"standard" Vs "luxury" Brands

[artibasos]

like I said, I don't know much about MontBlanc other than they seem to be the "go to" brand for pens, like Rolex (incidentally, over on the watch forum, they don't consider Rolex to be "high end") for watches and Mercedes/BMW for cars. Granted I can still count the # of MB I've seen on one hand. I know exactly 2 people other than me that have Parkers (my dad, and someone at work has a Jotter).

 

Um, Mercedes definitely makes high-end cars... And, for that matter, Rolex makes high-end watches. It may not be perceived as high end to those who are very passionate about watches, but they do not determine what is high-end or not -- rather, a combination of the public perception (not the enthusiast's perception) and the price determine what brands are perceived as "high end".

[Koyote]

I think the challenge here is the fact you are saying "better pen" in your question. Luxury items tend to exceed the minimum functionality reuqured of an item, through materials, craftsmanship, or exclusiveness. Does that make them better? Depends what you, as an individual, value.

 

One of the things I really liked about economics as a social science is that it provides a framework where you can evaluate and rank decisions - the concept of utility. Once I know the parameters of my own utility function (say cost, material, customer service, bling, past experience with the brand, etc.) I can weight them appropriately and then optimize my utility given constraints (budget being an obvious one). So I can use the approach to order the world of pens. You can do the same. The problem is that your utility score cannot directly compare to mine. Two rational people can look at the exact same pen and come up with completely different rankings of where it exists in their "peniverse." That's why it is a socal science instead of a hard science.

 

We say that you cannot make intertemporal utility comparisons.

 

Milton Friedman (at least I think it was him) said it better: "There's no accounting for taste."

[Michigan]

The Luxury Strategy, by Kapferer and Bastien, was a revealing look at what is a luxury good and what is not.

 

Is a luxury good going to have a higher use value than a non-luxury good? It will have a very high use value, but not necessarily much higher than most standard goods. Hamlet was written with a goose feather, and I doubt it would have been better if a pave gold skeleton FP had been used instead. (I would posit, however, that Iroshizuku may have improved the experience for the author!)

 

But the goal of people buying luxury is to pursue their dreams. It is to exhibit taste rather than mere wealth. It is to demonstrate exclusivity. Is a Rolex a luxury good? Yes, in a way. Does it show you know anything about watches other than that you can scrape together X-thousand dollars to get one? No. But you have something over the guy wearing a department store watch.

 

When it comes to luxury pens, here is what I think. Pens must be crafted of valuable materials and made with care regardless of brand or date of manufacture. This excludes nearly every plastic, resin, celluloid, and steel pen. Why? Because there is no intrinsic value to these materials. You can argue that some Japanese pens made of those materials are luxury goods, though, because the materials become a mere canvas for the artisanal finishes they receive. I consider my Montegrappa Cosmopolitan and my sterling MB to definitely be in the luxury category. My Cross Townsend and a very nice resin FP I own are not.

 

And you have to be a pen company. To me, this excludes Cartier, Dunhill, Tiffany, and Louis Vuitton. These are great brands, but they lack authenticity in this field, some more than others. It is similar to the way Montblanc sells cologne at department stores--completely inauthentic. Authenticity takes much more to earn than to lose. Straying into fields with no knowledge of them does this in a hurry.

 

One last thing about who determines what is luxurious. Views vary. But my vote is that unsophisticated non-owners of that class of good are not at all tastemakers. What do I have to say about the relative value of Ferraris versus Aston Martins when I have never ridden in one? What do most Ferrari owners have to say about Palmer Johnson yachts when they likely don't know what makes them special? Taste is not democratic, and that bothers me. But like it or not, connoisseurs set the standard.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Michigan

[bbshriver]

 

Um, Mercedes definitely makes high-end cars... And, for that matter, Rolex makes high-end watches. It may not be perceived as high end to those who are very passionate about watches, but they do not determine what is high-end or not -- rather, a combination of the public perception (not the enthusiast's perception) and the price determine what brands are perceived as "high end".

 

Yes, Mercedes makes some high end cars, but they make cars that cover a full price range, in the US from under $30,000 to over $200,000. Compared to Rolls-Royce which start above $200k and go to $400k+ I've driven a Mercedes that retailed for over $100k, as well as a $225k Bentley, and been inside and out of a few Rolls-Royces and the $100k Mercedes, while a nice car doesn't compare.

