which probably contributes a lot to the problem.

 

I'm still convinced however that my TWSBI 580 1.1 mm stubb is scratchy regardless.

I've smoothed it with carefully through 5 different mesh grits (upto 12000). It's very temperamental and one small move can make it seem like I'm writing over sand.

When in a different position feels like butter.

[KBeezie]

Thanks everyone for the tremendous amount of insight!

 

I've realised that I am a pretty fidgety 'finger' writer. Writing moar with my fingers rather than my wrist or arm, which probably contributes a lot to the problem.

 

I'm still convinced however that my TWSBI 580 1.1 mm stubb is scratchy regardless.

I've smoothed it with carefully through 5 different mesh grits (upto 12000). It's very temperamental and one small move can make it seem like I'm writing over sand.

When in a different position feels like butter.

 

It's possible that without knowing how to write with a stub in general, that the smoothing may have impacted it even worse, since the micro-mesh is used to conform the surfaces to your writing style, which works very well when the strokes are at the proper angle.

 

That small move can either mean it's not aligned (which is a very bad time to use micro-mesh since you need it aligned before doing so), or you're turning the nib too drastically.

 

Do you find that it's really rough going in one specific direction? like to the left, or diagonal in one specific direction? Usually when it's smooth at some point but not others, that can be a sign of either twisting or misalignment (usually misalignment)

[Dodobrains]

I make sure to allign all my nibs before and after I do any kind of work on them.

 

Before smoothing, the nib had a terrible case of babies bottom and was very very scratchy.

 

I've fixed the babies bottom and the nib is much smoother now, except for a downward left diagonal stroke and some other instances.

I don't want to smooth it anymore for fear of another case of babies bottom.

 

I'll recheck the tine alignment, but I doubt thats it.

It was a problem nib from the beginning.

[Dodobrains]

I make sure to allign all my nibs before and after I do any kind of work on them.

 

Before smoothing, the nib had a terrible case of babies bottom and was very very scratchy.

 

I've fixed the babies bottom and the nib is much smoother now, except for a downward left diagonal stroke and some other instances.

I don't want to smooth it anymore for fear of another case of babies bottom.

 

I'll recheck the tine alignment, but I doubt thats it.

It was a problem nib from the beginning.