 

You're right about Rolex in that I would definitely consider them to be "high end", however the 3 people I know with Rolexes are a temp worker, a mechanic and a drafter... Only one of the 3 was a "watch guy".

 

Anyway, the point is I consider part of a "luxury" item to be exclusitivity, and as I said MontBlanc is the one pen I have seen around, and I've been in a MontBlanc store. I've never seen a Cartier, ST Dupont, Dunhill, Montegrappa etc in person, never seen a store for them etc. Also, all the MontBlanc I see look like every other black plastic pen other than the snowflake on top.

 

All this is not to say MontBlanc is not an excellent pen... I've never tried one, I'm sure they're great, they just don't seem to me to be comparable to the others I mention. If you say a MB is better than or equal to a Dupont or Cartier, that's great, and maybe I'll look at them as well. I just have a slight bias against things that seem to be the "defacto" choice.

[bbshriver]

The Luxury Strategy, by Kapferer and Bastien, was a revealing look at what is a luxury good and what is not.

 

Is a luxury good going to have a higher use value than a non-luxury good? It will have a very high use value, but not necessarily much higher than most standard goods. Hamlet was written with a goose feather, and I doubt it would have been better if a pave gold skeleton FP had been used instead. (I would posit, however, that Iroshizuku may have improved the experience for the author!)

 

But the goal of people buying luxury is to pursue their dreams. It is to exhibit taste rather than mere wealth. It is to demonstrate exclusivity. Is a Rolex a luxury good? Yes, in a way. Does it show you know anything about watches other than that you can scrape together X-thousand dollars to get one? No. But you have something over the guy wearing a department store watch.

 

When it comes to luxury pens, here is what I think. Pens must be crafted of valuable materials and made with care regardless of brand or date of manufacture. This excludes nearly every plastic, resin, celluloid, and steel pen. Why? Because there is no intrinsic value to these materials. You can argue that some Japanese pens made of those materials are luxury goods, though, because the materials become a mere canvas for the artisanal finishes they receive. I consider my Montegrappa Cosmopolitan and my sterling MB to definitely be in the luxury category. My Cross Townsend and a very nice resin FP I own are not.

 

And you have to be a pen company. To me, this excludes Cartier, Dunhill, Tiffany, and Louis Vuitton. These are great brands, but they lack authenticity in this field, some more than others. It is similar to the way Montblanc sells cologne at department stores--completely inauthentic. Authenticity takes much more to earn than to lose. Straying into fields with no knowledge of them does this in a hurry.

 

One last thing about who determines what is luxurious. Views vary. But my vote is that unsophisticated non-owners of that class of good are not at all tastemakers. What do I have to say about the relative value of Ferraris versus Aston Martins when I have never ridden in one? What do most Ferrari owners have to say about Palmer Johnson yachts when they likely don't know what makes them special? Taste is not democratic, and that bothers me. But like it or not, connoisseurs set the standard.

 

You're catching my drift here! And I've never seen a sterling MB, that would be neat.. I have read a few places both related to Cartier FP and Cartier watches that they are underrated because they're considered a jewelry company, but actually make great products.

 

Overall I agree with your statements here, and was not aware that Dunhill was not a pen company, I thought they have made pens for quite some time. In your mind what would be the Rolls-Royce of pens?

[yamborghini]

I personally think it hits luxury when you start paying for the name, not the uniqueness, materials or functionality of the pens.

[ctt1wbw]

Well, with the name COMES the material. I can't see Jinhao or Noodler's making pens out of the same material that Montegrappa or Visconti uses. It's like saying that a Timex is about the same as a Rolex, just because they each have a minute and hour hand.

[bbshriver]

I personally think it hits luxury when you start paying for the name, not the uniqueness, materials or functionality of the pens.

To me that's the exact opposite of luxury.

Luxury (in the sense of a pen) is when you have something that is the best writing pen in the world, and then you add uniquness and materials. i.e. solid gold barrel, diamonds, etc and so on.

http://www.pensandleather.com/waterman-exception-precious-metals-solid-14k-gold-fountain-pen.aspx is an example. But that's a "luxury" pen from a standard manufacturer. There are other brands that only focus on the very high end, and I guess that was my question is a $12,000 ST Dupont going to be better made than a $12,000 waterman. Or would a 70's DuPont be better than a 70's 75. Or would a 50's MontBlanc be better than a 50's 51?

[Paddler]

Last summer, I came by a Parker 45. It was essentially free, included in a box of artist's supplies I bought for a song and a ham sandwich at a flea market. I was sorting through all of the paint brushes and found this pen. It cleaned up nicely, but I don't like it for some reason. It feels cheap. The barrel is a little too thin. The nib is stainless steel. Posting the heavy cap moves the balance a little too far back. The color is olive drab (wearing olive drab clothes for two years makes the color grow on you . . . kinda like a hangnail).

 

So this ugly pen sits in a cocktail glass with a couple of other fountain pens that I really like (Sheaffers with gold and platinum nibs) beside my easy chair. When I get an idea to write about, I look at this pen and think I will just write the ink out of it and then clean it up and store it away. I start writing with it and then I am hooked -- AGAIN. This pen writes so darned WELL. The feedback is perfect. The line width is perfect. The ink flow is perfect. The converter works perfectly. So I write the ink out of this pen and then end up filling it again. I dislike this pen and still can't bear to retire it, even though I have 80 more, most of which I like better. So I am a crazy writer with an ugly pen. Go figure.

Edited March 29, 2014 by Paddler

[mab52]

Other than a Montblanc and a Pelikan M800, I suppose everything else I have might be pedestrian fare. Branding is mostly marketing ( I spent about 5 years in advertising and public relations in NYC, so I could elaborate on the whole sordid mess, but I'll spare you the gory details.) I love my Rosetta Explorer just as much as my fanciest pens based on how it writes. My first vintage Shaeffer calligraphy pen cost me a $1.75 from the thrift shop and it's just wonderful.

 

The joy of writing well with a pen eclipses anything a particular pen might impart. It's the pleasure of writing that rings my chimes.

[Bananabender]

I believe we are getting our wires crossed here there are in my opinion three criteria that set a higher than average price for an object or service . Luxury , quality and exclusivity. An item can have one or all of these.

In motor vehicles of the last century I would class .

1Jaguar as a luxury vehicle but the quality suspect .Some of the models did become exclusive due to rarity.

2Mercedes a quality product that has a luxury end and some exclusive models

3Bugatti as exclusive .

All commanded a price higher than average.

Therefore in looking at pens you pay a higher price for one that has one of those attributes ,unless of course you are a mad collector likes most of us here. Montblanc imo caters to all three similar to a Mercedes.

Quality,I would say their nibs and construction are excellent.

Luxury, What other company has a service offering where ,if a current model ,they will for a nominal fee replace broken items irrespective as to how it was broken. Actually I believe they retain the clip and nib and replace everything else irrespective .

They also offer high end pens of precious metal or design but I would argue you are buying exclusivity for these in most cases.

I cannot comment on other brands but to say I have seen some pretty exclusive Montegrappa pens but I cannot comment on the quality.

Value is irrelavent.

Therefore when you want to buy a pen what do you want. A Camry ,that is functional and just goes and goes or a Lexus that has all of that and a bit of luxury.

[Michigan]

 

You're catching my drift here! And I've never seen a sterling MB, that would be neat.. I have read a few places both related to Cartier FP and Cartier watches that they are underrated because they're considered a jewelry company, but actually make great products.

 

Overall I agree with your statements here, and was not aware that Dunhill was not a pen company, I thought they have made pens for quite some time. In your mind what would be the Rolls-Royce of pens?

The Rolls Royce of pens would be a MB skeleton. My own question is this: With both Rolls and these MBs, under what circumstances are they appropriate in front of other people? You could be accomplishing things at the pinnacle of your life and not want to have an object with such a large presence define you. If you were a hedge fund founder signing a big contract with a customer, be it CALPERS or a narcotrafficker, do you bring this? Do you ride in a Rolls? Why take the risk the other party might be offended? How about signing a pre-nuptial with a runway model? To me, this amazing level of good is probably better savored alone. Frankly, I use a rollerball Cross Townsend with clients. Part of doing big deals is not screwing them up over extraneous details.

 

Perhaps it is hair-splitting, but both Dunhill and ST Dupont are lighter companies that had to look for new markets due to anti-smoking campaigns. Also, don't they only do cartridge converters? That says loads about who they are. Other firms have made these transitions, like Fendi expanding past furs and Hermes doing more than saddles, but many have not. Certainly a Hermes watch is not some pinnacle of horology. Neither is a pen from a firm that cannot see the need for a piston in the lineup. It is like a shotgun maker only doing boxlocks while being compared to Purdey's amazing sidelocks.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Michigan

[Moshe ben David]

Last summer, I came by a Parker 45. It was essentially free, included in a box of artist's supplies I bought for a song and a ham sandwich at a flea market. I was sorting through all of the paint brushes and found this pen. It cleaned up nicely, but I don't like it for some reason. It feels cheap. The barrel is a little too thin. The nib is stainless steel. Posting the heavy cap moves the balance a little too far back. The color is olive drab (wearing olive drab clothes for two years makes the color grow on you . . . kinda like a hangnail).

 

So this ugly pen sits in a cocktail glass with a couple of other fountain pens that I really like (Sheaffers with gold and platinum nibs) beside my easy chair. When I get an idea to write about, I look at this pen and think I will just write the ink out of it and then clean it up and store it away. I start writing with it and then I am hooked -- AGAIN. This pen writes so darned WELL. The feedback is perfect. The line width is perfect. The ink flow is perfect. The converter works perfectly. So I write the ink out of this pen and then end up filling it again. I dislike this pen and still can't bear to retire it, even though I have 80 more, most of which I like better. So I am a crazy writer with an ugly pen. Go figure.

 

I can understand what you mean. With the P-45 one of the issues is the broad range of materials used for the barrels and the caps. I have a P-45 Flighter that I love to use. Came across a P-45 from the used/vintage pages of an online seller and ordered it because the price was so attractive. When it arrived, the plastic barrels and plain steel caps just did not impress me. Nor did the balance in hand. So I returned them. But I will bet that given it was the same nib it would have written as beautifully as the Flighter. Just did not give me the impression of beauty. So back it went.

[Sasha Royale]

I have handled 14 karat gold flatware. I have dined with sterling silver settings. It was a wonderful experience.

The food didn't taste better for it. A Parker 75 doesn't write better for being silver.

 

I think of the more expensive pens as "jewelry". I have a couple. They are glorious. However, I have found no

fountain pen that writes better than a fully functioning Parker 51. Get one !

[wspohn]

Price will guarantee you enhanced aesthetics, but not always a better writer. I've had Parkers that wrote perfectly and MBs that had to be tuned out of the box.

Having said that, of the makes you mentioned, Dupont has an excellent reputation for nib quality in general, so I'd tend to go that way. Not sure what $100 buys you in a Dupont though. Not much I should think and the ones you'd get will be their cheaper models, so less guarantee of good performance than, say, the Parker 75, which had one nib quality whether the pen cost $25 or $2,000.

IMHO, a Parker 75 is hard to beat, and so is a 51 or a Targa.

[shuuemura]

My ST Dupont pens, Montblanc 149, and Pelikans (luxury pens in your definition, if I may) all had to be tuned out of the box before they would write properly. I must have spent quite a bit getting them to write properly.

 

In particular, the "fabled" ST Dupont pen quality has been disappointing. I baby all my pens and the Chinese lacquer has either chipped or dulled during the time I've owned them. My urushi-lacquered Japanese pens still look flawless, however. I've heard anecdotal reports on how the Chinese lacquer on ST Dupont pens was dropping in quality, and perhaps that's why the majority of their pens are now finished with synthetic lacquer instead.

Edited March 30, 2014 by shuuemura

[Blade Runner]

I haven't had many quality control issues. But theoretically I would much rather have a gorgeous higher end pen in need of adjustment that I love and would use every chance I got once it was adjusted than a cheap pen that wrote out of the box but wouldn't hold my interest. I've found that it can be a cost saving measure to buy the high end pen that you really want, one that is so good/interesting, that you aren't interested in looking for other pens, than buying numerous, cheaper, pens that just don't satisfy.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Blade Runner